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The 12 and the 14


Buc McMaster

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After spending a few months now with the long-neck, short-neck versions of the J-45, a few things have emerged......

 

The 14-fret is lightweight.........noticeably lighter than the 12.......which I find curious. The 12 is obviously heavy relative to the other. Difference in sitka v. adirondack? Braces? The 14 has a fat, chunky C neck with a slight V and is much larger than the 12.......I find the 14 neck more comfortable in the hand but the smaller profile on the 12 is no problem to play. The 12 is degrees louder and warmer than the 14, while the 14 is crisper, more articulate. I've had both strung with DR Sunbeam 12 for two or three weeks now so none of the differences are string related. The highest I capo is at the 6th and on the 12-fret it took a little while to adapt my hand position to get to just one chord I use when capo-ed there.........with the 14 it's not an issue at all. I really do like the feeling of compactness with the 12 as everything feel so close and accessible, and switching to the 14 makes it all feel open and free. Both have excellent intonation anywhere on the board and both hold tuning for days on end. The 12 has gotten the lion's share of play time over the last months but every time I pull the 14 out of the case it's like wow! what a guitar! Do I have to choose?!?!

 

Just a few observations of a 12 and a 14 fret version of the same guitar................

 

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Both necks are quite consistent in depth from the nut to the heel with very little increase in girth over their lengths. And yes, perhaps the cooked top is a bit lighter but given the difference I feel between the two I cannot imagine that's all of it. Made a video of the two just now, but listening back it's perhaps not the best tune for comparing the tone..........ah well. Been retired for two years now and the company I worked for reached out to me for some help........so I agreed to work part time, three days a week. On the front end of the job I'm doing a lot of dusty work and my voice has suffered a bit despite using a mask, so pardon a croak here and there. And where the hell is James Burton?!?!?

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UhtjiTOKlJ0

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Buc, I find it hard to get a feel for the differences with that very percussive playing style you are using in this comparison. Maybe something with only the guitars (no vocals) might be helpful, although with your voice it's all about the singing rather than the guitar.

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The 12 has gotten the lion's share of play time over the last months but every time I pull the 14 out of the case it's like wow! what a guitar! Do I have to choose?!?!

As you aren't under financial pressure, I seriously think you should keep both and define yourself as a 45-guy.

I know you've been through a lot of guitars over the years, but every time you talk about these two, the words ring with a certain depth.

Having both will keep the inspiration alive - the back'n'forth of a pendulum always makes the other pole magnetic.

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Buc, I find it hard to get a feel for the differences with that very percussive playing style you are using in this comparison.

I agree. This was done not long after I landed the 12 fret. While the volume differences is not so up front in this video, the 12 fret is definitely warmer.........

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aR3D8fAISM

 

Em7.........oh yes, I'll be keeping the both of these and have no desire to hunt for more.

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I for the life of me do not have a clue as to why one guitar would be substantially heavier. Assuming the scale is the same there would be no reason to put a bulkier neck block and more substantial bridge plate in one over the other. Just a question but is the bridge plate in the same position on both guitars?

 

The reason I ask is I play with my fingers and tend to favor 12 fretters, especially the slotheads. To begin with, I don't really need the extra two frets but on 12 fretters the bridge is generally located more in the center of the lower bout which to my ears is in part what gives you a distinct sound. Then you throw in the slotted headstock which is thicker and thus has more mass than a paddle headstock which also impacts the sound

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I agree. This was done not long after I landed the 12 fret. While the volume differences is not so up front in this video, the 12 fret is definitely warmer.........

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4aR3D8fAISM

 

Em7.........oh yes, I'll be keeping the both of these and have no desire to hunt for more.

 

 

Good comparison. The 12 sounds a bit tight in the lower end, the 14 a bit more open and "projective" all around, and also louder.

 

From that particular comparison, I would go with the 14 every time.

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Hay Buc ,you asked. ..... "Do I have to choose?!?!?

 

Buc your retired, or at least semi-retired, so ..

.........No you do NOT have to choose.

 

So if your feeling strong pick up the heavy one if not then it's the light weight for the day jmhofwiw 😋😎

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Firstly, I’ve been meaning to say for AGES...you’re one helluva singer, Buc. Every time I hear you I’m blown away. Your voice reminds me a little of Lowell George, one of my very favourites.

 

12 fretter is sweetest to my ears by the way...i can imagine they’ll both be interstellar in a couple of years!

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I always have trouble with these comparos because once my ears and brain decide, they can never really get along. And the brain is outnumbered.

 

And, it's difficult to pick BETTER, from DIFFERENT if both are really good.

 

You and them sound great Buc, so that's really all I've got.

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I Like the 12 fret better on the Ricky Nelson song, but the 14 fret in that other video. As far as the weight is concerned, I would guess the 12 fret is build like the standard models, whereas the vintage evolved from the true vintage line, which is noticeable lighter build than Gibsons standard models, the tv and vintage models have a different, lighter bracing, don't know if thats the only difference though.

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It would be interesting to actually weigh them. Do they have the same electronics? Minus 2 frets worth of neck wood (except for the fretboard extension). Shorter truss rod on the 12'er? Both neck blocks come out from the rim 1.5 inches, yes? Finishes weigh, and wood densities vary, too. Strange, but not hard to see the 14 being lighter.

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Thanks for the interest! To be honest, I'm just too damn lazy to go poking around inside inspecting braces and neck blocks...........really doesn't matter much but there is a notable weight difference between the two. Both have K&K Pure Mini pickups, all passive. Love 'em both! Put Sunbeams on the 14'er just to remember what they sound like on that guitar but I've gone back to Retro 12's as they do it for me on this guitar. The 12'er works best with Sunbeams.

 

[blush] Thanks for the kudos to Jinder & Sal! I'll never be any more of a guitar player than I already am, with mediocre skills, but being what I like to call a songster is enough for me.......I just love to bang on a few chords and sing a song.

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