2017 SG Standard

[Wild Bill 212]

After playing my new 'Black Beauty' for a few months, I have dialed all adjustments on it to get it exact to my prefs. I ended up being a lot thinner on the relief @ 7TH Fret, to my surprise. I can usually set my guitars up as follows: Relief @ 7TH & 9TH Frets anywhere between .010" & .015" using a nothched straightedge and set the action a li'l below 5/64THs Bass side 'E' and a li'l less than 4/64THs on the Treble side 'E',and the guitars are ready to ROCK !but not for this new BAD-BOY 2017 SG Standard. If I set it @ anything over .009" the neck gets spongy and the wider the Relief the spongier the neck becomes. In order to get the neck feeling really responsive, TIGHT, I have to get it dialed in around .006" @ the 7TH Fret and .007-8" @ the 9TH Fret and the guitar is where I want it to be, tight and responsive to bends, no dead spots and no buzzing. Then to check it : I capo the 1ST Fret and hold down Low 'E' @ 15TH Fret and the string is just barely above the 7TH Fret and when I check the High 'E' the string is just slightly hitting the Fret. Looking down the neck from Crown to Body there is the slight curve in the neck and it doesn't appear to be warping/twisting.

 

Anyone else getting this from there new 'SG'? I am just a little surprised @ the spongy-ness of the neck when having relief set over .010". it has never made that drastic a difference on any of my guitars.The difference in the way the guitar plays @ .006" and .012" is incredible and I could not listen to the guitar the way it sounded @ .012" setting. AND .012" is where the majority of people like Erlewine say the relief should be set @ the 7TH Fret.....BUT NOT MY NEW 'SG' Black-Beauty', NO SIR !!! The guitar is a dream to play and I even sold my 1979 'SG' Standard because this new 2017 'SG' Standard Trad is superior in every way to my old '79 'SG'. So much so that the 2017 SG Standard Trad I just bought was promoted to #1, surpassing my '94 NIGHTHAWK & '79 'SG' Standard and two other GIBSON's.

 

The neck relief does not change when left idling in its stand. Once it has been set it stays where it is at, SO FAR, and the Relief has not changed at all but it is only 3 months old. ANYONE ELSE have a neck relief situation like this ?Is it possible the neck has not settled in to the guitar yet? I hear all sorts of things about TREE's wanting to return to the forrest and twisting, BUT IDBI...I am thinking that this is just the beauty of the beast...and the guitar is a MONSTER, it is superior to anything I have ever owned. CHEERS BRO.s!

[charlie brown]

Don't know about the 2017's, but my 2012 '61 Satin Reissue is solid! I've never adjusted the Truss Rod,

on it, since I bought it. My dealer set it up, tweaked it, to my spec's, and it's never been touched since.

It consistently plays like a dream, and sounds even better!

 

Can't say that about (almost) any other guitar I own, of any brand! Except my '64 L series Strat! It's really

pretty stable, too! I'm (still) amazed!

 

But, to be clear, the guitars that do need adjustment, from time to time, don't need

a Lot! Just a tweak, mostly due to the natural fluctuations in humidity. Still, very

minor. I always figured, my Ric 12-strings would be the most finicky? But, they are

amazingly stable. Maybe I'm just "lucky?"

 

 

CB

[RockyA]

I have a 2016 SG STD Traditional. I have only adjusted the truss rod once and it hasn't needed anything else. I just put capo on 1st fret, put finger down on last fret of the low E string and turned truss rod wrench clockwise until the string being used as a straight edge had no relief and the neck was straight. I then just turned the truss rod wrench counterclockwise an 1/8th inch for relief, set the action at 12th fret at 5/64 for low E and 3/64 for high E. It plays like butter.....I'm pretty sure my relief at the 7th fret is less than your .006, in fact I know it is.

[Wild Bill 212]

I have a 2016 SG STD Traditional. I have only adjusted the truss rod once and it hasn't needed anything else. I just put capo on 1st fret, put finger down on last fret of the low E string and turned truss rod wrench clockwise until the string being used as a straight edge had no relief and the neck was straight. I then just turned the truss rod wrench counterclockwise an 1/8th inch for relief, set the action at 12th fret at 5/64 for low E and 3/64 for high E. It plays like butter.....I'm pretty sure my relief at the 7th fret is less than your .006, in fact I know it is.

 

Did you check the relief w/a gauge afterward? I did what Dan Erlewine (people seem to listen to him, so do I) suggests BUT the neck was intolerably spongy and the guitar sounded really bad @ .012" @ 7TH Fret. SO, to get the guitar playing "AT ITS BEST" I had to close the relief considerably, by half in fact of what Erlewine suggests (.006" = half .012")...and raise the action @ 12TH Fret ( just under 5/64THS Low 'E' & 3.5/64THs High 'E' to eliminate buzzing). I'm using the string gauge that came on the guitar: .46-.09's.

 

if you check your guitar right now: & you capo the 1st fret and Fret the Low 'E' down @ the 15TH Fret, and you check the space between the bottom of the low 'E' string and the top of the 7TH Fret, is there a space? If so, how much? same question for High 'E'. (This is a method I saw put up on the Internet by a guy claiming he is a GIBSON Final Inspector).

[RockyA]

Did you check the relief w/a gauge afterward? I did what Dan Erlewine (people seem to listen to him, so do I) suggests BUT the neck was intolerably spongy and the guitar sounded really bad @ .012" @ 7TH Fret. SO, to get the guitar playing "AT ITS BEST" I had to close the relief considerably, by half in fact of what Erlewine suggests (.006" = half .012")...and raise the action @ 12TH Fret ( just under 5/64THS Low 'E' & 3.5/64THs High 'E' to eliminate buzzing). I'm using the string gauge that came on the guitar: .46-.09's.

 

if you check your guitar right now: & you capo the 1st fret and Fret the Low 'E' down @ the 15TH Fret, and you check the space between the bottom of the low 'E' string and the top of the 7TH Fret, is there a space? If so, how much? same question for High 'E'. (This is a method I saw put up on the Internet by a guy claiming he is a GIBSON Final Inspector).

 

Don't know why you capo the first fret and then check at 15th. Dan Erlewine is full of it. I have his book too and used to use the .012 and guitars never sounded right. I measured as you said, but measurements don't mean much on Gibson set necks, Fenders you can use the spec relief measurements capo first fret and hold down last fret and measure gap at eighth fret. Anyway, I measure gap of .004 capo first and hold down 15th fret. Here is a Gibson custom shop setup link. It says to hold down top of second fret and top of 16th fret while in playing position and there should be just a hair gap between the 8th and 9th frets. To adjust neck,Gently adjust clockwise until the truss rod nut is just snug, turning in quarter turns, until the fretboard is straight and flat. When neck is straight, the low E string will run flat against the top of the frets. Then back off 1/8 of a turn counter-clockwise for slight relief. . Here is the link, and your guitar will play and feel like butter using this setup.

 

http://archive.gibson.com/backstage/tech002printable.htm

[Wild Bill 212]

Don't know why you capo the first fret and then check at 15th. Dan Erlewine is full of it. I have his book too and used to use the .012 and guitars never sounded right. I measured as you said, but measurements don't mean much on Gibson set necks, Fenders you can use the spec relief measurements capo first fret and hold down last fret and measure gap at eighth fret. Anyway, I measure gap of .004 capo first and hold down 15th fret. Here is a Gibson custom shop setup link. It says to hold down top of second fret and top of 16th fret while in playing position and there should be just a hair gap between the 8th and 9th frets. To adjust neck,Gently adjust clockwise until the truss rod nut is just snug, turning in quarter turns, until the fretboard is straight and flat. When neck is straight, the low E string will run flat against the top of the frets. Then back off 1/8 of a turn counter-clockwise for slight relief. . Here is the link, and your guitar will play and feel like butter using this setup.

 

http://archive.gibson.com/backstage/tech002printable.htm

 

 

LOL, You are the 1st I'v ever heard say that about Erlewine, but the .012" Relief setting he is telling everyone to use is not good for my new '17 'SG' STANDARD, not even close to good.I did not buy the book either.The capo on the 1ST Fret and Fretting the 15TH Fret and check the space between top of 7TH Fret and bottom of low 'E' string? I got that from a guy claiming he is a Gibson Final Inspector at the 'MEMPHIS' facility, and when using that method it produces a notched straightedge method of measurement of .005" @ 7TH Fret, so the guy was spot-on correct, as are you,IMO !

***OF INTEREST*** A new 2017 Les Paul STANDARD I just got has relief set at .012" @ 7TH Fret using Notched Straightedge method. AND that was out of the box....and I'll not be touching it like I did the 'SG'. The Les Paul plays well out-of-the-box,no need to adjust anything on it,BUT the 'SG' was 'MUSHY' at .012", so I closed the relief.....and its now crisper sounding w/more tension on the strings @.005-006", half of what Erlewine suggests.

I actually had the relief down to .004", as you mentioned yours is set at and that is where the guitar seemed at its best! BUT, I thought maybe it was too close and would somehow screw things up, so I opened up the relief a small bit to .006" and that is where I have left it. I hear all sorts of things about how the Truss-Rod should be adjusted sparingly, but GIBSON's own techs say its not true. It is there for a reason and as long as it is not snapped by over-tightening the TR can not hurt the guitar from being adjusted too often(they also said there should not be much of a reason to adjust it all that often as well, and there really isn't), which is exactly what I figured. I let the adjustment settle in for a few days and then re-checked the measurement and the 'SG' neck is stable @ .005-6".THANKS AGAIN, ROCKY !

[kidblast]

You really can't harm a neck/truss rod if you're adjusting things properly. Small increments is all it needs.

 

Neck relief isn't a one-size-fits-all measurement, I guess it's more so that the numbers are the "ball park" values to start from.

 

I like as little relief as possible.

 

Things do change from time to time since the neck is of course wood, and not impervious to climates. A slight tweak/reset of relief is usually common when there is change of seasons. If you have multiple guitars, you'll see that some necks move more than others. It's not that it's right or wrong, it's just the wood's reaction to the air around it. Electrics are somewhat involved but Acoustic guitars are even more vulnerable.

 

One good call for keeping guitars cased when not playing is the minimize the climate's effect on the wood. A good hard case is a pretty stable environment regardless of the RH levels in your home or where you store your instruments. But I digress..

 

After a while, knowing how your guitars play, you can usually feel when the relief needs to be reset. I don't think I've measured anything in a long while. If it feels out, I take a look by sighting down the neck from the head stock using the string as a reference point for a straight line, fret at the first and 14th/15th fret, and there you can see the gap where you normally measure.

 

a few tale signs for me are, too much relief, and the action feels a bit spongy in the middle of the neck, too little relief and notes are going to fret out in the first 3 or 4 frets. I can feel this immediately when I start playing one of my guitars I've not played in a few weeks. And from there, it's usually 1/4 turn one way or another and it's back.

 

PS: IMO only, Dan E. is a genius. he's forgotten more about setups, repairs and maintenance than most of us combined will ever know.

[rct]

I've been playing since 1971 and I've never measured action or relief on any guitar, not a one, many dozens of guitars in my life. If you have a guitar that is "spongy" and "mushy" and you can change that with a few thousandths of relief, good lord bless your ears.

 

rct

[Wild Bill 212]

You really can't harm a neck/truss rod if you're adjusting things properly. Small increments is all it needs.

 

Neck relief isn't a one-size-fits-all measurement, I guess it's more so that the numbers are the "ball park" values to start from.

 

I like as little relief as possible.

 

Things do change from time to time since the neck is of course wood, and not impervious to climates. A slight tweak/reset of relief is usually common when there is change of seasons. If you have multiple guitars, you'll see that some necks move more than others. It's not that it's right or wrong, it's just the wood's reaction to the air around it. Electrics are somewhat involved but Acoustic guitars are even more vulnerable.

 

One good call for keeping guitars cased when not playing is the minimize the climate's effect on the wood. A good hard case is a pretty stable environment regardless of the RH levels in your home or where you store your instruments. But I digress..

 

After a while, knowing how your guitars play, you can usually feel when the relief needs to be reset. I don't think I've measured anything in a long while. If it feels out, I take a look by sighting down the neck from the head stock using the string as a reference point for a straight line, fret at the first and 14th/15th fret, and there you can see the gap where you normally measure.

 

a few tale signs for me are, too much relief, and the action feels a bit spongy in the middle of the neck, too little relief and notes are going to fret out in the first 3 or 4 frets. I can feel this immediately when I start playing one of my guitars I've not played in a few weeks. And from there, it's usually 1/4 turn one way or another and it's back.

 

PS: IMO only, Dan E. is a genius. he's forgotten more about setups, repairs and maintenance than most of us combined will ever know.

 

 

 

I agree 100% with the 'spongy' (AKA 'MUSHY') characterization along with the generally thin sound of the guitar, ESPECIALLY on my SG's. I can tell immediately as well. I've had a very high opinion of Mr. Dan Erlewine, this being the one thing I'd have to say he was off on. I'm not a pro Luthier, but I did have an older Pro Luthier show me more than a few things over the course of a few years about 30 yrs ago....and I never forgot any of it and have done my own set-ups/minor repairs ever since.That Old Man Luthier told me how to refret a guitar in 10 minutes(a very important 10 minutes it turned out...)....and what he told me worked. I've only refretted a few guitars myself but one, my NIGHTHAWK STANDARD, the frets were so dented the guitar was unplayable.The binding and an old injury made the refet somewhat difficult/expensive and I did not want to pay more to refret the damn thing that what I paid for it, $550, in 2000......so I did it myself. Its not the sweetest looking Re-Fret, but the guitar is 100% playable again @ Gibson specs. I never got the chance to Thank the Old guy, he was the cranky old type, always as if he was too important to bother.BUT I knew ,that he KNEW, so I kept after him and watched him like a hawk......I'm just glad I did, Guitar repair work can get expensive and it is really pretty simple. No more difficult than tuning up an old '68 Firebird w/points & carbeurator....

 

BTW, do you know anyone that can put a binding a neck ? as IDK if I am daring enough to try that.......

[kidblast]

BTW, do you know anyone that can put a binding a neck ? as IDK if I am daring enough to try that.......

 

I might, located in central mass...

[capmaster]

As a variation on a song by Elvis Presley, my motto is: A little less neck relief, a little more action

 

Quite regardless of guitar model - insert any of the usual suspects - and string gauge - 10-46, 11-50 and 12-54 w/ wound G3rd, I find myself being in the same ballpark since decades - at least as long as fret wear is insignificant.

 

Anyway, neck relief has to be adjusted first since it is neither affected by action nor by nut slots. I use a capo @1st fret and fret @ the highest possible position below the neck heel. The length of the string portion varies with neck heel position and scale, and so does the fret closest to the centre between them. For instance, if I remember right, the fretted position is @ 13th on a Les Paul, Telecaster or Stratocaster, @ 18th on an SG with the typical "non-1970's" neck/body transition. What I find @ 7th respectively 8th fret is typically around 0.1 ... 0.15mm or 0.004 ... 0.006" and is usually fine for all seasons.

 

My personal string actions are around 2.15 ... 2.25mm or circa 0.085 ... 0.089" for E1st and 2.40 ... 2.50mm or circa 0.095 ... 0.098" for E6th @ 12th fret. This gives me virtually buzz-free vibration and a fat tone.

 

NOTE: All the data refer to a guitar in playing position and perfect in tune.

[Twang Gang]

I have an article by Dan Erlewine from Guitar Player Magazine written in 1994 that a buddy sent me years ago. In it Dan says neck relief at the 7th fret for a Gibson is Factory = .012", but his preferred setting = .004". He also says most factory setups call for some neck relief, but he prefers no relief when possible. So set the neck (with the truss rod)perfectly flat and if you have trouble with string buzz add relief as needed. He may have changed his opinion over the past 20+ years, but he used to recommend much closer to your results.

 

I think each guitar reacts differently to the environment when it comes to the need for truss rod adjustments. I used to have an old Les Paul (a '68 or older) and when I first got it I didn't know what a truss rod was. But I played it for almost 30 years and during that time I became dangerous (a little bit of knowledge is dangerous) and whenever I would sight down the neck or check relief that neck just NEVER moved.

 

I have had other guitars that need a slight adjustment usually after going from summer into winter, or winter into Spring/Summer when there is considerable differences in temp and humidity. Some are just more stable than others.

 

As long as you got yours where you want it, the action is what you like, and it stays in tune it doesn't matter what the measurements are - just play that thing.

[RockyA]

Wild Bill. I just got this response from Gibson Customer Care Today and they say Gibsons are set up with very little neck relief. Here is their email to me today.

 

Hello,

 

Set-up specs are the same for Les Paul’s SG’s and ES-335’s. Here is a link to a great article which provides instructions and specs for set-up: http://www.gibson.com/Support/Tech-Tips/Basic-Guitar-Setup.aspx . To set pick-up height, you first need to hold all the strings down at the 22 fret and then measure to gap between the bottom of the outside “E” strings and the top of the pole piece on the bass side and one the treble side for both pick-ups. For the neck pick-up, the gap on either side should be 3/32nd” and on the bridge pick-up, the gap should be 1/16th” on either side. Gibson sets our necks up to have very little relief.

 

 

Thanks for writing us,

 

 

 

Gibson Customer Service

1-800-4GIBSON

service@gibson.com

 

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[Wild Bill 212]

I have an article by Dan Erlewine from Guitar Player Magazine written in 1994 that a buddy sent me years ago. In it Dan says neck relief at the 7th fret for a Gibson is Factory = .012", but his preferred setting = .004". He also says most factory setups call for some neck relief, but he prefers no relief when possible. So set the neck (with the truss rod)perfectly flat and if you have trouble with string buzz add relief as needed. He may have changed his opinion over the past 20+ years, but he used to recommend much closer to your results.

 

I think each guitar reacts differently to the environment when it comes to the need for truss rod adjustments. I used to have an old Les Paul (a '68 or older) and when I first got it I didn't know what a truss rod was. But I played it for almost 30 years and during that time I became dangerous (a little bit of knowledge is dangerous) and whenever I would sight down the neck or check relief that neck just NEVER moved.

 

I have had other guitars that need a slight adjustment usually after going from summer into winter, or winter into Spring/Summer when there is considerable differences in temp and humidity. Some are just more stable than others.

 

As long as you got yours where you want it, the action is what you like, and it stays in tune it doesn't matter what the measurements are - just play that thing.

Thanks and RIGHT ! environment is a factor i.e. near a window, up in a plane etc.... I ended up leaving the 'RELIEF' where I felt the Guitar sounded its best, had no buzzing and no choked out notes and just felt its most playable.A surprisingly big difference between .012" & .006" on this particular guitar. I went back a few days later and checked it via Notched Straightedge and its @ .006". The only measurement I think is CRUCIAL to get right is the String Action at the 1ST Fret and that is really because it determines how soon you'll be putting a new NUT in the Guitar. My 12Th Fret is usually Buzz Free for my downstrokes around .080" or lower if I lighten up a bit.

The video with Dan Erlewine I watched seemed fairly recent, it was an ad for Stew-Mac's wildly over-priced Notched-Straightedge(a laughable $88).But he has probably had Grey hair for at least 25 years so it may have been an oldie, but IDK for sure. I like the Guitars he made for Johnny Winter, The LAZER is it ? DANG, that is an amazing li'l axe(wonder who has it now?) ! Before this internet thing came along that book "How to make your Electric.....", was a BIG help.

 

 

[Wild Bill 212]

As a variation on a song by Elvis Presley, my motto is: A little less neck relief, a little more action

 

Quite regardless of guitar model - insert any of the usual suspects - and string gauge - 10-46, 11-50 and 12-54 w/ wound G3rd, I find myself being in the same ballpark since decades - at least as long as fret wear is insignificant.

 

Anyway, neck relief has to be adjusted first since it is neither affected by action nor by nut slots. I use a capo @1st fret and fret @ the highest possible position below the neck heel. The length of the string portion varies with neck heel position and scale, and so does the fret closest to the centre between them. For instance, if I remember right, the fretted position is @ 13th on a Les Paul, Telecaster or Stratocaster, @ 18th on an SG with the typical "non-1970's" neck/body transition. What I find @ 7th respectively 8th fret is typically around 0.1 ... 0.15mm or 0.004 ... 0.006" and is usually fine for all seasons.

 

My personal string actions are around 2.15 ... 2.25mm or circa 0.085 ... 0.089" for E1st and 2.40 ... 2.50mm or circa 0.095 ... 0.098" for E6th @ 12th fret. This gives me virtually buzz-free vibration and a fat tone.

 

NOTE: All the data refer to a guitar in playing position and perfect in tune.

 

ELVIS, I LOVED THAT GUY !!! U know, NOT to be contradictory, I have always heard that measuremnts will be different when checking while standing in playing position and checking while the guitar is in a Neck Cradle, so one day recently when I had nothing better to do: I checked the 'RELIEF' on one of my 'SG's using both methods and it was the same in both methods.

[Wild Bill 212]

After finding the SWEET spot on this 'Black-Beauty, where it plays at its best, .005-6" Relief @ 7TH Fret,This 2017 'SG' STANDARD is ROCK SOLID....Relief may change a bit with the seasons's but two weeks between string changes and it is in the same spot as it was when I set it, seems ROCK SOLID and this GUITAR just may be the one I LOVE THE MOST !

[sbpark]

Every guitar is different, and will need to be set up differently. I know a lot of guys will set up every guitar to whatever measurements they think are ideal for them, others go by feel. I have a couple Gibson acoustics. One likes more relief, while the other seems to prefer an almost perfectly straight neck. I have my preferences of course, but also let the guitar dictate what it needs, or what adjustments allow the guitar to feel it's best.

 

And as it's already been mentioned, Earlwine does NOT recommend that much relief in his book. He likes an almost dead-straight neck. He lists the manufacturers spec along with his own, which is usually around half of what the manufacturer recommends. I've had nothing but awesome results using his tips and recommendations. For the person learning this stuff his information is priceless. Not saying he's the be-all-end-all, because there are obviously many ways and techniques to achieve the same end result, but to insult the guy and say he's rubbish is a bit harsh.

[Wild Bill 212]

Every guitar is different, and will need to be set up differently. I know a lot of guys will set up every guitar to whatever measurements they think are ideal for them, others go by feel. I have a couple Gibson acoustics. One likes more relief, while the other seems to prefer an almost perfectly straight neck. I have my preferences of course, but also let the guitar dictate what it needs, or what adjustments allow the guitar to feel it's best.

 

And as it's already been mentioned, Earlwine does NOT recommend that much relief in his book. He likes an almost dead-straight neck. He lists the manufacturers spec along with his own, which is usually around half of what the manufacturer recommends. I've had nothing but awesome results using his tips and recommendations. For the person learning this stuff his information is priceless. Not saying he's the be-all-end-all, because there are obviously many ways and techniques to achieve the same end result, but to insult the guy and say he's rubbish is a bit harsh.

 

 

Maybe not in his book,which I have only read bits of, but I can show you the EXACT video where Mr. Erlewine states to set the RELIEF @ the 7TH Fret to .012"......its a STEW-MAC advertisement for their ridiculously over-priced Notched-Straightedge. I have learned a few things from the guy, never bought any of his books though. I have never stated anything insulting about the Man nor did I state his advice is 'rubbish'. I actually do have one guitar that I set @ or near .012", its a 1994 GIBSON w/a Fender neck...the NIGHTHAWK...and its a ROCK SOLID GUITAR.