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The driest of dry vs the warmest of warm


Lars68

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I like to pick strings for my guitars as to pull them as far apart as possible and highlight their strengths, not necessarily to make them sound their individual best. With this strategy in mind, I put nickel/bronze on my old Banner J-45 to make it as dry sounding as a dried-out desert lake. On the warm sounding Martin D-28 Marquis, I put silk wrapped Thomastik Spectrums to make it sound as warm as the rain forrest [biggrin]

 

Here are two versions of the same song recorded in the same manner, but with two very different sounding guitars.

 

Martin:

https://soundcloud.com/lars1968/red-dirt-of-dixie-new

 

Gibson:

https://soundcloud.com/lars1968/red-dirt-of-dixie-2

 

I prefer the sound of the Gibson for this song. The treble just sings. The song with the Martin is perhaps a somewhat better performance, by my shakey standards, but the guitar does not cut as well.

 

Which guitar do you prefer?

 

Lars

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I know this is a Gibson site but I would run into my house if it was on fire to save my D-28. Ain't nothing like a Martin Acoustic.

Well of course, different strokes for different folks.

 

I've owned Martins since the late '70s & currently have a couple that I like quite a bit, but in general I find them to be rather boring - especially the square shouldered dread body, which aesthetically to me is sort of like the "plumber's butt" of guitars.

 

The typically punchy & dry sound found in many Gibsons works much better for my fingerpicking technique. The large number of short-scale models & a more pronounced fretboard radius are other important factors.

 

Guess I'd be running into the house to save my J-185.

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I love both Gibson and Martin, but my absolute favorite guitar is my 1942 J-45. It has a dry, punchy sound, with a thundering low E. Unfortunately, with the recording gear I have (Apogee mic + iPad), I find it very hard to record this guitar. The recordings tend to have a shrillness to them, that is not there in real life. The first recording above, is not that bad, but there are still hints of this shrillness. I have been thinking about getting better recording gear, just to accommodate this guitar, but haven't quite decided yet.

 

Lars

 

Edit: below is my best sounding recording of the old Banner. The song is kind of weird and the performance is quite lacking, but the song and the lyrics mean a lot to me. The combination of powerful bass and delicate trebles on this particular guitar is super, and not like any other guitar I have played.

 

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I love both Gibson and Martin, but my absolute favorite guitar is my 1942 J-45. It has a dry, punchy sound, with a thundering low E. Unfortunately, with the recording gear I have (Apogee mic + iPad), I find it very hard to record this guitar. The recordings tend to have a shrillness to them, that is not there in real life. The first recording above, is not that bad, but there are still hints of this shrillness. I have been thinking about getting better recording gear, just to accommodate this guitar, but haven't quite decided yet.

 

Lars

 

Edit: below is my best sounding recording of the old Banner. The song is kind of weird and the performance is quite lacking, but the song and the lyrics mean a lot to me. The combination of powerful bass and delicate trebles on this particular guitar is super, and not like any other guitar I have played.

 

 

Yes, some of those single notes in the J-45 played intro seem to want to punch through my speakers. I'm sure that could be tamed with a different recording setup. The Martin sounded beautiful in the intro, though, I thought. Overall, I liked the J-45 better. It sounded richer and fuller to me. Nice performances, both!

 

Red 333

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Yes, some of those single notes in the J-45 played intro seem to want to punch through my speakers. I'm sure that could be tamed with a different recording setup. The Martin sounded beautiful in the intro, though, I thought. Overall, I liked the J-45 better. It sounded richer and fuller to me. Nice performances, both!

 

Red 333

 

Thanks for listening! Yes, some of those intro notes are loud :-) The Banner is an incredibly loud guitar, and I'm not always capable of taming it. My right hand is a little too heavy at times...

 

Lars

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Hard to choose between those two. Good playing and singing. Both guitars provide excellent support to an obviously quite talented artist. I think the artist is the standout of those two clips. Very nice.

 

I appreciate the compliment. That's about the nicest thing someone has ever said to me about my music. I don't think I deserve it, but a big thanks, never the less. I try very hard and often come up short, so your comment warms the soul.

 

I have been listening to the two tracks some more, and while I greatly prefer the sound of the Gibson in real life, I must go with the recording of the Martin. The Gibson is too shrill in the recording. I also sing a little better on the Martin track. I have played with mic positions etc, but can't quite get the J-45 to record its natural voice.

 

Either way, I am very glad to have both Martin and Gibson guitars. They enrich my life in a way no other material objects can do, and that is really something [biggrin]

 

Lars

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If you got a boring D-18 let me know. I am looking for one.

 

I had a very boring D18 last year. Traded it for my SJ200, otherwise I would have sold it to you willingly!

 

I sort of occupy both camps in this debate. I find Martins quite hit and miss. I had a wonderful 00DB Tweedy signature which was one of the sweetest little guitars I've ever owned. My former bandmate had an HD28 which was a hateful thing, one of the most pedestrian and uninspiring guitars I've ever played. I owned an OM18V which was spectacular, so beautiful sounding that I once had an audience member (okay, she WAS drunk!) in tears at how sweet it sounded. Then again my D18 was horrible. Last month I played a D35 which knocked my socks off and I WISHED I could afford.

 

You get the picture...to my ears, Martins either REALLY have the magic or REALLY don't.

 

Even an average Gibson has some loveliness that I can appreciate, and the great ones are absolutely interstellar...different strokes for different folks, which is what makes this whole crazy guitar world so much fun to inhabit! ☺️

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Ain't nothing like a Martin Acoustic.

 

Highly debatable.

 

Although in this example I thought the Martin sounded good, until I heard the Gibson which demonstrated perfectly the multi dimensional tonal characteristics Gibsons have compared to Martins, which to my ear is a bit of one trick pony.

 

Very nice pony however.

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Nice pick.

 

My vote's for the 28. Deep throb, ripe trebles. The Gibson is indeed dry. The sound bounces right off the back and out the hole. Not a lot of depth it. Very much as an archtop would. Great sound for rags, old time stuff. Jazz comping. The singer-songwriter stuff --this number anyway -- calls for bell tones and crisp arpeggios. In other word, a Martin. I started hearing the difference this spring, on some Dylan and Stills material I was working up.

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Hi Lars,

 

I like your singing and playing, sounds like TVZ.

Through these 2 recordings, I prefered the warmer D28, and it suits your voice better, for this song.

The J45 is sounding metallic to me (yes, shrill).

 

But the capo is high and does not let the guitars deliver their full voice.

Anyway, I was surprised, I was expecting a much boomier and overwhelming D28 Marquis (Adi+FSSB+RW) but found it warm and balanced.

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Hi Lars,

 

I like your singing and playing, sounds like TVZ.

Through these 2 recordings, I prefered the warmer D28, and it suits your voice better, for this song.

The J45 is sounding metallic to me (yes, shrill).

 

But the capo is high and does not let the guitars deliver their full voice.

Anyway, I was surprised, I was expecting a much boomier and overwhelming D28 Marquis (Adi+FSSB+RW) but found it warm and balanced.

 

Thank you for the compliments! Being a huge fan of TVZ, it means a lot.

 

Yes, I have come to the same conclusion after listening several times, and I have to admit, the recording of the Martin sounds the best of the two. In real life the Gibsons wins, but the recording makes it sound shrill/metallic. The Martin records much smoother, and is a truer representation of itself than the Gibson. A great incentive to buy better recording gear...

 

Lars

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Can’t help but wonder what would result in the strings being swapped over

 

I liked both guitars to be honest.

 

Nickel/bronze on the Martin, and Silk & steel on the Gibson, would surely bring the two guitars more together tone wise. However, my purpose with the original string choices was the complete oppositte, to end up with two as different sounding guitars as possible. The original string choice achieves just that, and it is a very cool thing to experience while sitting behind the guitars.

 

With that said, should I ever set out to make the best sounding recording I can with the Gibson, given the recording equipment I have now, silk & steel might go along way to tame the shrillness in the recorded tone. As far now, recording is just a practice tool for me, so the natural voice of the guitars is what is most important, and I'll stick with the current strings. This was a fun little experiment, and it really taught me that making recordings that truthfully represent the natural acoustic tone of a guitar, is indeed a very technically challenging endevour (something I will keep in mind when evaluating online recordings from now on).

 

Lars

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