Jump to content
Gibson Brands Forums

Gibson Has Serious Quality Control Issues AGAIN !


Bluesy69

Recommended Posts

...Obviously written by a moron to be fair. 'the percentage is less than a third'...

Well, to be really fair, Yas Iwanade would have written his original text in Japanese; it is more likely to be the subsequent translation which is at fault...

 

Pip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well, to be really fair, Yas Iwanade would have written his original text in Japanese; it is more likely to be the subsequent translation which is at fault...

 

Pip.

 

Have you played the chambered 58RIs from back around 2012? What did you think of those compared to say a 2014 with a solid body same otherwise?

 

 

 

By the way its always surprised me how a 5A or 4A top goes on variuous LP models but not the RIs. The reissues as you know Gibson is careful there, usually using the words "figured" or "flamed". The ones I've seen run from "AA" to "AAA", although I have seen a couple owned by members here that would be "AAAA". So you can see why Gibson is sticking with words rather than grades. This is a nice top though I dont know I would call it 5 or even 4 definite 3.

 

 

http://www.gibson.com/Products/Electric-Guitars/2016/Custom/Standard-Historic-1958-Les-Paul-Standard.aspx

 

 

 

But they simply vary as you know. However look at these......

 

 

http://www.guitarcenter.com/Gibson/Les-Paul-Premium-Plus-2017-Electric-Guitar-Tiger-Burst-1500000032900.gc

 

 

Clearly they are consistent and in my RI search I came upon one in person.............

 

https://newyork.craigslist.org/lgi/msg/6175407655.html

 

 

Or for example be it quilt they too are consistent.

 

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/gibson-custom-les-paul-custom-5a-quilt-top-with-gold-hardware-electric-guitar?cntry=us&source=3WWRWXGP&gclid=COG30JfF09QCFYmCswodmvcExw&kwid=productads-adid^156403583515-device^c-plaid^265927224606-sku^J42689000001000@ADL4MF-adType^PLA

 

 

I think the answer is people expect a more consistent offering to 58-59 with its various degrees of tops as we discussed. But by the same token this is something people need to realize when looking at RIs they simply vary a great deal

 

 

That said the tops usually dont concern me very much but when you look at hardware pick-ups etc the situation changes. Hard for me to see a Richlite board for 7G or BB Pros for 4G.

 

That said even on the lower end such as the ES line in Memphis are for sure top consistent as we see with the latest Midtown Deluxe. Pretty hard to slight the Midtown for the price especially used. Or even with the Studios

 

https://newhaven.craigslist.org/msg/6185249426.html

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Have you played the chambered 58RIs from back around 2012? What did you think of those compared to say a 2014 with a solid body same otherwise?...

 

By the way its always surprised me how a 5A or 4A top goes on variuous LP models but not the RIs. The reissues as you know Gibson is careful there, usually using the words "figured" or "flamed". The ones I've seen run from "AA" to "AAA", although I have seen a couple owned by members here that would be "AAAA"...

I've only played one chambered re-issue. It was fine. Couldn't really say it was much different from a 'regular' R-I to be honest. It didn't even feel much lighter. The lightest LP I have played was at a Gibson-organised event in London many, many moons ago. It was a chambered Standard and it felt really weird; far too light and the neck-dive was horrible. OTOH one of my good mates (and fellow forumite) has a chambered Studio and, unplugged, it's one of the sweetest-sounding LPs I've ever played. Sounds just as good plugged-in, too.

 

As far as top-grading goes;

Until recently (two years ago?) Gibson almost always only used the terms Plain; A; AA and AAA grades for their tops. Occasionally - like in some of the links in your post - they would call something AAAAA but these instances were very rare and were for special runs. All grading was subjective and many people have had discussions here about whether their top was AA or AAA. The truth of the matter was that if Gibson decided to call it a AA it was a AA. If Gibson called it a AAA it was a AAA. End of story.

The normal practice was to mark the guitars in one of the p'up cavities. AA tops were marked as 'LPP' (Plus) and AAA were marked as 'LPPP' (Premium Plus). As an example;

 

ClassicLPPP.jpg

 

We could speculate as to the reason why Gibson don't use the fanciest tops for the R-I's. Probably because almost none of the originals had AAAAA-style tops and folks who desire a R-I don't want their guitar to look like it's more at home in a tart's bedroom than in a bar.

 

Pip.

  • Upvote 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I've only played one chambered re-issue. It was fine. Couldn't really say it was much different from a 'regular' R-I to be honest. It didn't even feel much lighter.

 

 

I have to play one with the custom buckers. Neck dive is a good point to check. That said in comparison its hard for me to tell between the chamber swiss and solid since I never used the same electronics in them.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...Neck dive is a good point to check. That said in comparison its hard for me to tell between the chamber swiss and solid since I never used the same electronics in them...

Neck-dive is something worth bearing in mind but I don't think it will be a common problem.

My experience mentioned earlier was, I suspect, a freak event. For the Gibson shindig I'm guessing they had deliberately selected an uncommonly lightweight Standard to show off what was the newly-introduced concept of the chambered Les Paul. My limited experience of chambered guitars since this one-off event has been the guitars are nothing like as light as was that first example. BTW using Grover tuners instead of Klusons can also heighten any neck-dive issue.

 

To be frank it's impossible (IMO) for humans to tell the difference between 9-hole and solid just by listening to them. There have been a great many arguments on this subject here but a few of us have made open-ended offers to anyone who thinks they can tell which is which in a blind test. No-one has ever taken up the challenge. I have two solid-bodies (RI's) and two 9-hole (1960 Classics) and I'd bet no-one could tell which was which simply by listening to their tone. They even weigh-in at almost the same weight varying by less than 4 ounces from lightest to heaviest so, neck profiles apart, they feel exactly the same into the bargain.

 

Chambered guitars are a slightly different matter. I haven't spent enough time with a chambered guitar myself to do exhaustive back-to-back tests but most folks who own examples of each say the chambered guitars are slightly livelier with a bit more 'sparkle' - whatever that means. As I said earlier one of the sweetest-sounding LPs I've played was a chambered Studio and it did seem to be a bit brighter-sounding when compared to my own Lesters. Hardly conclusive proof, I know, but FWIW that has been my experience.

 

Pip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

The weight of my Tribute, which is 9 hole and my Standard with the ultra modern weight relief seem to be about the same weight. I haven't put them on a scale to test.

 

Pip, or anyone else, what is the average weight of an R-I/Traditional, a Classic, Standard, etc? Mine seems to be fairly heavy but I have not weighed them. I just wonder if there's an average. I'm fairly certain you're going to say that they vary wildly from 9 to 15 pounds but just thought I'd ask.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

They vary wildly from 9 to 15 pounds....

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I don't really know for sure. All I can say is info taken from what I've read here on the forum and from what I've seen published elsewhere.

 

Looking at the sunburst re-issues currently listed at Mark's Guitar Loft, for instance, the vast majority - 25 out of around 30 or so - are in the 8 lb 10oz - 8 lb 15oz area.

Some are in the low 8's and a few are a fraction over 9 lbs.

 

LP Custom RIs seem to be around 9 1/2 lbs

 

The pair of chambered RI's they have are 7 lb 5oz and 7 lb 9oz.

There is also a chambered Standard which is just over 8 lbs.

 

9-hole and modern w/r I've seen mentioned here usually seem to be around the 9 1/4 lbs to 9 3/4 lbs mark.

The solid-bodied Trads seem to be slightly heavier. Most seem to be 9 lb 8oz to well over 10 lbs.

 

FWIW my two solid- and two 9-hole'd are all somewhere between roughly 8 lb 14oz and 9 lb 1oz.

 

But none of this is remotely definitive nor authoritative! Just stuff I've read.

 

Pip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Neck Dive" on a Les Paul??? Really??? SG's on occasion (usually with '50's style fat necks),

but I've never experienced "neck dive" on a single or double cut Les Paul. Weight relieved, or

otherwise. Maybe(?) I've just been fortunate, that way??? :-k

 

In fact, the only SG's I've ever played, that were "neck heavy" were the early 2000's SG Specials,

with the "crescent moon" neck inlays. Those tended to have very "fat" necks, and so were more prone

to neck dive. But, none of my current SG's have any neck dive, at all!

 

 

CB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

..."Neck Dive" on a Les Paul??? Really???...

Yes, CB, but only with that single, featherweight, chambered example I mentioned earlier. The Grovers weren't helping matters.

Actually, come to think of it, my old Epi LP Standard was rather neck-heavy, too. It also had Grovers. I'm not a fan of Grovers. I have them on one guitar but that's my D'Angelico Jazzer and I only ever play that beast seated.

 

By contrast my current quartet are the most comfortable, well-balanced LPs you could imagine. They hang perfectly. The difference is chalk-and-cheese.

 

I 'wear' my guitars a bit higher than what seems to be most players' preferred position and I also like the neck angled up quite a bit more than usual, too, so perhaps both those details added to the problem?

 

Pip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

"Neck Dive" on a Les Paul??? Really??? SG's on occasion (usually with '50's style fat necks),

but I've never experienced "neck dive" on a single or double cut Les Paul. Weight relieved, or

otherwise. Maybe(?) I've just been fortunate, that way??? :-k

 

In fact, the only SG's I've ever played, that were "neck heavy" were the early 2000's SG Specials,

with the "crescent moon" neck inlays. Those tended to have very "fat" necks, and so were more prone

to neck dive. But, none of my current SG's have any neck dive, at all!

 

 

CB

 

I have some neck heavy SGs, my 2014 SGM, 2015 SG Special and 2016 SG Special HP are neck heavy due to the tuners and on the 2016, where the strap button is. My 2016 SG CM Black is neck heavy due to the Floyd's locking nut but not nearly as heavy as the aforementioned 3.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Well think about this for perspective I usually just pick up a guitar and if the weight feels heavy I simply put it down. So on the other hand being attracted to light weight the neck dive should have been more witnessed by me. Thats not true. I have seen a few and owned one SG with a neck dive issue a black 99 Standard all stock with vintage light tuners and a ABR. Great playing and sounding but bad neck dive. I didnt know till I put it on and stood up and played it and took my hand off the neck and it almost hit the ground as the strap shoulder sliding is another issue at this point.

 

That said I dont see a major concern just a point of awareness that may not affect anyone that usually plays sitting down.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

are you always this bigoted or do you just save it for this forum?

I'm not a bigot. Why am I judged as one for telling the truth? I see the same on here all the time. Anything that isn't American is inferior. I know it's just my opinion, but we live in free countries and are all entitled to our view of things.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Guest Farnsbarns

I'm not a bigot. Why am I judged as one for telling the truth? I see the same on here all the time. Anything that isn't American is inferior. I know it's just my opinion, but we live in free countries and are all entitled to our view of things.

 

I would have avoided the sawn off shotgun type, indiscriminate attack on our American friends myself. I love that Americans feel free to be enthusiastic myself. I think us Brits are far to reserved when it comes to enthusiasm and positivity. The idea that they're arrogantly enthusiastic and that it's because the feel American is good by default is your opinion and has been by no means established.

 

However. You weren't bigoted. Bigoted is to be unable to accept another view. You didn't do that. You just just offered your own.

 

I'd have called you prejudiced and lacking of diplomacy but not bigoted.

 

Ironically, in response you've declared your opinion "the truth" which kind of is bigoted. These are, after all, matters of opinion, not fact, so truth is not really a concept which can be applied.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not a bigot. Why am I judged as one for telling the truth? I see the same on here all the time. Anything that isn't American is inferior. I know it's just my opinion, but we live in free countries and are all entitled to our view of things.

 

I'm not going to get in to a pissing contest with you over this Larry. Read what Farns said..

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I'm not a bigot. Why am I judged as one for telling the truth? I see the same on here all the time. Anything that isn't American is inferior. I know it's just my opinion, but we live in free countries and are all entitled to our view of things.

 

I certainly don't think people, even here in the US, feel that way about everything. I'm fairly certain most of us have things made in all different countries throughout the world. A lot of Americans do take pride in their work and creating things or doing things. For a great many, it's just another job to get money. As far as guitars go, I'm going to continue to buy Gibson guitars made in the US because I've had such great luck with the ones I have. But I also have a Sony TV, Samsung TV, and all kinds of other major appliances and electronics quite possibly produced elsewhere in the world. I quite like my Samsung TV and phone over other US made products. Good quality is good quality, regardless of where it's made, in my opinion.

 

You'll certainly find people in the US who have the holier than thou attitude and will only buy domestic made products. I'd think that's a fairly small minority these days. The issue is that many of those folks are fairly vocal about their beliefs as well.

 

I do think that the Gibson guitars I own are superior to other non-Gibson, non-USA made guitars though. Why? Because they're mine and I love them. There's probably "better" guitars out there in the world but mine will always be the best to me. That being said, I've also played some USA made Les Pauls and other Gibsons that I didn't care for at all, including an R0.

 

That's the difference between my opinion and the truth. Truth can be proven by fact and not just hearsay and opinion. Does a Ford break down more than a Toyota? I don't know because I've never owned either but I'm sure there's actual data out there. What a lively discussion.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I TRY to buy "Made in USA," whenever possible, IF the quality is (at least) equal, to that offered by other "Foreign" countries.

And, the price is within reason, etc.

 

BUT, I've never been opposed, to purchasing something from other countries, when I love the product, and/or the quality.

Guitars, or otherwise. My camera gear, is all German, Swedish, or Japanese! As to guitars, the amount of Gibson's I own,

is testament enough, to my love of their products. I admit, to being dismayed, at the continuing price increases, beyond

what seems "normal" or reasonable. And, I find it strange, that they require a Custom Shop, to make things the way they

used to, instead of just doing that, normally, without all the constant "historic," no..."true historic," no...collectors

edition historic, blah, blah, blah. And, of course the insane (to me) prices for said recreations. Is it because I can

no longer "afford" or justify, spending that amount of money, on a re-creation of a past cherished original line. Possibly,

but I (really) don't think so, as I simply refuse to pay that much, for ANY guitar..."historic" or not. My last Gibson

purchases, were my SG's, in 2013! They returned to the beveling and horn tapering, of my beloved early '60's originals,

and at a decent price point (all were between 1,200 and 1,500, at that time), and (in the case of MY purchases) flawless

in fit, finish, and performance. So, I'm afraid, for me it will be "used but not abused" Gibson's, from how on...IF, I

decide I "have to have" another one. Why I would, seems pretty elusive, right now. But, I've learned, a LONG time ago,

never to say "Never!" [biggrin] But, "horses for courses," and/or "whatever floats your boat!" We're all different,

that way, which is what makes it interesting. [thumbup]

 

CB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't have a problem with people being proud of their country or it's products and so they should. That doesn't mean that I buy other nations products if they produce the best. Regarding guitars, personally I'd buy American guitars and British amps if I was in the market for new gear.

 

On the subject of Gibson quality I only have one guitar with a defect (if you can call it that), my 2011 Les Paul Studio 60's Tribute, which has a slight flat spot on the maple top, as though someone sanded to much off, you can only see it if you hold it up to the light. I saw it when I bought the guitar but it played and sounded so good I bought it anyway.

 

 

Ian

Link to comment
Share on other sites

...What a lively discussion...

Not that the OP seems to care. Heaven forfend that I jump to the conclusion that he/she/it is a troll but;

 

Firstly;

They haven't been on the forum since 02:24 PM on the 8th of June; i.e. when they started this thread and made the original post.

 

Secondly;

A quick scan of the four posts started by the OP shows that he/she/it has never once made a follow-up comment nor one single observation by way of a reply. It's almost as if they have started some potentially contentious threads - nibs Vs no-nibs; Trad-line Vs HP-line; poor Gibson quality - in the hope that they might start an out-and-out bunfight.

 

Thirdly;

Looking at all 4 posts made by the OP they (claim to) have gone to a store to buy a Standard T and didn't like it.

Bought a Standard HP and didn't like it.

Sent the latter back for an ES-335 and didn't like it.

Bought the LP mentioned in post #1 here and didn't like it.

 

Can anyone else see a pattern developing here?

 

Anyhow...

My own experience is that the products made since Henry took over the reins are of a far higher quality than those I tried in the '70s and early '80s. In general the instruments built today are amongst the best Gibsons I've ever played but then again I've always tried out guitars before I handed over the money so it's hardly surprising I'm happy with all my charges.

The only guitar I've ever ordered on-line is my D'Angelico Excel. There is one small, slightly odd area of uneven staining in the (natural-colour) finish which might possibly be seen as an annoyance to some buyers but the guitar plays like a dream and the 'flaw' is only apparent to the player if he/she looks for it. Personally I couldn't care less.

 

Pip.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

My own experience is that the products made since Henry took over the reins are of a far higher quality than those I tried in the '70s and early '80s. In general the instruments built today are amongst the best Gibsons I've ever played but then again I've always tried out guitars before I handed over the money so it's hardly surprising I'm happy with all my charges

 

 

My experience also. [cool]

Link to comment
Share on other sites

I agree, with Pip's observations, and (overall) feelings about Gibson's products, nowadays. But, as with any

mass produced product, there are always "lemons" that should have never left the factory. Gibson is no exception

there. Maybe one reason is, that they now produce far more product, in a month, than they ever did, in a year,

back in the "Good Old Days!" With that kind of production volume, more "problems" are a given. Gibson is a

Corporation, and Stockholders need/demand the profit shares, from the greater numbers. "Money, money, money,

money...MONEY!!" [tongue][biggrin]

 

My personal observations, and/or wishes, as were stated earlier, in this thread, are just that...

Wishes. And, Not based in any kind of current reality. [biggrin]

 

 

CB

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

×
×
  • Create New...