AndyJackson Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Hi Folks, Newbie to this forum, but not to guitars in general... just received a new 2016 LP Traditional HP Desert Burst from Sweetwater. I had the robo-tuners replaced with Grover nickel tuners before they shipped it to me. This model has the titanium zero fret nut, which I thought sounded like a good feature, given nut issues I've had with 3 prior LPs... however.... I'm having a tuning issue though that I've never seen before. If I tune the guitar low E to high E (using an electronic tuner), when I get through the low E and A have gone sharp, significantly. It's proving nearly impossible to get all of the strings in tune at the same time. Tuning the higher strings seems to have the most effect on the lower strings, making them go sharp. My suspicion was that the nut was being depressed by tension when tuning the strings on the high side, pushing it up on the low side and therefore making the lower strings (low E and A) go sharp. Called Sweetwater and talked to their support team who said they didn't believe the nut could be moving. But if that's not it, I'm at a loss. Increased tension on the neck from tuning up other strings would make strings already tuned go flat rather than sharp. So, anybody have a clue on this? The setup on the guitar was decent when I got it. Relief looks proper. I tried lowering the nut a bit because it was higher than I liked, but the problem still happens. Bridge looks ok and intonation is ok for each string. Tuners seem solid and installed nicely. Just seems really weird that strings are going sharp rather than flat. I'm to the point of wanting to install a more standard nut, but haven't gotten to the point of sorting out what the proper size would be to fit in the nut slot. Looks like the Graph Tech TUSQ XL nuts would be good but I need to determine which one has the proper string spacing, width, and thickness. And I'm a little concerned about whether a standard nut would give me the same distance from the nut to first fret as the zero fret nut?? Never had problems setting up a guitar myself before, but this one has me beat... anybody who's experienced this and has a potential solution would be awesome! Thanks, Andy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard McCoy Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Pics please, of the headstock too. So you never get the guitar totally in tune even after pre-stretching the strings? I take it you got no locking tuners installed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJackson Posted December 12, 2017 Author Share Posted December 12, 2017 Right, I can't get all the strings in tune at the same time. Every time I adjust one string, it causes one or two others to go sharp. The strings are stretched, they are properly wound on the tuning pegs, and the tuning machines all turn smoothly, and nothing seems loose... they are standard Grover/Gibson modern nickel tuners - not locking. Nothing looks out of sorts with the bridge. The tailpiece is a bit oddly angled - it is much higher off the body on the low E side than the high E side, but it looks like they set it up that way at Sweetwater to be roughly parallel to the angle of the bridge. some pics are attached... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted December 12, 2017 Share Posted December 12, 2017 Is the nut properly secured? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJackson Posted December 12, 2017 Author Share Posted December 12, 2017 the 2016 Z-FAN has a screw in the center to secure it... I was thinking perhaps that was the culprit, so I checked it, and made sure it was tightened. It behaved the same after checking it, so that didn't appear to be the prob... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJackson Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 Last night I loosened and pulled the strings aside and unscrewed the top portion of the nut to see how it fit into the lower channel. Well, it really doesn't seat very securely into the lower channel - it has a lot of movement and play when just sitting in the channel without being screwed in. When I then re-secured it with the center screw it seemed reasonably secure to the touch, but I'm not really convinced that under the tension and pressure of six strings that it isn't moving a tiny bit, which could cause pitch differences. I put some string lube on the slots and put the strings back in place and retuned the guitar. It seemed to tune a bit better than before, but I didn't get to spend enough time checking it out to see if the problem was really solved. Will report back after I get to check it out further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rct Posted December 13, 2017 Share Posted December 13, 2017 When you tune from skinny E to fat E do the E and B sharpen up when yer done? rct Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJackson Posted December 13, 2017 Author Share Posted December 13, 2017 Yep, they did before... but it was more significant the other direction. I didn't get enough time to check to see if they were still doing it last night though. When I tightened the top part of the nut into place last night, I held it firmly in the direction of the headstock as I tightened the screw (thinking that that is the direction it gets pulled as strings get tuned up, and therefore that "might" take some of the play out of the equation)... it was really surprising how loosely the top part fits in the channel. Just doesn't seem like the greatest engineering job on it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pinch Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Welcome to the forum! I'd be... wary. I know you had the tuners replaced and all, but it's a lot of money. If I ever bought a guitar that expensive, I would demand absolute perfection. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Farnsbarns Posted December 14, 2017 Share Posted December 14, 2017 Just to check. Your nut is 2 pieces, right? One piece attached to the guitar and the other has 2 grub screws for adjusting the height at each end and a central screw to clamp it down when it's been adjusted? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJackson Posted December 15, 2017 Author Share Posted December 15, 2017 Yes that's exactly right. Two pieces, with 3 screws... After putting some lube on the slots and tightening down the center screw really tight (to the point of worrying about stripping it), it seemed to be better last night. Didn't get to fool with it for long, but it did actually seem to be more stable tuning-wise... will spend more time with it this weekend and see how it does. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJackson Posted December 27, 2017 Author Share Posted December 27, 2017 here's the latest update... I decided to strip everything down and put it back together again, and changed from 9-46 to 10-46 strings. Once I had the strings off and was checking everything the main observations were that the nut seems to be pretty solidly in place now. What isn't very solid is the bridge - without any strings holding it in place it was very loose and wobbly. When I lifted the bridge itself off the posts, the posts themselves are loose and wobbly in the holes they screw into. It's been years since I've had a LP (this is my 4th) but I don't remember the bridge and posts being that loose on my previous LPs. Is that normal? Anyway, after checking everything and then putting new strings on, I did a complete setup. I had done a quick setup when I got it because the setup from Sweetwater was actually very disappointing. The tailpiece was all jacked up on the low E side out of alignment with the bridge - not sure why they would have done it that way. And the action was way more than twice as high on the low E side as the high E side - again, pretty surprising and basically unplayable when I got it. I certainly wouldn't expect anyone else's setup to be an exact match to my preferences out of the box, but man, it was like it just came off the wall at Guitar Center! But, after restringing and setting it up again (nut adjustment and bridge adjustments for action, proper relief setting with truss rod, and intonation adjustments) it's now pretty close to optimal. And I will say, the neck on this guitar is superb - no dead or buzzy spots anywhere at all. As for the previous problem of tuning being affected on some strings when tuning the other strings, that seems to no longer be happening - so far. I tend to still think the cause was the center screw in the nut not being firmly tightened down. The only nagging thing right now is how loose the bridge and bridge posts are, and whether that's going to cause a lack of stability. The little bit I've been able to play it so far, it hasn't seemed too bad, but I really haven't gotten to play it too much since I set it up. Time will tell I suppose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyJackson Posted January 31, 2018 Author Share Posted January 31, 2018 Well, after all the drama I've been through with this guitar since receiving it, I have tweaked and tweaked the setup, and it now plays actually better than I ever hoped. The relief was easy to get set, and I haven't changed that. I've just tweaked the action and intonation and now it has nice low action with no string buzz anywhere and it is properly intonated everywhere along the neck. And there's none of the irritating out of tune results on the first 3 frets, since the adjustable nut allowed me to get the string height lowered enough to prevent that, without causing any string buzz. On a scale of 1-10 I'd truly say it's playing at 9.99 right now. Not sure what the remaining .01 might be, but hey, nothing's perfect! And the tone is ruly awesome.... makes me remember how my 1981 LP Custom sounded and played, which I stupidly sold long ago! As wonderful a guitar as my PRS Custom 22 was (that I just sold) in terms of setup and playability, the tone on this LP just sets it apart. Very happy now! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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