2018 SJ-200 Vintage

[Victory Pete]

I have my eye on one of these, I wonder how the 2018 model differs from the past versions.

 

 

 

 

http://www.musiciansfriend.com/guitars/gibson-2018-sj-200-vintage-acoustic-guitar?rNtt=sj200&index=2

 

 

 

 

http://www.gibson.com/Products/Acoustic-Instruments/2017/SJ-200-Vintage.aspx

 

 

 

[slimt]

Bound sound hole 4 bar pearl on bridge. Nice. Thats the style i prefer.

[Victory Pete]

Bound sound hole 4 bar pearl on bridge. Nice. Thats the style i prefer.

 

Yes, it will compliment both my Rosewoods: Western Classic and 1938 SJ-200

[E-minor7]

, , , I wonder how the 2018 model differs from the past versions.

Probably the same as the last couple of years - since the torrefied revolution.

 

 

 

[Victory Pete]

Probably the same as the last couple of years - since the torrefied revolution.

 

 

 

 

I see references to a vintage finish, 2017 specs says VOS finish. I don't want anything other than a typical new nitro finish. I am not into the relic nonsense.

[JuanCarlosVejar]

I see references to a vintage finish, 2017 specs says VOS finish. I don't want anything other than a typical new nitro finish. I am not into the relic nonsense.

These Vintage models are the same as the TV's but with torrified tops.

They only come in sunburst (only a handfull of natural prototypes were done but never on a large scale)

 

 

Gibson has partnered with the University of Minnesota for the baking process

 

 

JC

[Victory Pete]

These Vintage models are the same as the TV's but with torrified tops.

They only come in sunburst (only a handfull of natural prototypes were done but never on a large scale)

 

 

Gibson has partnered with the University of Minnesota for the baking process

 

 

JC

 

 

 

 

Do you know what the VOS Finish is exactly? I guess it is to make it look old, which scares me.

 

 

 

 

 

[E-minor7]

I see references to a vintage finish, 2017 specs says VOS finish. I don't want anything other than a typical new nitro finish. I am not into the relic nonsense.

I played one of these this summer and recall it as semi-matte. It was remarkably beautiful - not least the neck-burst detail.

 

Wouldn't call it relic'd, but watch out - it might not speak to you.

[Victory Pete]

I played one of these this summer and recall it as semi-matte. It was remarkably beautiful - not least the neck-burst detail.

 

Wouldn't call it relic'd, but watch out - it might not speak to you.

 

I like a semi gloss, I have a 335 Dot that was flat, I buffed it a bit to bring up some shine, now it does look a bit aged as there are still some flat areas I couldn't get to. After I have a new guitar for a few years and some areas need touch ups, I "buff down" the guitar to give it a semi gloss.But most importantly, how did it sound?

[JuanCarlosVejar]

Do you know what the VOS Finish is exactly? I guess it is to make it look old, which scares me.

The VOS stands for Vintage Original Specs.

When montana started applying the VOS on the first run of True Vintage guitars (2007-2008)

 

The finishes were a "dull" or "low sheen" finish ,after they came out with a run of 167 True Vintage guitars that had "limited edition upgrades" and came with aged tuners and yellowed binding. I guess once they saw how succesful that run of 167 was ... They just upgraded every TV to Red Spruce (except the Hummingbird) and some guitars came out with weathered tuners and binding and others didn't.

 

The "new" Vintage model has that same "dull" sheen but it no longer has the aged tuners or yellowed bindings

If you hold a True Vintage side by side to it's Vintage line counter part you will see the tops on the Vintage models appear much darker do to the torrification.

 

 

This is also evident if you compare the top of a J 200 vintage to it's hack.

 

 

 

JC

[E-minor7]

I like a semi gloss, I have a 335 Dot that was flat, I buffed it a bit to bring up some shine, now it does look a bit aged as there are still some flat areas I couldn't get to. After I have a new guitar for a few years and some areas need touch ups, I "buff down" the guitar to give it a semi gloss.But most importantly, how did it sound?

 

Semi matte / semi gloss to me is the same thing and JCV confirms my memory. These are semi.

Regarding the voice, it sounded right - new, but right and promising. One could hear the torrefaction by the dry crispy timbre - and feel it by the weight.

If you can deal with semi and want a 200, they are worth hunting.

 

 

But JCV, my 2008 HB of the 167 batch hadn't aged tuners, , , and the bindings were the same yellowed'n'warm as on my 2012 TVs.

Not much visual difference there - if any.

And yes, the fried tops are usually darker, which in some cases almost change the basic identity of the icons.

Also played a burned Bird, , , and when I say burned I mean burned.

The guitar was brown, , , , however in its own right pretty cühl, , and will one day be one mojoed stunner.

[JuanCarlosVejar]

Semi matte / semi gloss to me is the same thing and JCV confirms my memory. These are semi.

Regarding the voice, it sounded right - new, but right and promising. One could hear the torrefaction by the dry crispy timbre - and feel it by the weight.

If you can deal with semi and want a 200, they are worth hunting.

 

 

But JCV, my 2008 HB of the 167 batch hadn't aged tuners, , , and the bindings were the same yellowed'n'warm as on my 2012 TVs.

Not much visual difference there - if any.

And yes, the fried tops are usually darker, which in some cases almost changes the basic identity of the icons.

Also played a burned Bird, , , and when I say burned I mean burned.

The guitar was brown, , , , however in its own right pretty cühl, , and will one day be one mojoed stunner.

I guess that's classic Gibson goofyness !

 

 

 

JC

[E-minor7]

I guess that's classic Gibson goofyness !

Actually haven't seen aged tuners on contemporary Gibsons before the torrefaction wave.

Correct if wrong.

 

 

 

[JuanCarlosVejar]

Actually haven't seen aged tuners on contemporary Gibsons before the torrefaction wave.

Correct if wrong.

http://acousticguitar.com/review-gibsons-j-45-vintage-is-a-winning-workhorse-video/

 

AGM calls them "dulled tuners" in the review

 

 

 

JC

[E-minor7]

AGM calls them "dulled tuners" in the review

There you go - a 2016 fried horse.

 

 

 

[bobouz]

I have a natural finish 2012 ES-330 VOS (based on the 1959 model).

 

Imho, the VOS treatment works perfectly with a natural-finished instrument, producing what one might call a very mild satin look, but not dull. When combined with the slightly aged nickel plating, the overall effect is lovely. Open the case, and it's like pulling out a guitar that's been quietly waiting there for you, untouched, for over fifty years.

 

At the time of purchase, the same guitar was also available in a period correct sunburst, and red. Unfortunately, I found the VOS effect to be rather dull & lifeless on the darker finishes. Somehow, it just looked out of place.

 

One other comment: I am not a fan of the four-ribbon mustache bridge. It creates a wide gap between the saddle and the pin holes, making it difficult to get a decent break angle on the strings. Additionally, if you ever want or need to ramp the pin holes, the inlays block your ability to do so.

[Victory Pete]

The VOS stands for Vintage Original Specs.

When montana started applying the VOS on the first run of True Vintage guitars (2007-2008)

 

The finishes were a "dull" or "low sheen" finish ,after they came out with a run of 167 True Vintage guitars that had "limited edition upgrades" and came with aged tuners and yellowed binding. I guess once they saw how succesful that run of 167 was ... They just upgraded every TV to Red Spruce (except the Hummingbird) and some guitars came out with weathered tuners and binding and others didn't.

 

The "new" Vintage model has that same "dull" sheen but it no longer has the aged tuners or yellowed bindings

If you hold a True Vintage side by side to it's Vintage line counter part you will see the tops on the Vintage models appear much darker do to the torrification.

 

 

This is also evident if you compare the top of a J 200 vintage to it's hack.

 

 

 

JC

 

 

I hope the 2018 doesn't have aged tuners or yellowed bindings, The flat finish I can deal with, some buffing can bring up some shine.

 

 

 

 

[Victory Pete]

I have a natural finish 2012 ES-330 VOS (based on the 1959 model).

 

Imho, the VOS treatment works perfectly with a natural-finished instrument, producing what one might call a very mild satin look, but not dull. When combined with the slightly aged nickel plating, the overall effect is lovely. Open the case, and it's like pulling out a guitar that's been quietly waiting there for you, untouched, for over fifty years.

 

At the time of purchase, the same guitar was also available in a period correct sunburst, and red. Unfortunately, I found the VOS effect to be rather dull & lifeless on the darker finishes. Somehow, it just looked out of place.

 

One other comment: I am not a fan of the four-ribbon mustache bridge. It creates a wide gap between the saddle and the pin holes, making it difficult to get a decent break angle on the strings. Additionally, if you ever want or need to ramp the pin holes, the inlays block your ability to do so.

 

When I got my 2016 Western Classic and 1938 SJ-200 I was concerned with the break angle issue. I thought break angle contributed to volume, it does not, it does effect the picking attack though, the lower the break angle the less treble bite you have on initial picking attack, This can be overcome by picking closer to the bridge. I also made new saddles out of unbleached bone I left them a bit high and added grooves to lock the string it place. I already added a little bit of a ramp. The height of the string from the soundboard should be 1/2 " for maximum volume, irrespective of the break angle.

 

http://forum.gibson...._1#entry1810708

[zombywoof]

Hey, I like the look of the top. Don't know nothing about the nuking part but it brings to mind the burst on my 1956 Epi FT-79 which I have always been partial to.

 

I personally think J-200s are the best strummers on the planet. Price tag is a bit scary though.

[Jinder]

I'm not into the semi matte finishes. I thought the Legend series sounded incredible (the L-00 in particular was interstellar) but the finish just looked like a mess to me.

 

I want an SJ200 to have the normal Nitro, so it can age appropriately. I don't buy into the semi-matte pre-knackered look or the relic-ing hoohah. Most of my guitars end up looking attractively knackered after I've carted them around the globe and to and fro, so pre-knackered takes half of the fun out of it!

[fortyearspickn]

I have a natural finish 2012 ES-330 VOS (based on the 1959 model).

 

Imho, the VOS treatment works perfectly with a natural-finished instrument, producing what one might call a very mild satin look, but not dull. When combined with the slightly aged nickel plating, the overall effect is lovely. Open the case, and it's like pulling out a guitar that's been quietly waiting there for you, untouched, for over fifty years.

 

At the time of purchase, the same guitar was also available in a period correct sunburst, and red. Unfortunately, I found the VOS effect to be rather dull & lifeless on the darker finishes. Somehow, it just looked out of place.

 

One other comment: I am not a fan of the four-ribbon mustache bridge. It creates a wide gap between the saddle and the pin holes, making it difficult to get a decent break angle on the strings. Additionally, if you ever want or need to ramp the pin holes, the inlays block your ability to do so.

It seems ramping the bridge holes would only be necessary if you are lowering the saddle. Which, of course, would lower the break angle further.

I think a few millimeters adjustment to the saddle height, and/or one or two degrees of lower angle break from the pin would have less impact on a larger guitar like the SJ200. The combination of size, shape, long neck, and modified bracing probably over-ride the impact of break angle, for this icon over the past 70 or so years.

 

 

[bobouz]

It seems ramping the bridge holes would only be necessary if you are lowering the saddle.

 

Yes, exactly. If the instrument has a less than ideal neck angle, you may not have much saddle height to work with. By design, the four ribbon bridge essentially eliminates the ramping option.

 

As for volume produced re the break angle, I'm not as concerned with volume as with the tone delivered, especially on the high strings. Almost all my playing is fingerpicking with a combination of nails & flesh. On the first and second strings, these are upstrokes only. On the third string, it's maybe half & half with the drop thumb technique. Break angle behind the saddle to the pins holes, to my ears, can significantly impact the quality of tone being delivered. Here again, the four ribbon bridge immediately cuts down on the range of optional settings available for dialing in the tone.

[JuanCarlosVejar]

I have a 4 ribbon 200 TV (2007) [recently retired it for personal reasons] and in 9 years of it being my main guitar ...It never got to the point where it needed ramping .It could be do to the fact that I only ever used 11's or 12's on it ...The tone of that guitar is outstanding.

 

I only ever play with the tips of my fingers and rarely use a pick so I never needed to go with 13's for extra volume ...I got by just fine on extra lights or lights.

 

 

 

 

 

JC

[Victory Pete]

Yes, exactly. If the instrument has a less than ideal neck angle, you may not have much saddle height to work with. By design, the four ribbon bridge essentially eliminates the ramping option.

 

As for volume produced re the break angle, I'm not as concerned with volume as with the tone delivered, especially on the high strings. Almost all my playing is fingerpicking with a combination of nails & flesh. On the first and second strings, these are upstrokes only. On the third string, it's maybe half & half with the drop thumb technique. Break angle behind the saddle to the pins holes, to my ears, can significantly impact the quality of tone being delivered. Here again, the four ribbon bridge immediately cuts down on the range of optional settings available for dialing in the tone.

 

It took me a while to "embrace" the 4 bar bridge. But embrace I now do, this guitar will be my third Super Jumbo with one. As I have said and witnessed in an experiment, volume is not affected by a low break angle, but picking attack is, more treble is produced on the initial attack of the strings, something I am fond of. I have adjusted my strumming on my SJ's and strum closer to the bridge. I also believe the string slots I put in the saddle help in this regard. If cutting ramps were absolutely necessary, cutting carefully into the MOP is possible.

[Buc McMaster]

By design, the four ribbon bridge essentially eliminates the ramping option.

?? There's no rule that says the MOP ribbons cannot be cut through for ramping. The Western Classic I owned some years back was a four ribbon bridge with a less than optimal neck set. There was no hesitation to ramp into the ribbons where necessary to get sufficient break. The distance between the saddle and the pins can be an issue with a 4-ribbon bridge.......it requires an above average neck set to be right without ramping.