E-minor7 Posted October 14, 2017 Share Posted October 14, 2017 Sorry if my assumptions are incorrect. Have to say they are. The difference is huge. A corny (and bad) comparison would be it's like changing between a wooden and a plastic badminton racket. On what, VP, do you base these idea other than thought logic, if I may be that free. . Really surprised here as you normally are sensitive to the finest nuances - details, fx. break-angles, I can't sense myself. Cheers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 Have to say they are. The difference is huge. A corny (and bad) comparison would be it's like changing between a wooden and a plastic badminton racket. On what, VP, do you base these idea other than thought logic, if I may be that free. . Really surprised here as you normally are sensitive to the finest nuances - details, fx. break-angles, I can't sense myself. Cheers In a conventional wooden bridge the saddle sits on the bridge. String vibration go through saddle, through bridge and through top. With those adjustable porcelain saddles they don't sit on any bridge surface whether wood or plastic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted October 14, 2017 Author Share Posted October 14, 2017 Here is a modification I did on a 1957 Southern Jumbo with the adjustable bridge. https://www.facebook.com/278179168883771/photos/a.1165396073495405.1073741877.278179168883771/1165396090162070/?type=3&theater Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 In a conventional wooden bridge the saddle sits on the bridge. String vibration go through saddle, through bridge and through top. With those adjustable porcelain saddles they don't sit on any bridge surface whether wood or plastic. You are right - still the bridge plays an enormous role as the vibes are so close to this component. Eeehh, the strings 'rest' and root there. Therefor the whole controversy about the plastic bridges (no need to say). And therefor my curiosity and lust for investigation. The fixed-saddle-job looks good and follows the convention. The cut Mart. bridge was rather smart. But have you ever A/B'ed 2 similar guitars with adj. same-material-saddles in plast and rose bridges. The difference will be just as obvious as the thoughts one would have about it before trying. There was a reason I used the term parallel universe in post #19 ;-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliasphobias Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 I have 2 guitars with the adj., 3 different saddles materials (tusk, ceramic, and ebony). You could argue that the differences are subtle but not to my ears. Are you saying that they would sound the same VP? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 I have 2 guitars with the adj., 3 different saddles materials (tusk, ceramic, and ebony). You could argue that the differences are subtle but not to my ears. Are you saying that they would sound the same VP? No, of course the saddle material makes a differences, I say that the bridges, plastic or wood with the adjustable saddles do not make much if any difference because the string and saddles do not sit on them. They seem to go "around" them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 Here is where I first discovered this information about Rosewood Vs. Ebony: https://www.tapatalk...ne-t112978.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 More information: http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211379717302632 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 No, of course the saddle material makes a differences, I say that the bridges, plastic or wood with the adjustable saddles do not make much if any difference because the string and saddles do not sit on them. They seem to go "around" them. And with that repeated, I ask again : Have you ever been in contact with these plastic bridges. The theory is plain wrong, which is extra worrying as it comes from a professional guitar-doc and 'Board-scientist'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 And with that repeated, I ask again : Have you ever been in contact with these plastic bridges. The theory is plain wrong, which is extra worrying as it comes from a professional guitar-doc and 'Board-scientist'. Never seen a plastic bridge. Don't be worried, I am quite clever and capable having been working with guitars for exactly 30 years. Started working at Guild in the fall of 1987. The ball end of the strings is attached to the bridgeplate with the forward force from the bridge pins, any effect from a plastic or wooden bridge in this case I am sure is minimal. I see people commenting on how great their guitars sound even with the plastic bridge, makes you wonder what effect the plastic has, perhaps none. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 , , , perhaps none. All the difference in the acoustic world put on a slice of bread 2, 4 or 5000 ears can eat. . Now back to your rose/ebony theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 The ball end of the strings is attached to the bridgeplate with the forward force from the bridge pins, any effect from a plastic or wooden bridge in this case I am sure is minimal. And yet you perceive an audible difference between ebony and rosewood, based on a couple of flimsy experiments. Left field......deep in left field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 And yet you perceive an audible difference between ebony and rosewood, based on a couple of flimsy experiments. Left field......deep in left field. You can not hear a difference in my video? You have my sympathy, I know I cant hear the high frequencies I could 30 years ago but I guess I am doing alright. Here is some more proof: https://www.tapatalk...ne-t112978.html http://www.sciencedi...211379717302632 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scriv58 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 lotta folks seem to thrive on controversy and circular deadend arguments- reckon it's easier than time spent on becoming a decent picker... http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/forums/showthread.php?t=485878 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 lotta folks seem to thrive on controversy and circular deadend arguments- reckon it's easier than time spent on becoming a decent picker... http://www.acousticg...ad.php?t=485878 I know, some people cant handle the truth. I spend a lot of time being a decent strummer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 I know, some people cant handle the truth. Yep.......you being chief amongst them. Seat-of-the-pants experimentation does not a truth make, sir. And trying to isolate one component of acoustic guitar construction from all the others in an attempt to prove a tonal point is......well.......ridiculous and futile........ Good luck chasing smoke, Pete.........Kirk out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 Yep.......you being chief amongst them. Seat-of-the-pants experimentation does not a truth make, sir. And trying to isolate one component of acoustic guitar construction from all the others in an attempt to prove a tonal point is......well.......ridiculous and futile........ Good luck chasing smoke, Pete.........Kirk out. Are you debating the information in the links? Are you saying those scientific specifications for rosewood and ebony are false? http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S2211379717302632 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victory Pete Posted October 15, 2017 Author Share Posted October 15, 2017 Once again I am wasting my time dealing with belligerent, argumentative, ignorant old men. Seems this is the king of mentality that is ruining this country. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Well done pete You won again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scriv58 Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 Once again I am wasting my time dealing with belligerent, argumentative, ignorant old men. Seems this is the king of mentality that is ruining this country. I resemble that remark- whaddya mean "old"?? just cos i'm 59 don't mean i ain't readin' at a 60 year old level! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliasphobias Posted October 15, 2017 Share Posted October 15, 2017 I think the reason they make so many different guitars is because everyone likes something different. Sometimes theory and hypothesis are only valid in the lab. If you are happy with your guitars, that is all that matters Pete. I'm not sure what you're trying to convince people of, but name calling and a caustic persona aren't getting your point across. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Ginger is 'brighter and more open'. BUT MaryAnn - she's a darker, more mysterious and volatile. Engaging and responsive........ I'm sorry - what was the question. I always enjoy a responsive - um... - bridge! That's it 😁 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 Fascinating poll but I'm unclear of the utility of it. If we all vote for ebony (or rosewood), so what? It's not going to change how builders view or use the woods. J45nick's observation is spot on; There are so many other variables involved in a guitar's sound that asking "ebony vs. rosewood bridge" in a vacuum makes little sense. And I'll save you the trouble of telling me to "run along." I'll do it all on my own. Too bad you had to leave so soon. Been wondering if you were going to get back to the forum anytime soon😒 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted October 16, 2017 Share Posted October 16, 2017 You will always get into trouble attempting the promulgate the "gospel" when it comes to guitars. Don't eat the yellow snow and do not drink too deeply of the Tone Wood Kool Aid. 😁👍😂 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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