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"Best" Les Pauls Trying to understand product lineup

#1 User is offline   NighthawkChris 

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 09:51 AM

I know this is a vague question, but which are the "best" LP's? Basically, which LP does Gibson consider to be their cream of the crop? I take it the custom is perhaps.

Another question is what is the Custom Shop all about? Is this where they make the "best" Gibson guitars (again, Gibson's intended Highest quality lineup)?

I own 2 beautiful original Nighthawk's from the 90's, a Jackson DK2M (came with Seymour Duncan JB's I believe), and an older Epi-Hawk (screwed on neck and a 5 way switch with a separate 2 way toggle switch that replaces the push-pull pot on original NH). Always loved the Les Paul tone and look, just want to educate myself more quickly by hearing form others who appreciate them and know the most about these pieces of work. I would like to get a feel for the models and understand what they are entailed with.

Overall, a lineup description and ranking associated with these would also be much appreciated to know which Les Paul is "better" than another. Thank you in advance!
Guitars I own:
* 1993 Vintage Sunburst Gibson Nighthawk SP3
* 1996 Fireburst Gibson Nighthawk CST3
* 1996 Translucent Amber (Korean build) Epiphone Nighthawk (ST3-like replica)
* 1997 Fireburst Gibson Nighthawk ST3 w/ Floyd Rose
* 2008 Snow White (Japanese build) Jackson DK2M Dinky

Amplifier I own:
* Peavy 5150 II w/ 4x12 cab
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#2 User is offline   Rabs 

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 10:49 AM





Yes the custom shop is considered the best (for like wood selection and possibly more experienced workers).. As for which is the best of the best.. Id say the Collectors Choice (or CC) line where they re-produce some of the original 59 bursts... Or the True Historics or what ever they are called now where they use some of the original tooling methods and plastics (apparently its molecular correct) and stuff like that.

http://www.gibson.co...es-Paul-Gr.aspx

http://www.gibson.co...l-Standard.aspx

However I will then say that the "best" is totally subjective... Every guitar no matter if its from the Custom shop or the USA line is unique.. Each one feels, looks and plays slightly different.. So paying more for a guitar doesn't mean its going to feel any better in your hands if it has a thinner or fatter neck than suits your style. You could find many USA models you like and don't like AND probably just as many Customs you like and don't like.. So as always the best advice, especially if you are willing to pay out a lot is to go and play as many as you can. It really is the ONLY way to find whats best for you. What we think is irrelevant.
"Im the one thats going to have to die when its time for me to die. So let me live my life, the way I WANT TOO" Jimi Hendrix
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#3 User is online   MichaelT 

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 10:55 AM

I think this is going to be a subjective question and answers are going to differ. The biggest question is: What's your budget? This will determine which model fits and what you can afford. The next question is new or used?

This is the 2017 lineup:

http://www.gibson.co...s/2017/USA.aspx

In the Gibson USA line, you have:

1. Les Paul Standard T - This is their flagship model, AAA top ultra modern weight relief, slim taper neck, locking tuners, Burstbucker Pro pickups, push pull pots for coil split, out of phase and bypass. I love mine. $2799.00
2. Les Paul HP (High Performance) - Same as Standard but with auto-tuners, carved out heel for high fret access. Some love it, some don't. $3199.00
3. Les Paul Traditional - No weight relief, rounded neck, AA top, Burstbucker 1 and 2 pickups. It's more of a traditional Les Paul than the new Standards with latest upgrades. $2299.00
4. Les Paul Classic - 9 hole weight relief, '57 pickups, slim taper neck, plain top. $1999.00
5. Les Paul Studio - Ultra modern weight relief, 490/498 pickups, slim taper neck, plain/painted top, no binding. $1499.00
6. Les Paul Tribute - Same as Studio but with 9 hole weight relief, vintage look without binding. I have one of these as well and love it too. It plays and feels like my Standard, without the pretty top. $999.00
6. Les Paul Faded - Ultra modern weight relief, 490 pickups, faded/worn finish. This is the lower end. A friend of mine has one and it's nice but this compared to the Tributes I've played, the Tributes are better. $899.00

These are also available in the high performance model and they're about $300.00 more for the HP version.

The Customs are a whole other animal and you can get them with a variety of features, finishes, reissues, etc. You'll be paying two or three times as much for these models. I've played some Customs I loved, some not so much. I can't justify the additional expense for one of those models, even though they're fantastic.

http://www.gibson.co...016/Custom.aspx

They're all Les Pauls. The difference in them are the different features, tops, bindings, weight relief, neck, pickups, tuners, etc. The more you pay, the more you get. I love my 2017 Standard and my 2017 Tribute. The Tribute is a Goldtop and it has P90 pickups vs. humbuckers. But, playing without going through the amp, they feel the same as far as the neck and quality and playability. I've played the others after getting my Standard and I love it the best out of them all, so far. There was a 70's or early 80's Custom I played back in the early 80's and it was, by far, the nicest guitar I have ever played. It's a shame I couldn't afford it at the time.

If you go to the links I posted, they go into great detail what the specs are for the guitars in their 2017 lineup. And, if you read a lot through the threads here, particularly in the Lounge or Les Paul area, you can see pictures, read various threads with various information and questions asked and answered. I'm no expert on all the differences, feel and sound but as soon as I picked up my Standard, I knew it was coming home with me that night. I like to hold them and play them before buying them and I recommend doing the same. I did buy the Tribute online after playing another Tribute at a store.

All that being said, members here have praised their Studios, Classics, and Traditionals as well as their Standards. I'm probably leaving out a lot, which is why I posted links as well.
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#4 User is offline   NighthawkChris 

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 12:05 PM

Wow guys, pretty quick answers! I sincerely appreciate your explanations. I just want to get an idea to understand the models and cost associated with them so I don't go into a shop and pay an exorbitant amount of money for something that is not worth it. I get it, this is art... To get great sounding instrument need not spend extra thousands for something like LP. People who buy LP's like the looks as much or more than the tone it can provide I gather. Hey, artists aren't the most logical, haha! Nonetheless, if something makes someone happy, then go for it IMO. To that right, why do people collect coins, stamps, etc.? If it's one's passion in life, then pursue it. I appreciate the craft of the LP as that video touring the factory previewed for me (thanks for that BTW). I know a little more about pianos as I play piano and guitar. I am fascinated with watching a Steinway grand become crafted to masterpiece. That's there and then, but the idea is I suppose I go for quality buys when I purchase high ticket items. If I get a bound body, neck, and headstock with other ornaments like pearl inlays or ebony fretboard, that makes something more aesthetically pleasing to the eye, hence why not pay the extra money even if it is something I like to look at (although I would play my guitar)? People spend tons of money on paintings... Guitar making is a beautiful craft, and Gibson does wonderful job making very inspiring instruments for the musical artist. And from my experience of listening to others' LP's I have had chance to hear is that they have a nice distinct rich tone. I own 2 Gibson Nighthawks from the 90's, but I was possibly interested in looking into a LP for my collection. On the side note, I initially preferred the NH because of the size and weight - I'm not big guy, but I loved the tone and aesthetics of this style of guitar. I also used to have an SG years ago, and I loved that guitar as well. There just came a time where we had to part ways. Nonetheless, NH's were good replacement for me - EXTREMELY happy with these guitars. I suppose I will always have affinity for Gibson guitars. I usually like to go on the used market as well, that way they come broken-in a bit and typically have a few nicks in them so I am not afraid to pick it up and play it :-) I know there are plenty for sale these days. Knowing which Les Pauls are which helps me find one that is just right for the right amount of money. But agreed with the point that I should go out and play as many as I can before selling myself on any particular Les Paul - not a price tag!
Guitars I own:
* 1993 Vintage Sunburst Gibson Nighthawk SP3
* 1996 Fireburst Gibson Nighthawk CST3
* 1996 Translucent Amber (Korean build) Epiphone Nighthawk (ST3-like replica)
* 1997 Fireburst Gibson Nighthawk ST3 w/ Floyd Rose
* 2008 Snow White (Japanese build) Jackson DK2M Dinky

Amplifier I own:
* Peavy 5150 II w/ 4x12 cab
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#5 User is offline   Rabs 

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 12:20 PM

What we can do is help narrow things down for you in terms of neck size and what sort of music you want to play..

Gibson have fatter 50s necks and thinner 60s necks which can make a huge difference for some.. Some people can play both happily.. and then theres pickups.. You get higher and lower output pickups which can be useful if you play a specific type of music.

But yes.. Playing as many as you can, you will soon find out exactly what you like and don't like and it is WELL worth the effort when you find one that really speaks to you.

Well good luck on the hunt.. and feel free to ask more...

And of course we will expect to see pictures when you find your one ;) [thumbup]
"Im the one thats going to have to die when its time for me to die. So let me live my life, the way I WANT TOO" Jimi Hendrix
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#6 User is offline   NighthawkChris 

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 12:52 PM

View PostRabs, on 20 July 2017 - 12:20 PM, said:

What we can do is help narrow things down for you in terms of neck size and what sort of music you want to play..

Gibson have fatter 50s necks and thinner 60s necks which can make a huge difference for some.. Some people can play both happily.. and then theres pickups.. You get higher and lower output pickups which can be useful if you play a specific type of music.

But yes.. Playing as many as you can, you will soon find out exactly what you like and don't like and it is WELL worth the effort when you find one that really speaks to you.

Well good luck on the hunt.. and feel free to ask more...

And of course we will expect to see pictures when you find your one ;) [thumbup]


You got it brother! I will surely post my new LP images. I think I will play some and see which one speaks to me.

As for my particular taste in style, it is difficult to say. I like the typical, jazz, blues, rock... Anything other than rap and most modern pop (OK, I'm an old guy here, haha). I even get into heavy metal as it has some classical roots to the compositions. I also appreciate Baroque, Classical, and Romantic music as I am piano player as well. I own Boston UP126-PE currently (not enough room for the grand in my house). When I started playing guitar at 14 years old, I knew how to read sheet music (bass and treble clef). I had advantage you might say to typical beginner in terms of being jump-started on the theory and such. Nonetheless, I have played piano since age 9 and can play some advanced pieces today. I find it that practicing one instrument helps me play the other and vise versa. Guitar and piano are both dynamic and inspiring instruments to play. They can "cleanse" the soul very well if you follow what I am saying here. I cannot live without music as it is my passion and part of who I am.

As being new to forum, how do I post an image - meaning do I have to hide the Gibson logo or something like that? Just want to be clear on the rules. I didn't read the fine print when I joined :-)
Guitars I own:
* 1993 Vintage Sunburst Gibson Nighthawk SP3
* 1996 Fireburst Gibson Nighthawk CST3
* 1996 Translucent Amber (Korean build) Epiphone Nighthawk (ST3-like replica)
* 1997 Fireburst Gibson Nighthawk ST3 w/ Floyd Rose
* 2008 Snow White (Japanese build) Jackson DK2M Dinky

Amplifier I own:
* Peavy 5150 II w/ 4x12 cab
0

#7 User is online   MichaelT 

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 12:58 PM

If money is an issue and you'd rather not start with the top of the line at $2000 to 3000.00, I'd recommend looking at the Tribute or Studio and play a few of them. I really love my Tribute and it's a Goldtop. They play and feel like a Standard without all the frills. They're a good solid Les Paul and a great deal for around $1000.00. Definitely play as many as you can because you can play 30 of them and find that one you really love. I can't wait to hear about what you end up with and see the pictures.

Good luck in your quest!
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#8 User is offline   charlie brown 

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 03:10 PM

Yeah, that's pretty subjective. For me, the "Best" Les Paul, is always the one I play the most, for whatever reason.
I Love all my Gibby's, Les Paul's, SG's, Lucille, even my old 1954 J-160! For various reasons. I tend to play my
TV yellow double cut LP Special P-90 "faded" and/or my Satin '61 SG reissue, the most. But, when I drag out one of the
other's I'm always smiling, and thinking "Man, I should play THIS one, a lot more!" So, I'm afraid I have no absolute
answer, to that "Best" question.

Sorry.... [tongue]


CB
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#9 User is offline   Rabs 

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 05:42 PM

View PostNighthawkChris, on 20 July 2017 - 12:52 PM, said:


As being new to forum, how do I post an image - meaning do I have to hide the Gibson logo or something like that? Just want to be clear on the rules. I didn't read the fine print when I joined :-)

No.. no real rules when it comes to that. The only real rules on here is don't talk politics or religion.... :)

And for posting pics.. What most of us do is upload to a photo image hosting site, we used to use photobucket but they stopped all that.. So now a lot of us are using http://imgur.com/ upload to there and use the BB code it gives you and copy that directly in to your post...

Also if you want light.. Theres a really cool LP Memphis.. Its built more like a semi hollow using laminates.. Check this


Ohh and by the way.. One last thing. When you go trying them in the shops make sure you use the same or a similar amp to what you have at home...
"Im the one thats going to have to die when its time for me to die. So let me live my life, the way I WANT TOO" Jimi Hendrix
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#10 User is offline   Larsongs 

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Posted 20 July 2017 - 11:53 PM

I would have thought a Vintage 1959 with original PAF's.

Other than that I think it gets subjective. Although many say some of the the 90's & 2000's are some of the best ever.

I have a 2001 Gibson LP Std Plus AA & a 2013 Gibson LP Jr. special w/P90's that are pretty amazing Guitars.

Lars
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#11 User is offline   'Scales 

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 12:56 AM

View PostLarsongs, on 20 July 2017 - 11:53 PM, said:

I would have thought a Vintage 1959 with original PAF's.


Hell yeah! [thumbup]
you could go and have a bite and you'd still be hearing that one sustain!
we had longer ways to go, but no matter, the road is life.

a few of my songs from first ever gig for originals band
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#12 User is offline   NighthawkChris 

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 08:55 AM

Excellent feedback on this topic. I sincerely appreciate it from everyone who participated to spend their time to reply for the sake of the Gibson user community. I understand that everyone has their personal preference, and rightfully so. Prior to posting, I simply had no in-depth knowledge about Les Paul's prior to starting this topic, but now I am getting better sense of this wonderful piece of art. Typically, I have been Nighthawk guy (hence my user name as I own 2 Gibson NH's and an Epiphone NH - love them all to death), but one day, I really want to get my hands on a rich sounding LP masterpiece. I figure I would have to spend around a few thousand for something that is truly beautiful in tone and design. I have no issue with spending money for fine craftsmanship - just want to be sure I am not overspending.

When I looked at what piano I wanted to buy, they don't list prices for them online :-) You get quotes and it's almost analagous to buying a car. Regardless, they are in the $14.5k range what I was targeting. My Boston UP126 PE is absolutely worth it 100%. Steinway designed, Kawai built piano. SOOOO beautiful. Luckily, I can play it very well too instead of looking at it all day. Basically, I am seeing if my logic how I went about looking into pianos applies here to a LP purchase. I figure that if I want to pay for great craftsmanship, I want to be more educated on the lineups.

What I have learned is that the Custom shop is the holy grail for Gibson aficionados of all types. The USA models per Gibson are less valued comparatively, not to balk at the quality, but Gibson feels their best guitars are coming from this Custom Shop. We all know Epiphones are the lowest ranked (per Gibson). This is pretty standard whether you like SG's, Firebirds, Explorers, NH's (of course...), and even LP's. Nonetheless, I still agree that I need to play more of them to get best idea what inspires me most. I figure since I have been playing guitar/piano now for almost 30 years, it is time to spoil myself a little, haha! I will take my time to calculate my purchase. Perhaps I run into a used one that is making a deal I CAN'T refuse :-) Please correct me if I have a misconception on this notion. Thank you all again for the wonderful advice!
Guitars I own:
* 1993 Vintage Sunburst Gibson Nighthawk SP3
* 1996 Fireburst Gibson Nighthawk CST3
* 1996 Translucent Amber (Korean build) Epiphone Nighthawk (ST3-like replica)
* 1997 Fireburst Gibson Nighthawk ST3 w/ Floyd Rose
* 2008 Snow White (Japanese build) Jackson DK2M Dinky

Amplifier I own:
* Peavy 5150 II w/ 4x12 cab
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#13 User is offline   Larsongs 

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 09:33 AM

If you're buying new a Custom Shop would be great. But that doesn't mean you can't buy a great Gibson off the rack. Or Epiphone for that matter. Some of the Epi Pro Series are pretty amazing Guitars. Like some the Dot 335 Pros & Casino's. (Probably other models too.)

However, if you are looking for Holy Grail you aren't looking for new. You're looking at the period around 1959 with Original PAF HB's. Particularly LP's & 335's. Many of those are true Holy Grail Guitars. Gibson, and many others, have been trying to replicate them for years & some come close. But none of the new ones have succeeded 100% in getting the Sound of those Original Holy Grail PAF equipped Gibson PAF Guitars.

If you've ever owned one you know what I'm talking about.

Good luck on your Quest,

Lars
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#14 User is online   MichaelT 

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 09:46 AM

Chris, good luck in your search. Definitely play as many as you can and get a feel for the one you like best. The Custom Shop reissues are fantastic and great choices if you're going to be spending $5,000 - 10,000 or more. Do you have any good stores in your area that carry Custom Shop Gibsons or the Gibson USA range? I've only played a couple reissues and they were great. But, I like my Standard more than the ones I've played. Definitely check them out when you can and DEFINITELY post pictures once you find "the one." Good luck in your search and feel free to ask questions as you become better informed or would like opinions and other information. Welcome to the forums.
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#15 User is offline   NighthawkChris 

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 11:31 AM

Thanks again everyone for the insight as I do sincerely appreciate all the assistance. I will definitely not hesitate to ask questions I find necessary to ask.

I do have some guitar shops around my residence that have a good selection to help evaluation go through its process. I hope to get myself out of the house when my wife and kid permit me to :-) I am sure I can get a good sample size to help the cause for deciding which LP to pick up.

On the side note, when I am thinking of a LP in my "memory banks", I picked up my (then) guitar player's LP which was a Studio. Very, very pretty, but I gather these are the "low end" (not to diminish in any way whatsoever) LP's. That's beside the point as the thing played so awesome. Screaming tone, easy play-ability (effortless fretting to get exemplary sustain), and come on, looks like a piece of art, and that's why I am being inquisitive about this because if the Studio sounded that good and looked that beautiful, then what else can these guitars do... When you can feel the vibrations of the strings singing in your hands, you need that! It was a pretty wine red - my favorite color. I believe that this was my turning point to "why don't I have a LP?" Been haunting me ever since. Either way, he had a couple LP's, and I only tinkered with his Studio, but I believe he had a Standard too. That's why I think his "horse" was the Studio for rehearsals and the Standard for performances. He's a good friend still, but he continues to play in another band. One awesome guitarist if I don't say so myself. God, the tone he got from that Studio with his retro Fender amp was just F'n killer!

I love both of my 90's NH's - never will I part ways with these, but I think my heart has enough room to let a LP into it. IMHO, I think Gibson makes the best guitars of all time. No one will deter me from this opinion. You might call me a Gibson fan boy, hahaha! I don't care, I am a man who knows what he wants. I can't wait to show you guys what I come up with as my LP choice. I promise it will be a good one :-)
Guitars I own:
* 1993 Vintage Sunburst Gibson Nighthawk SP3
* 1996 Fireburst Gibson Nighthawk CST3
* 1996 Translucent Amber (Korean build) Epiphone Nighthawk (ST3-like replica)
* 1997 Fireburst Gibson Nighthawk ST3 w/ Floyd Rose
* 2008 Snow White (Japanese build) Jackson DK2M Dinky

Amplifier I own:
* Peavy 5150 II w/ 4x12 cab
0

#16 User is offline   charlie brown 

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 11:40 AM

Well, by your own admission, and seeking of "Art," without trying to prejudice you, in any way, if you have the financial
means, the Custom Shop is the way to go! Gibson USA makes excellent versions, as well, but at a more "affordable" price
point.

But, the "Holy Grail" of NEW Gibson's would be the Custom Shop versions. In fact, IF/When you figure out exactly the features
you love, or require, you can have one built specifically for you! No need to (only) shop off the rack, Custom Shop, or otherwise.
That's one of the features of the Custom Shop, is to build Custom ordered, guitars. Custom features and/or spec's, colors, tops, etc.!

Just be as picky as you were, with your piano, to get the Best one, for you, from said Custom Shop. They ALL differ slightly,
regardless.

Good Luck!

CB
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#17 User is offline   Rabs 

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 03:55 PM

Yes this is true.. They offer what is called the Made to Measure program where you can get exactly what you want.. But obviously that's gonna cost.


"Im the one thats going to have to die when its time for me to die. So let me live my life, the way I WANT TOO" Jimi Hendrix
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#18 User is offline   'Scales 

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 04:15 PM

View PostRabs, on 21 July 2017 - 03:55 PM, said:

They offer what is called the Made to Measure program where you can get exactly what you want.. But obviously that's gonna cost.


Mainly based on the cap and pickups chosen?....or the VOS work?
we had longer ways to go, but no matter, the road is life.

a few of my songs from first ever gig for originals band
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#19 User is offline   Rabs 

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 04:21 PM

View Post'Scales, on 21 July 2017 - 04:15 PM, said:

Mainly based on the cap and pickups chosen?....or the VOS work?

As far as I know its what ever you want.. Aging, special graphics, certain woods and pickups... But obviously within some sort of reason :)

Check out some of the stuff on the Gibson Custom Shop facebook page.. Some real nice stuff
https://www.facebook...279380565407432
"Im the one thats going to have to die when its time for me to die. So let me live my life, the way I WANT TOO" Jimi Hendrix
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#20 User is offline   'Scales 

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Posted 21 July 2017 - 04:28 PM

I like the idea. To me that's more what a Custom Shop should be. The 'regular' CS lines could be called Premium, or Pro-built or something, and have CS refer instead to customer requested special orders.
we had longer ways to go, but no matter, the road is life.

a few of my songs from first ever gig for originals band
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