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Chibson's... ...why?

#1 User is offline   NighthawkChris 

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:43 PM

I have been in this mode every evening where I watch videos on Chibsons... Unboxings, complaints, skeptics, etc. I most certainly do not want one of these - do not see the point in wanting one. They are unreliable in terms of quality where it may cost you as much as an actual Gibson LP Studio let's say to get a counterfeit guitar comfortably playable. I mean, any real Gibson player SHOULD be able to spot these fakes out a mile away... I simply think they are a waste of time and money. Oh, you have to wait nearly a month or more in the states and have it possibly seized at customs... Another reason why these are a gamble. You can buy the guitar for say $300-$350 with a hard-shell case, but then you have to buy pickups, because they come with crap. Then you have to spend money on the electronics which runs about $15-$20 a pot - totals $80 max let's say... Then you buy some caps which shouldn't be too much. Probably want a new 3-way toggle switch too which adds up. Let's safely sat $100 total in electronic components. Maybe you need a fret dressing and nut... These are going to cost about $200 if you can't do this yourself... So total price for non-technical guitar player:

$300 - guitar & case
$200 - pickups (generous)
$100 - electronics
$200 - fret dressing/nut
$100 - cost to pay someone to wire up guitar

If you don't know how to work on a guitar with soldering, fret leveling, nut filing, intonation setup, etc. you are making a mistake getting these while you have to wait nearly a month plus for something that is a gamble what problems you are going to deal with. All said and done, inexperienced person spends nearly a grand give or take a few hundred to get their Chibson into the quality zone. Why not buy a real Gibson used that you can evaluate in person that will be 100% legitimate and not have that ugly imposter look? Just doesn't make sense to me. I can rewire a guitar entirely and can perform a basic setup. I cannot dress frets as I don't have tools or experience, so this part of the deal would cost me. I also don't have nut files, and those nuts that comes with these China imposters are horrible! With half the necessary "luthier skills", it would cost even me a pretty penny.

Overall, seen enough videos to think "why?"... I find this a waste of money and time. Save your money, buy the Gibson, not the Chibson.
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#2 User is online   Rabs 

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 03:56 PM

You are preaching to the converted on here.. :)
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#3 User is offline   NHTom 

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 06:09 PM

very accurate post.............

Some people get all freaked out over the off brands and "lawsuit" guitars.........I have no issue with those as they are not trying to hide it.....they put their own name on the headstock...........sure it's a copy, but not a fake.

My local shop had a couple that they only put out at a sidewalk sale and clearly marked them as fakes.........I didn't even like that.....felt they should have been destroyed or at least logo removed/etc.

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#4 User is offline   Riffster 

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 06:48 PM

I think there are different reasons people are OK getting a fake but you are right, they do need work and parts to make them decent players.

Personally I'd rather have a low end Gibson than a modified Chibson.
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#5 User is offline   Johnny 6 String 

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Posted 14 November 2017 - 07:02 PM

Why?

Well ya just gotta keep up with the Joneses right?

The cork snifffers beat on you for anything but top o'the line

And besides no one will know if they don't get told right?



I could/would never recommend a fake, especially not with so many well made and affordable alternatives made by the parent or other well established companies.


Johnny
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#6 User is offline   MichaelT 

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:46 AM

I agree with what you're saying here. I bought a Dixon Flying V back in 1983. It's a copy and I knew it was a copy but I wanted a Flying V. I couldn't afford a Gibson at the time. It came with a lot of gold and brass hardware. Brass nut, brass knobs, gold pickups and rings with a lot of tarnish and wear, a bolt on neck with Fender style headstock and a generic Fender whammy bar. I was working at the music store I bought it from, so he did the setup on the guitar for me for free and it played like a dream. Very good action with a 50's style neck, 21 frets. It was a real player so I replaced just about everything on the body, kept the brass nut and tuning keys. Replaced the pickups with DiMarzios, put a Kahler whammy on it, put black speed knobs on it, replaced the worn pickup rings with black rings. He tested all the electronics, pots and everything. By the time all was said and done, I put $300 into a $200 guitar and it was awesome. That was my number one when playing in bands for a little over a year until I got my real Gibson V. That guitar was amazing as well. It was a used 1981 and I bought it in 1984. After a good cleaning, setup, fret dressing, etc, I couldn't have asked for a better guitar. Gibson went to #1 and the Dixon to #2. Both of those guitars went everywhere with me when we toured and I still have them both to this day. I bought another Gibson V about 5 years ago, and the two Les Pauls this year. I'm still amazed at how well that little Dixon V plays and sounds after all these years. And, the 81 V is the best playing and best sounding guitar I've ever touched.

So, my point is that I think if someone knows they're getting a copy and they're ok with it and they're willing to put time, money and work into it to make it a real player, go for it. It's their guitar, their money. What ticks me off about the copies is that some people try to pass the copies off as the real thing and charge Gibson (or other name brand) prices. I'd never buy a copy with the Gibson (or other name brand) on the headstock. It pays to do a little homework and check the guitar out in person.
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#7 User is offline   pippy 

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:51 AM

I think you might be WAY over-thinking this, Chris.

Many folks - who are, in general, not players (in the sense that we, here, understand the word) - just want something which looks like a Les Paul and has 'Gibson' on the headstock but at the same time they don't want to part with the neccessary folding to get a real one. It matters not one iota that the guitar will be of piss-poor quality and will play and sound like a POS because they have absolutely no appreciation of build-quality and can't really play guitar anyhow.

Pip.
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#8 User is offline   NighthawkChris 

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:55 AM

Put it this way, I do not care about winners and losers in the deal (Gibson or China in this instance). It is my opinion whether or not there is value in the deal or not. The facts are the facts regarding what you get for the money. I could not care less what name is on the guitar, how much someone spends on one to make them happy with the guitar, etc. I believe that people should be able to get what makes them happy ESPECIALLY when we are talking about guitars. I wanted to color a situation because I am sure that some out there would find what I am saying to outline financially what it takes to have a good Chibson. I've seen people's Chibsons that are great, but these people primarily say that they need work. And right off the bat, pickups have to go... You never get value in this part of the deal from what I've seen. But some people have some Chibson's that are pretty cool. Just that I would not want to go through the trials and tribulations to get that guitar in my hands the way it is being presented after all the work done to them. I prefer to pay up front and (hopefully these days) have a guitar that has no neck issues, no fret issues, no nut issues, comes with quality pickups, etc. like the good 'ol days. The "dialed in" Chibson costs some bucks, and I could buy a guitar at local store for nearly same cost. It sort of made me disappointed that these Chibson's aren't the deal they are cut out to be. The smoke and mirrors have been removed for me on this deal. In order to make these deals better than what they are - and it could be significant - is to have some luthier-type skills with frets, necks, nut filing, wiring, etc. If you have no issues paying with time - which isn't that bad if you ask me doing something you probably enjoy anyhow - then go for it. At that point, the excess cost boils down to parts only. Of course, not factoring in the cost of THE tools to do a quality job - these definitely aren't free. Me being the guy that does not have in-depth luthier experience with the things I mentioned, these Chibson's will probably cost me some bucks to where I find one acceptable. And, I don't find these to be the best candidates for learning luthier tasks. There are TONS of guitars out there locally that can constitute a good guitar to learn on.
- Vintage Sunburst 1993 Nighthawk SP3
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- Fireburst 1995 Nighthawk CST3
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- Fireburst 1997 Nighthawk ST3 w/ Floyd Rose
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#9 User is offline   Big Bill 

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:56 AM

View Postpippy, on 15 November 2017 - 08:51 AM, said:

I think you might be WAY over-thinking this, Chris.

Many folks - who are, in general, not players (in the sense that we, here, understand the word) - just want something which looks like a Les Paul and has 'Gibson' on the headstock but at the same time they don't want to part with the neccessary folding to get a real one. It matters not one iota that the guitar will be of piss-poor quality and will play and sound like a POS because they have absolutely no appreciation of build-quality and can't really play guitar anyhow.

Pip.



....some folks just want to emulate Slash and Page.
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#10 User is online   rct 

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 08:57 AM

I don't care what other people buy, fake or real, I don't care.

rct
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#11 User is offline   Riffster 

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 09:07 AM

I really think the reasons vary,

For instance I have seen Jimmy Page fans buying fake SG double necks, it is hard to justify buying one of those specialty guitars for a handful of songs for what a real Gibson sells.

Similar case could apply to an ES335, I can relate here somewhat here, I love the looks and sound of a 335 but it is not my main type of guitar, I bought an Epiphone ES335 Pro and will settle for that.

I also see players that already have a bunch of Gibsons but they get a fake as well, it may be curiosity or the desire of amassing more guitars in a collection but knowing that the $$$$ cannot be longer justified. I can also somewhat relate here, I already have my nice guitars, sometimes I see a cheap guitar and I'd like to buy it just to mess with it but since I do not need it I do not want to spend a lot of money.

At the end of the day folks that buy those Chibsons do not really care the differences in woods or craftsmanship. They will play in a video for 5 minutes and say they are the same or very similar as if guitar ownership can be summarized in 5 minutes.
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#12 User is offline   kidblast 

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 09:39 AM

My thought is simply... Who are we to tell ppl what to buy right? if one's happy with a fake, well fine.. let them be happy with a FAKE. Champagne taste on a ripple budget. so everyone else thinks they're playing a gibson.. if that makes em happy,, then peace be wit em..

But, should one turn around and sell that POS on flea-bay to some one unaware, and gak them for $2k.. obviously, very wrong, and those cretins should be taken to task on it, and not permitted to use E-Bay ever again. it's people like this, that tend to make the world a sh--ty place.
/Ray
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#13 User is online   rct 

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 09:41 AM

View Postkidblast, on 15 November 2017 - 09:39 AM, said:

My thought is simply... Who are we to tell ppl what to buy right? if one's happy with a fake, well fine.. let them be happy with a FAKE. Champagne taste on a ripple budget. so everyone else thinks they're playing a gibson.. if that makes em happy,, then peace be wit em..

But, should one turn around and sell that POS on flea-bay to some one unaware, and gak them for $2k.. obviously, very wrong, and those cretins should be taken to task on it, and not permitted to use E-Bay ever again. it's people like this, that tend to make the world a sh--ty place.


Life is way too short for crappy champagne. Guitars, sure, have at it, I have plenty of good ones I'm fine thanks. But crappy champagne will not be tolerated.

rct
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#14 User is offline   kidblast 

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 09:42 AM

tru dat..

a man has to set limits.... :)
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#15 User is offline   merciful-evans 

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 11:33 AM

View PostNighthawkChris, on 14 November 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:

I mean, any real Gibson player SHOULD be able to spot these fakes out a mile away...


You're probably right. I doubt I could spot a fake, and I dont consider myself a real Gibson player.
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#16 User is offline   surfpup 

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 06:52 PM

View Postrct, on 15 November 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

Life is way too short for crappy champagne. Guitars, sure, have at it, I have plenty of good ones I'm fine thanks. But crappy champagne will not be tolerated.

rct


Or crappy guitar cases! [biggrin]
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#17 User is offline   american cheez 

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 06:57 PM

View PostNighthawkChris, on 14 November 2017 - 03:43 PM, said:



$300 - guitar & case
$200 - pickups (generous)
$100 - electronics
$200 - fret dressing/nut
$100 - cost to pay someone to wire up guitar



$200- pickups if you bought a brand-new set of seymor duncans or used 498/496s
- electronics (my local place comes in under $70)
- fret dressing/nut ($40 for a nut, $100 fret dress)
- cost to pay someone to wire up guitar ($60)

total of $470 IF you bought brand new pick ups. prices came from a local shop. whether or not the guitar ends up sounding "as good as a gibson" i wouldn't debate because of the subjective nature. but at less than $800 you'd end up with a good looking guitar that plays well, and sounds at least as good as most brands. for someone on a budget who wants to play a black beauty or even a standard flame top, buying a gibbby is out of the question. the used price will be minimal at 4xs the modded chibby. you wont get any resale value at all, but otoh, the scarf joint will allow for multiple strap failures without a headstock breaking off. life is all about compromise. one decides where those compromises will be, according to their wants and needs.

i would agree though, that most of those chinese guitars are closet queens or wall hangers. most of the folks who buy them probably wouldn't mod them, because they're playing it through a metal zone into a line 6 spider. they don't know tone, and they never met tag. most real players wouldn't bother, but mostly out of brand loyalty. certainly, as one stands upon the lighted stage, wowing the crowd with their personal rendition of mustang sally or brown eyed girl, the audience neither knows nor cares if your guitar is real or not. as a player, i know there are more practical ways to get a good instrument on a budget. chibsons aren't for me for that reason. if you're 13 and want a cool-looking guitar that you'll only forget about by summer time anyhow, it's not such a bad deal.
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#18 User is offline   NighthawkChris 

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Posted 15 November 2017 - 07:47 PM

Chibsons are just another thing that caught my attention along the way being that I'm into guitars. Was simply giving my opinion as a player how I find it uneconomical for my situation. I mean there's obviously a market for it for whatever reason that I don't really care about... my intent was never to talk about the "problems" with counterfeit guitars. I suppose what I have said is sort of a persuasion towards not getting these due to the quality and cost details, but again, it's not like I qualify someone who gives their patronage to China guitars as a jerk or whatever... as everything in life, it depends on the situation as all of ours are different. I appreciate the feedback to the conversation. Just wanted something to BS about. I'm sad... I watched way too many Chibson videos 😊
- Vintage Sunburst 1993 Nighthawk SP3
- Ebony 1994 Nighthawk SP3
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#19 User is offline   FZ Fan 

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 06:41 AM

View Postrct, on 15 November 2017 - 09:41 AM, said:

Life is way too short for crappy champagne. Guitars, sure, have at it, I have plenty of good ones I'm fine thanks. But crappy champagne will not be tolerated.

rct


No, Life is to short for crappy guitars too. And scotch, bourboun, vodka, music, ect.

Do I want to drink Cutty Sark or The Macallen?
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#20 User is offline   MichaelT 

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Posted 16 November 2017 - 08:07 AM

View PostFZ Fan, on 16 November 2017 - 06:41 AM, said:

No, Life is to short for crappy guitars too. And scotch, bourboun, vodka, music, ect.

Do I want to drink Cutty Sark or The Macallen?


Macallan for sure. Funny story. I went to a casino and saw Macallan on the shelf and ordered a double. $36.00 for that glass of Scotch. Sure, it was good but when you can buy a bottle for $60.00, not that good. It's been one of my favorites for years. I work in the distilled spirits industry and prefer quality bourbon, Scotch and other whiskies.
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