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Franken 45 - Need More Advice, Please


thegreatgumbino

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Played an old J45 that had a replaced top today. The shop owner said someone brought it in 30 years ago after someone had sat on the top and destroyed it. He said it wasn't repairable at the time, so the owner donated it to the shop for parts. 15 years ago the shop owner decided to repair it with a new Martin soundboard and it's sat in a back room since. I have no idea what the bracing is. They put it on the floor recently to try and sell it. Sounded really good! He's thinking $1,000 for it, but said he needs to have his techs run through it and make sure it's up to snuff first. There was a crack in the back of the headstock that they said they can repair. Another crack in the soundboard near the end pin. I have no idea what year it is. Couldn't find a FON. What would you think is a fair price for this? Not sure I'm interested, but it did sound darn good.

 

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Unless the tech came up with a list of other problems I'd throw a grand at that any ol' time. I would have wished they left the big pick guard off.

 

Can't read the 3rd digit, but 50's era guard, which I assume they kept period correct. I wonder if they kept the orig bridge?

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Unless the tech came up with a list of other problems I'd throw a grand at that any ol' time. I would have wished they left the big pick guard off.

 

Can't read the 3rd digit, but 50's era guard, which I assume they kept period correct. I wonder if they kept the orig bridge?

 

That large pointy pickguard was used from 1955 up to the end of the 1960s. The serial number would date the guitar as a 1962. The single line Kluson tuners date from before 1964 so are what I would expect to find.

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I want to say up to about 2010 Martin would sell you a top or just about any part you needed.

 

I do not really have a clue as to value. A lot would depend on the "crack" in the headstock. While these be fixed and never give you any worries or problems, there is usually a pretty good discount for any guitar with a repaired headstock alone never mind a replaced top. Assuming the guitar was built in the early 1960s, a $1K asking price is somewhere around 75% off what I see them going for in all good all-original condition. So my opinion would be the price seems very reasonable assuming the headstock is not an issue and you like the guitar.

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Nice find.… So just what Martin guitar would that be the soundboard to? Very nice go at a mid 60s Gibson burst. The swirly goo pickguard also suggests mid-60’s. The top is a little stripy for me,; suppose it could be worn with some horizontally striped bellbottoms?

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By that serial number, as zombie says, it's a 1962.

 

If they can do a good job of fixing the headstock crack as part of the deal, and if everything else is good (fret and fretboard wear, bracing, neck angle and saddle height), and if you like the way it plays and sounds, $1000 would probably be a really good value.

 

It will always be a player rather than a collectible, but so what? I even like the 'burst, which is pretty similar to a faded cherryburst from the mid/late 1960's.

 

Nut width in 1962 should be 1 11/16". The neck may have a fairly skinny profile, but if it feels good in your hands, that's what counts.

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Yeah, it is a bit odd, but it looks quite good and if the sound'n'feel are there, why not try it.

 

Regarding the bracing, it could be an idea to suggest the shop-guy to remove the strings and lower a small mirror and lite to checks things out.

Compare it with pics of the originals - pattern, X-position, brace-thickness etc.

It definitely will be in his interest too and maybe you could do it in a remote corner of the place.

 

Have fun

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I'll have to check it out again when I go back this week. The dilemma is I've been looking for a J100/J150 (maple) and found two J100 xtra's (one maple, one bubinga) for a couple hundred dollars more. I can only swing one right now, unfortunately. I haven't been able to play the J100, yet, as they're out of town. Decisions, decisions.

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I'll have to check it out again when I go back this week. The dilemma is I've been looking for a J100/J150 (maple) and found two J100 xtra's (one maple, one bubinga) for a couple hundred dollars more. I can only swing one right now, unfortunately. I haven't been able to play the J100, yet, as they're out of town. Decisions, decisions.

 

 

I haven't made it back in to check it out again, but I did speak with the shop owner. When asked about the top and bracing, he said it would have been a standard solid sitka Martin D28/D18 style top . He doesn't recall exactly which one. The bracing is unscalloped and the pattern would match whichever it style it was. He's going to run through it for issues and fix the headstock before next weekend so I can check it out again.

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This post in the "Buying Guitars Back" thread made me realize I need some guidance/advice from those better versed in old guitars. First world problems.....

 

Bwahaha - On the lesson learned, more than 1/2 of the guitars I own do not have any neck reinforcement. But I know from experience a truss rod is not going to save you. While I will not name names, when you do not spend the time to do the dovetail right choosing rather to fill gaps with glue, no truss rod in the world is going to spare you the pain of a neck reset.

 

I'm planning on going into the shop to check out the Franken 45 this weekend, and I want to be prepared. When I played the guitar last week, there were a few issues with the Franken 45 that were obvious. Granted, they said their tech will run through the guitar and make sure everything is in order, but I don't want to walk out with a guitar that's going to have issues in the near future. I know it's a vintage guitar, and some are to be expected, but between the fact it sat unstrung for a minimum of 15 years, it was re-topped, and them running through to check everything I would hope it would not need anything in the foreseeable future.

 

1) The neck join had gaps at the connection to the body. At the time, I asked if the neck had been reset, and I don't recall them answering. They did say it just needed some glue worked into seal it. Obviously, this is the number one concern after reading the above mentioned post.

 

2) The first three frets had visible gaps under the fret wire. Comparing them to the other frets up the neck, it appeared to me the leg of the wire that sits in the neck was shorter on the first three frets than the others. Maybe they had to do a refret and used the wrong wire? I tried pressing on the frets to see if there was any play, but didn't visually witness any.

 

3) As mentioned, the headstock was cracked on the back side. It was in a V shape below the tuners and pointing toward the neck. The shop said they would work glue in to repair. I realize headstock cracks are not a deal breaker, just never seen one that looked like this.

 

4) I definitely need to inspect the bracing inside now that I know the Martin top already had the standard "X" non-scalloped bracing on it. I'm curious to see how they made this work since the Martin Dreadnaught is physically bigger/sized different than the J45. Surely they had to trim the bracing to make the top fit?

 

Anything there that screams run away? The gap at the neck join and Zombywoof's previous statement regarding this issue worry me. As previously mentioned, I've also been intrigued with the J100 xtra lately and found a maple backed one not too far away for a about the same price. It's a 2002 in what appears to be good shape, but I haven't been able to put my hands on it/play it as it's a 3 hour drive away. If they had recreated the J45 bracing on the Martin top, I think I would be more inclined to grab it. With the other issues I listed above, I'm thinking the J100 might be a safer bet. I currently own a Sheryl Crow Southern Jumbo, so the J100 would give me more diversity. FWIW, I'm a bedroom strummer/fingerpicker/wanna be singer, so no gigging needs.

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The old J-45 may not be that good a deal with the problems you mention, but it's hard to know without seeing it. "Working some glue" into the cracked headstock--and that's what we're talking about, since your description fits that--may or may not be the correct repair.

 

That damage is typically from impact if the guitar is dropped or if you bang into something. If the headstock does not break clean off, one proper repair involves carefully prying the crack open enough to inject glue, followed by clamping, but it depends on a clan crack--no previous attempts at repairs--to be successful.

 

Fitting the Martin dread top to a J-45 could work, especially with non-scalloped braces. I don't have the differences in dimensions at hand, but if a J-45 outline fits within the dread outline, the braces can be properly shaped after cutting the top to the J-45 outline. The J-45 waist is a bit narrower than the Martin dread, and the upper bout of the J-45 is smaller. The Martin lower bout may or may not be as wide as a J-45, but we're talking pretty tiny differences as I recall.

 

The open neck joint and the headstock crack are the potential significant issues. As you point out, those may be replaced frets where they used a different wire. You would certainly want to check the fretboard for dead spots resulting from uneven fret height.

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I'm jumping ship too gumby. Being a buyer/user of only vintage guitars, if there are features that were changed I need to see that they were done with care and superior workmanship, or I start to feel like 'shadetree' luthiers were fiddling with honing their repair skills. If you have solid alternatives that don't break your budget I'd save the rescues for further on down the road.

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