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What do you think?


Dave F

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Thanks for the kind words guys! It's a great guitar, and in very good shape. I bought it in 2011 for $5000, which was an incredibly good price considering it was all original (except two bridge pins) and only needing a couple of hairline dryness cracks to be glued, new frets, and an old jack hole plugged. A Guitar Center in Florida had just recieved it in a trade when I found it online. I don't think they really knew what they had, at least the seller didn't know the story behind the Banner logo. Wille Henkes made his repairs more or less invisible and it is now by far my favorite guitar. It has become very, very special to me, and I hope to be able to play it to the level of some of you guys on the forum one day.

 

By the way, if it is possible I would very much like to hear a soundclip of the guitar in this thread.

 

Lars

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Sorry to have missed this thread!

 

Congratulations on scoring a lovely, Kalamazoo Gals made guitar.

 

As others have pointed out, during the War, Gibson employed "running changes." The first issue Banners had the fancy, 7 ply rosettes and multiple purflings on top and back. Over the course of the next year, or so, Gibson began subtracting decoration, probably as a matter of economics and the availability of materials. As a result, there are a lot of Banners that, like yours, are transitional instruments.

 

Play it in good health!

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Good photos. . but you gotta get away from the spam-laden pop up land of photobucket! Was the last pic in the panel showing some evidence of a neck block stamp?

 

A good reminder from tpbiii about tuner placement being, what, further away from the logo on the earlier years?

Vintage Banner

See if this works

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Vintage Banner

See if this works

Yes, Dave- Flickr much better behaved than Photobucket, which wants to pop up some fairly gross click bait to whisk you away to who-knows-where. It almost looks like the photos have a bit more resolution on Flickr, too.

 

And you’ve come to realize the flip side to sharing the new arrival of a cool old guitar- people are going to want to hear it!

Let’s see what the luthe has to say when he gets a chance to look it over. If he thinks it could use a neck reset, then you’ll really hear all the guitar has to offer, once all the geometry of the guitar is right, any loose braces dealt with, maybe a new nut with nice roll-off, etc. Fred Oster, who does many of the instrument appraisals for Antiques Roadshow, once told me that a guitar fresh after a neck set needs some time to settle in before it gets it’s voice back. I figured this to be mere sales talk, until 10 to 12 months after it’s neck reset, the ’46 Southern Jumbo came to life with a clear sound I’d never heard from it before.

 

So yeah, I do believe in the whole glues curing, stresses of glued parts equalizing- thing.

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Fred Oster, who does many of the instrument appraisals for Antiques Roadshow, once told me that a guitar fresh after a neck set needs some time to settle in before it gets it’s voice back. I figured this to be mere sales talk, until 10 to 12 months after it’s neck reset, the ’46 Southern Jumbo came to life with a clear sound I’d never heard from it before.

 

So yeah, I do believe in the whole glues curing, stresses of glued parts equalizing- thing.

 

 

Based on my own experience, I agree with that one 100%. Not sure it makes any sense, but it seems to be true.

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Based on my own experience, I agree with that one 100%. Not sure it makes any sense, but it seems to be true.

It kind of snuck up on me. Wasn't expecting it, or looking (listening) for it. Fred O. is nothing, if not his reputation, which has been many years in the making. When visiting his shop once, he was gracious enough to leave me to try anything. . . when I offered my sincere thank you, his reply was "these guitars need to be played". Lock me in there some weekend.

 

mlm4X09.png

 

(above: brought the 12 fret Guild Orpheum to compare with '69 HD-28S, and 1935(?) Roy Smeck Stage DeLuxe)

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The rosette on my '42 also has an extra outer ring, in addition to the seven ply. So it seems the design was simplified as time passed.

You can see the ring here.

 

Also note, my guitar has a late style J-35 bridge with a short saddle. Gibson did some weird stuff during the war!

 

DSC_0186_zps85228b7a.jpg

 

Lars

Cool! I should get one of those.

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However this turns out, it'll be a great opportunity for you to hear if the contribution to tone of 75 year old wood and cured glue is stronger than the effect of any overspray or repairs under the hood.

 

Let us know if it's the original neck carve; also- that's what a guitar that's had a previous neck set should be expected to look like- lucky you, it's got a truss rod. Divot-free gumwood fretboard looks real nice, pickguard very cool, too. Will be awaiting your report- hopefully, with some natural light photos.

 

And since dreamin' is free, that requested sound clip would always be appreciated ; ).

 

If I get time I will make a few recordings tonight and compare them to the SJ and Legend. I'll also try to get Jamonn (luthier) to play it and record it.

 

From what I see it will need a neck reset, new bridge (it's been shaved down) and redo the crack on the back. I'll get his input. I know he has some real nice looking old Brazilian for the bridge that I gave him last year.

 

I need to get used to Flickr. It's a little different and from what I read, Verizon bought out Yahoo (which had the Flickr) so something will change with it.

 

 

 

 

 

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Cool! I should get one of those.

Not so fast, Turtle, a couple of those bridge pins look suspect.

 

Lars, good of you to include the when, and how much on your post. . . as much as we'd like to not hang numbers on guitars, it adds value for those here on the forum.

 

 

If I get time I will make a few recordings tonight and compare them to the SJ and Legend. I'll also try to get Jamonn (luthier) to play it and record it.

 

From what I see it will need a neck reset, new bridge (it's been shaved down) and redo the crack on the back. I'll get his input. I know he has some real nice looking old Brazilian for the bridge that I gave him last year.

 

I need to get used to Flickr. It's a little different and from what I read, Verizon bought out Yahoo (which had the Flickr) so something will change with it.

 

Also- does it look like a one piece back? Ask your guy, too.

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The rosette on my '42 also has an extra outer ring, in addition to the seven ply. So it seems the design was simplified as time passed.

 

You got me curious so I went and took a look at the Banner Gibson Registry. The '42 J-45s show that extra outside ring. The '42 J-50s do not have it. My guitar, of course, started out as a J-50 but acquired a burst when somebody down the line found that one of the book matched top pieces had been flip flopped. I hope JT chimes in.

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Lars, good of you to include the when, and how much on your post. . . as much as we'd like to not hang numbers on guitars, it adds value for those here on the forum.

 

 

I thought it should be noted that, while these are expensive guitars, they are still within reach of enthusiasts/players, and not comparable (yet..) to some Martins from the same period. On arrival here, my Banner cost me a little shy of two modern J-45 Standards here in Sweden. Some would think that is absolutely crazy for an old guitar, while others probably thinks it's a steal [biggrin]

 

Lars

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You got me curious so I went and took a look at the Banner Gibson Registry. The '42 J-45s show that extra outside ring. The '42 J-50s do not have it. My guitar, of course, started out as a J-50 but acquired a burst when somebody down the line found that one of the book matched top pieces had been flip flopped. I hope JT chimes in.

 

Indeed. The J-45s got that extra ring. It disappeared a few batches in, and then reappeared on the SJ.

 

I thought it should be noted that, while these are expensive guitars, they are still within reach of enthusiasts/players, and not comparable (yet..) to some Martins from the same period. On arrival here, my Banner cost me a little shy of two modern J-45 Standards here in Sweden. Some would think that is absolutely crazy for an old guitar, while others probably thinks it's a steal [biggrin]

 

And, the Banner will increase in value. Indeed, I'm confident that it has since you acquired it, thanks in no small part to a certain book. :)

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Indeed. The J-45s got that extra ring. It disappeared a few batches in, and then reappeared on the SJ.

 

 

 

And, the Banner will increase in value. Indeed, I'm confident that it has since you acquired it, thanks in no small part to a certain book. :)

 

 

Yes, your book has indeed helped spread the word, for which I'm very greatful. Do you mind writing another, say 3-4 books about Banners? [biggrin]

 

I'm not a good enough player to take advatntage of all the finer nuances of a guitar of this caliber, but I do appreciate it as sort of a holder of so much musical history. I use it a lot and has written my best (or least bad...) songs on it, at least that is something.

 

Lars

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And, the Banner will increase in value. Indeed, I'm confident that it has since you acquired it, thanks in no small part to a certain book. :)

 

 

Ahhh, so it is you we can blame for escalating prices. Just kidding. I really love your book. I knew from the get go that these guitars held a special place in history and time. But your book showed us how special a place they held. An amazing piece of scholarship. Wish I could write as well as you do.

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. . . yet it still sports the inner back gluing support strip that a book matched back would have- you know, Gibson wanting to keep things consistent:

 

aQRvtgf.jpg

 

 

Old habits die hard. Probably just did it when putting in the back bracing, and didn't stop to think whether or not it was needed. The person putting in the back bracing may not even have looked to see if it was one piece or two.It's Gibson.

 

Now, the question is what they did on the multi-piece backs during the banner era: extra back strips, or just the one down the middle. I'm betting on just the one down the middle.

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My 1944 Banner J 45 appears to have a one piece back, I must say it is one of my most favorite Mahogany guitars. It projects better than my '66 straight braced Martin D 18, my only Mahogany Martin. IMWO, Gibson has built the best sounding flat tops built with mahogany since the early 1930s.

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I'm not a good enough player to take advatntage of all the finer nuances of a guitar of this caliber, but I do appreciate it as sort of a holder of so much musical history. I use it a lot and has written my best (or least bad...) songs on it, at least that is something.

I've come to view these guitars not simply as musical instruments, but as repositories for cultural history. In my opinion, it's not about how well you play them (though you undersell your skills, Lars), but about whether you appreciate holding and playing these Banners. I know, Lars, that you appreciate and deserve your Kalamazoo Gals-made J-45. It's where it should be.

 

Plus, unlike a modern guitar, these things appreciate in value.

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