Flame characteristics

[craigkim]

I was wondering if anyone else has noticed this...

 

I have had 2 figured top LPs. I had a plain top and returned it for a figured top model. Anyhow, one is a 2017 Standard HP in Blueberry Burst. When I first got it, I was impressed with the amount of flame it had. It has a ton of figuring on it, but I was surprised to find that the flame appears very 2 dimensional. It looks almost like a flame decal stuck on the surface of the guitars top. As you rotate it in the light, it doesn't appear that the flame has depth or 3 dimensionality to it at all. The only thing I note is that when you look at the guitar from opposite ends the light and dark appearing areas reverse, if that makes sense. That was a little disappointing given that it is supposed to be a AAAA top. I expected more.

 

Recently I acquired a 60 reissue in dark burst (Its one of the pg 129 versions from 2014) and although it is what I would call moderately figured, the flame has a much nicer characteristic to it. The flame appears to have a depth of several millimeters and is almost holographic in appearance. It looks really great. I wish it were little more figured, but otherwise I love it.

 

Granted one is a custom shop guitar and one is not, but I wanted to know if there is a reason for the difference? The sawing method? Different maples? Or is it the finish? It sure seems like the more yellow LPs I have seen tend to have a more 3D figuring vs the blue. I forget what the 2018 blue is called but the one at GC didn't look any more 3D than mine, whereas some of the other colors did. Anyone make that observation?

[Pin]

Not an answer to your question but I have certainly noticed there is flame and there is "flame".

 

I am less keen on the multi-stripe flame which seems to adorn most Les Pauls. Some of the older ones - the original 59s - had chevron and multi-stripe stuff etc but others had the kind of flame I really like which is very broad "tiger" striping mostly vertical in orientation.

[deeman]

I've read others here say that they grade the flame very subjectively.

 

Some dude looks at some wood, "this is AA" Looks at another piece "Okay, this is AAA" etc.

 

I imagine that there would be variances between shipments as far as the quality of the flame since we're talking about mother nature and different trees and such so that is why we see AAAA tops that look like they should be AA and vice versa.

[american cheez]

i was just thinking, considering the figuring i have seen on some tops, those trees must have been pretty darn big. they have to be sawn in a particular direction to produce that flame. a book matched les paul blank top is a fair sized chink of wood. i wonder how big those trees have to be (in diameter) to make them? how would someone even go about figuring that out? there must be a formula one could use to calculate it.

[rct]

Anyone can call any flame any thing they want. Thank Paul Reed and his "10 Top", that started the ever upward spiral of the number of As in a top. But none of it means anything. There are no Flame Top Police.

 

rct

[merciful-evans]

craigkim, My LP has that 3D effect flame. I rather like that it changes with POV & light source. That said, I would prefer not have anymore flame finishes on my guitars in future.

[craigkim]

Hey guys, I have looked at my LPs a little bit more and done some reading. It is unfair to say that my '17 HP has NO 3D or holographic effect to it. It would be more accurate to say that only the area below the tail piece has a 3D effect... there is asome there. The rest of it pretty much just looks like stripes painted on the surface of the top. As I mentioned, as you change 180 degrees in your viewing angle a stripe that appears light will change to dark and vice versa. Hardly what I woudl call "flame".

 

So, I decided to look in my copy of Beauty of the Burst and see if there were any references to the difference between figuring with 3 dimensionality or the more flat 2D looking figuring. I found a spot on a featured collector in the back, can't remember the name,but he was asked what he would call figuring that doesn't have the 3D effect. He indicated that he would refer to that as "curl" and not "flame", indicating that the term flame would be reserved for the 3D variety.

 

I realize there is no standardized grading of tops, just wondered why some guitars are highly figured but don't seem very "flamey". Or is there a process that can turn figure into flame that is reserved for the custom shop and isn't used even on the more highly figured Gibson USA tops?

[Black Dog]

The only person who had a real flame top was Hendrix.

 

Yeah, but Carrot Top is the only person that IS a real flame top. Definitely AAA and 3D. I'm just not sure if he is gloss or VOS.

[rct]

I realize there is no standardized grading of tops, just wondered why some guitars are highly figured but don't seem very "flamey". Or is there a process that can turn figure into flame that is reserved for the custom shop and isn't used even on the more highly figured Gibson USA tops?

 

1. Figured is the right word. "flame" became the standard description, usually used by someone selling something. Figure is the word because the figuring of wood can be quite a few different appearances, "flame" included. "Birds eye", "striped", "curl(y, ed)", "silk", buncha words for the characteristics of maple or spruce or whatever finished wood.

 

2. No, there is no process that creates "flame". The Custom Shop, if it is the same as the other two companies and I have no reason to doubt that, buys their own blanks that the regular production guys don't even see, and vice versa. There is no head scratching and beard stroking while deciding what goes where.

 

rct