Gibson Brands Forums: The BEST Nut for your 2015 Gibson - Gibson Brands Forums

Jump to content

  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

The BEST Nut for your 2015 Gibson

#21 User is offline   Roach 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 327
  • Joined: 06-February 16

Posted 04 January 2018 - 11:21 PM

View Postmerciful-evans, on 01 January 2018 - 07:02 AM, said:

What is going wrong?

What string gauges are you using?
What tuners? Are you making enough winds about the posts?
Are the new strings stretched sufficiently?
Have you set the zero fret nut height higher than regular nut?


i had mentioned my problem before and i cant find the thread or post cause its too old...i use 10-42 daddario XL.
i have the titanum replacement for the original brass one i have no gforce but i have had 21:1 ratio gotoh
tuners professionally installed by luthier who has worked on my titanum nut and this problem but did not
solve it. i am using daddario friction remover lube on nut and bridge,
THE PROBLEM IS the low e and the a strings. Ill tune either one to pitch or just a bit flat and then the
other one goes sharp almost another semitone. so ill tune down then up to the note or just flat and the
other string goes way sharp...it is nearly impossible to tune it and i am on the verge of giving up entirely
on playing because i cannot train my ear or voice when my reference cant even be in tune and im tired
of sounding like crap with a real gibson usa les paul just because i cannot tune it or keep it in tune and
yes i stretch the strings when installing them.

how many winds am i supposed to make? this last time i have 3 winds on E and 4 on the A OR just
a half wind shy of that... ill check the height but i know its higher just maybe in 64ths at the bridge end
of the fretboard and too much lower it would probably buzz at first frets the action

only answer i ever get is..."it shouldnt do that... SO im seriously considering this nut from this thread
cause my 2000 LP which has a bone nut has over time made its own grooves which are angled exactly
like this one here so the design is perfect... in theory...
Posted Image
2018 Gibson Explorer Elite
2015 Les Paul Studio (MM)
2000 Les Paul Special w/hums

Yamaha FS-311 7/8ths scale Acoustic
Marshall JCM2000 DSL 401 12" CG 40w
-1

#22 User is offline   Pinch 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 1426
  • Joined: 15-January 15

Posted 05 January 2018 - 06:24 AM

I find the number of winds usually don't matter. My low E string on my V currently has, like, half a wind, and it stays in tune just as well as when it has two winds.
0

#23 User is offline   merciful-evans 

  • upstanding member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 3483
  • Joined: 28-May 15
  • LocationPortsmouth UK

Posted 05 January 2018 - 06:51 AM

View PostRoach, on 04 January 2018 - 11:21 PM, said:


THE PROBLEM IS the low e and the a strings. Ill tune either one to pitch or just a bit flat and then the
other one goes sharp almost another semitone. so ill tune down then up to the note or just flat and the
other string goes way sharp...it is nearly impossible to tune it and i am on the verge of giving up entirely
on playing because i cannot train my ear or voice when my reference cant even be in tune and im tired
of sounding like crap with a real gibson usa les paul just because i cannot tune it or keep it in tune and
yes i stretch the strings when installing them.

how many winds am i supposed to make? this last time i have 3 winds on E and 4 on the A OR just
a half wind shy of that... ill check the height but i know its higher just maybe in 64ths at the bridge end
of the fretboard and too much lower it would probably buzz at first frets the action

only answer i ever get is..."it shouldnt do that... SO im seriously considering this nut from this thread
cause my 2000 LP which has a bone nut has over time made its own grooves which are angled exactly
like this one here so the design is perfect... in theory...


Since you are using regular (as Gibson would supply) strings there should be no binding in the titanium nut. Though to be sure, check that the nut is installed the correct way round.

Ok. The strings are stretched, so there should be no de-tuning going on there.

You didnt say whether the nut height was ok.

Quote

Have you set the zero fret nut height higher than regular nut?
though the problem you describe should not be affected by that.

Three string winds on the posts is fine for the low E & A strings.



This sounds like the sort of thing that can happen with a floating (trem) bridge. When note bending, the other strings de-tune. I presume you have a conventional TOM bridge & tailstop?


So it seems that when tuning one of the heavier E & A stings, the other is compensating for the change in tension.
That means something else is moving. Check carefully to ensure neither the bridge nor the nut is moving when you tune. They should be rock solid, with no forward/back nor up/down motion.

If you can confirm that, then the only other movement can be in the neck itself (or joint to body).

That is an unpleasant prospect, because the neck should be able to cope with the tension of regular strings in concert tuning easily. If it cant, then somethings is up with the neck. I had this happen to a guitar of mine. There was a hairline crack at the bottom of the neck a couple of inches from the headstock/volute. It could only just be seen when applying extra pressure to the neck (meaning gently pulling the headstock forwards).

To do this, look at the back of the neck while holding the body firmly and push the neck away from you. It should be gentle but firm pressure. You are looking for a tiny fissure, probably curved and likely closer the the headstock.

Good luck
I sometimes think; therefore I am intermittent
*
my band BLOWN OUT
0

#24 User is offline   Roach 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 327
  • Joined: 06-February 16

Posted 05 January 2018 - 09:54 AM

These are my tuners: Gotoh Locking 510 Delta Series Tuning Keys, Antique Chrome, 3x3, with hardware, 21:1

https://www.allparts...ers_p_3806.html
Ok the nut is installed the correct direction. The fret on the nut, is on the fretboard side as if it is an actual fret at the nut, which explains the name, zero fret nut, and the height is just enough to clear all the frets so there is no buzzing when the open note is played with a hard pluck. Ill try to measure the distance but i only have a standard ruler not any special tools for fine measuring.


There is nothing wrong with the neck. I am certain of that, but Ill try your suggested test. (ill edit this with result, it is still before sunrise right now, i will need more light). The guitar has only ever gone from the case to a workbench to the case to my lap, i sit down to play, with a strap still, and back to the case. and the case has only been from my bedroom floor to the car to the luthiers' workbench and back without falling ever. There cannot possibly be a crack in the neck unless it came from gibson or the store that way and i had it inspected before my 45 day return policy at gc was up to be sure there was no such problem. (not that it couldnt have been overlooked but it is unlikely.)

Also this problem is worse after changing strings. but i changed them 2 weeks ago and havent gotten it to tune yet.

If by "de-tuning" you mean going sharp...

I will tune say the A string, (after the D, G, B, and high E are tuned), then, with the A sting at pitch, I will mess around using only the 5 strings, playing the A chord, a D chord, some riffs, a minor... for a few minutes, stretch the string a bit and recheck the tuning, everything cool...

Then I go to the low E, tune it to pitch or a bit flat... ok same thing only to discover this time the my a string has gone sharp, almost to the next note. so i tune it flat to wind up to the pitch, check it do same thing, then my low E is sharp again almost to the next note. So i retune the low E, and A is again sharp back and forth all day...impossible, well super difficult, to finally find the balance where all the strings are tuned to pitch then guess what....the g string is always a bit off tune with the other strings when tuned at 440, this seems true on all guitars. So using harmonics at 5th at 7th i find a bit of oscillation, (spelling), between a pair somewhere and the whole process repeats omg. Im so frustrated.

I THANK this thread sincerely because i really think the nut may be exactly what i need. Thank you for asking me about my situation, but i am feeling a bit like I hijacked the thread and wonder if i shouldnt have brought it to a new thread?

This post has been edited by Roach: 05 January 2018 - 10:12 AM

Posted Image
2018 Gibson Explorer Elite
2015 Les Paul Studio (MM)
2000 Les Paul Special w/hums

Yamaha FS-311 7/8ths scale Acoustic
Marshall JCM2000 DSL 401 12" CG 40w
0

#25 User is offline   Roach 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 327
  • Joined: 06-February 16

Posted 05 January 2018 - 10:35 AM

View PostRevolution Six, on 22 December 2017 - 09:52 AM, said:

I have a 2015 SG Standard, this guitar is FAN-TAS-TIC ! The inlays are not plastic, they are made with real Mother of pearl .

Very resonant, very good finish, all 2015 Gibson I played are very good instruments.

The adjustable nut is a very good idea but I don' t like the material. I installed a Graph Tech TUSQ XL adjustable nut, nice vintage look and great sustain, this great nut is PnP




Where did you find this Revolution?
(sry if i jacked your thread, unintentional m8)
Posted Image
2018 Gibson Explorer Elite
2015 Les Paul Studio (MM)
2000 Les Paul Special w/hums

Yamaha FS-311 7/8ths scale Acoustic
Marshall JCM2000 DSL 401 12" CG 40w
0

#26 User is offline   merciful-evans 

  • upstanding member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 3483
  • Joined: 28-May 15
  • LocationPortsmouth UK

Posted 05 January 2018 - 11:39 AM

View PostRoach, on 05 January 2018 - 09:54 AM, said:

These are my tuners: Gotoh Locking 510 Delta Series Tuning Keys, Antique Chrome, 3x3, with hardware, 21:1

https://www.allparts...ers_p_3806.html


There cannot possibly be a crack in the neck unless it came from gibson or the store that way and i had it inspected before my 45 day return policy at gc was up to be sure there was no such problem. (not that it couldnt have been overlooked but it is unlikely.)

Also this problem is worse after changing strings. but i changed them 2 weeks ago and havent gotten it to tune yet.

If by "de-tuning" you mean going sharp...

I will tune say the A string, (after the D, G, B, and high E are tuned), then, with the A sting at pitch, I will mess around using only the 5 strings, playing the A chord, a D chord, some riffs, a minor... for a few minutes, stretch the string a bit and recheck the tuning, everything cool...

Then I go to the low E, tune it to pitch or a bit flat... ok same thing only to discover this time the my a string has gone sharp, almost to the next note. so i tune it flat to wind up to the pitch, check it do same thing, then my low E is sharp again almost to the next note. So i retune the low E, and A is again sharp back and forth all day...impossible, well super difficult, to finally find the balance where all the strings are tuned to pitch then guess what....the g string is always a bit off tune with the other strings when tuned at 440, this seems true on all guitars. So using harmonics at 5th at 7th i find a bit of oscillation, (spelling), between a pair somewhere and the whole process repeats omg. Im so frustrated.

I THANK this thread sincerely because i really think the nut may be exactly what i need. Thank you for asking me about my situation, but i am feeling a bit like I hijacked the thread and wonder if i shouldnt have brought it to a new thread?


By de-tuning, I mean going flat.

Forgive me if this sounds patronising but I am only trying to get this straight in my head. I assume you are tuning the strings upward? IOW, tuning to pitch having begun from a lower note?

So having tuned eBGDA upward to pitch, you then tune the low E upward to pitch. At this point you find the A has raised in pitch & become sharp?

If I have described that correctly, then I have no idea what is going on. If the neck is not holding tension (cracked) then tuning a string upward would make another string go flat. What you seem to be describing is that raising your low E in pitch, also raises your A string in pitch.

Any chance of a picture of the headstock & tuners? Though the best thing of all would be a video of the A & E tuning. I'm sure that would get plenty of interest here because its so bizarre a problem.




PS. Did the Gotoh 510s come fitted from the factory, or have they replaced something else?


BTW this thread is a repeat of one already posted before. A pretty much exact (even the same pictures) was posted earlier this year. Why? I can only think of one reason. For that reason I would not worry about it, but if you want to begin a new one, just post a link back to this one.

This post has been edited by merciful-evans: 05 January 2018 - 11:42 AM

I sometimes think; therefore I am intermittent
*
my band BLOWN OUT
0

#27 User is offline   Roach 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 327
  • Joined: 06-February 16

Posted 06 January 2018 - 04:58 PM

View Postmerciful-evans, on 05 January 2018 - 11:39 AM, said:

By de-tuning, I mean going flat.

Forgive me if this sounds patronising but I am only trying to get this straight in my head. I assume you are tuning the strings upward? IOW, tuning to pitch having begun from a lower note?

So having tuned eBGDA upward to pitch, you then tune the low E upward to pitch. At this point you find the A has raised in pitch & become sharp?


---------
YES... EXACTLY
-----------

If I have described that correctly, then I have no idea what is going on. If the neck is not holding tension (cracked) then tuning a string upward would make another string go flat. What you seem to be describing is that raising your low E in pitch, also raises your A string in pitch.

Any chance of a picture of the headstock & tuners? Though the best thing of all would be a video of the A & E tuning. I'm sure that would get plenty of interest here because its so bizarre a problem.




PS. Did the Gotoh 510s come fitted from the factory, or have they replaced something else?


BTW this thread is a repeat of one already posted before. A pretty much exact (even the same pictures) was posted earlier this year. Why? I can only think of one reason. For that reason I would not worry about it, but if you want to begin a new one, just post a link back to this one.


That is correct i tune from a lower pitch, UP to the pitch. Then do the other string, doesnt matter if A or E is first, it will raise the pitch to sharp of the other string, at first I believed stretching and hesitating a moment would allow time for tension to even out, but it still occurs like i described. Changing either A or E causes the other to go sharp. I apply pressure to the string on the tuner side of the nut and stretch it as well as at the bridge. I use lube from d'addario called friction remover, even had some lithium grease lube back in 2015.

I checked for cracks in neck. none. I did not get around to measuring the nut height i did however, lower it until the open string buzzed and then slow raised it until it didn't buzz at regular plucking. It didnt change anything other than slightly lowered the action on that end.
I do not have the video savvy to make and upload such a video, but i think you are right, nobody really knows what is doing this. My guitar guy first accused the nut, (the brass one had same problem), and then he did some fine filing work on the titanium one. I am wondering if he wasnt too cautious of over doing it that he didnt do enough being how hard titanium is to shape...

This post has been edited by Roach: 06 January 2018 - 04:59 PM

Posted Image
2018 Gibson Explorer Elite
2015 Les Paul Studio (MM)
2000 Les Paul Special w/hums

Yamaha FS-311 7/8ths scale Acoustic
Marshall JCM2000 DSL 401 12" CG 40w
0

#28 User is offline   merciful-evans 

  • upstanding member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 3483
  • Joined: 28-May 15
  • LocationPortsmouth UK

Posted 07 January 2018 - 09:05 AM

View PostRoach, on 06 January 2018 - 04:58 PM, said:



I checked for cracks in neck. none. I did not get around to measuring the nut height i did however, lower it until the open string buzzed and then slow raised it until it didn't buzz at regular plucking. It didnt change anything other than slightly lowered the action on that end.
I do not have the video savvy to make and upload such a video, but i think you are right, nobody really knows what is doing this. My guitar guy first accused the nut, (the brass one had same problem), and then he did some fine filing work on the titanium one. I am wondering if he wasnt too cautious of over doing it that he didnt do enough being how hard titanium is to shape...


If it was a neck crack it would cause the other string to go in the opposite direction (flat), so it isn't that.
If the nut is secure (not moving) then I dont see how it could be doing this.

How about the bridge? if its not perfectly stable perhaps its being pulled forwards slightly when you turn the tuners?

Or if its not the whole bridge moving, how about the string saddles? Are the 'A' & 'E' saddles interfering with each other when tuning? Is one dragging the other with it?

There has to be a cause!
I sometimes think; therefore I am intermittent
*
my band BLOWN OUT
0

#29 User is offline   Roach 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 327
  • Joined: 06-February 16

Posted 14 January 2018 - 11:44 PM

View Postmerciful-evans, on 07 January 2018 - 09:05 AM, said:

If it was a neck crack it would cause the other string to go in the opposite direction (flat), so it isn't that.
If the nut is secure (not moving) then I dont see how it could be doing this.

How about the bridge? if its not perfectly stable perhaps its being pulled forwards slightly when you turn the tuners?

Or if its not the whole bridge moving, how about the string saddles? Are the 'A' & 'E' saddles interfering with each other when tuning? Is one dragging the other with it?

There has to be a cause!


i am pretty sure the string and the nut are just not getting along for the thicker strings. I am trying to find out now if this nut from this thread is avail in black, looking forward to trying it.

...and now im noticing the paint in several places on the edges is disappearing! (side edge to bottom and top edge to side where a pickguard would be had i had one, next to the fretboard where the body top and side curve off the neck, mostly underside and side edge the biggest area...) That doesnt seem right.

This post has been edited by Roach: 14 January 2018 - 11:54 PM

Posted Image
2018 Gibson Explorer Elite
2015 Les Paul Studio (MM)
2000 Les Paul Special w/hums

Yamaha FS-311 7/8ths scale Acoustic
Marshall JCM2000 DSL 401 12" CG 40w
0

#30 User is offline   merciful-evans 

  • upstanding member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 3483
  • Joined: 28-May 15
  • LocationPortsmouth UK

Posted 15 January 2018 - 09:46 AM

View PostRoach, on 14 January 2018 - 11:44 PM, said:

i am pretty sure the string and the nut are just not getting along for the thicker strings. I am trying to find out now if this nut from this thread is avail in black, looking forward to trying it.



Unless the nut is being moved by the strings as you tune them (as in not properly secured down), the nut is not at fault.
I sometimes think; therefore I am intermittent
*
my band BLOWN OUT
0

#31 User is offline   Revolution Six 

  • Only a Gibson !
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 617
  • Joined: 07-December 16

Posted 21 January 2018 - 03:56 AM

View PostRoach, on 05 January 2018 - 10:35 AM, said:

Where did you find this Revolution?
(sry if i jacked your thread, unintentional m8)


The Kluson Revolution tuners come from eBay, very easy to order and secure with Paypal. The price is correct US$ 65 shipping included

Kluson Revolution # KEDP-3801C

Those great machine heads are available in nickel, gold, chrome and with different knobs. I looked to your GOTOH tuners 200 US$ ...

Posted Image

Talking about your tuning problem, some string brands don' t like the zero fret nut, a larger contact surface with the string is the solution like a standard nut.
Round wound strings can be incompatible with the zero fret nut.

The Graph Tech TUSQ XL adjustable nut is THE solution IMHO.
Posted Image
0

#32 User is offline   ChristopherJ 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 111
  • Joined: 04-January 11

Posted 25 January 2018 - 11:37 AM

The only way for strings to go sharp is binding at the nut. You turn the tuning key to bring the string up to pitch but if the string is bound up somewhere it takes more turns from the tuner. When you strike the string the bind is released and the extra turns it took to tune up to pitch causes the string to pull sharp. Another way to look at it is that tension from the tuning peg to the nut is more than from the bridge to the nut. That extra tension is added to the enire string when played releasing the bind. The typical "tink" sound that can often be heard when tuning to up.

Most likely the nut. Adding lube doesn't necessarily solve such issues.

This post has been edited by ChristopherJ: 25 January 2018 - 11:38 AM

0

#33 User is offline   rct 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 8949
  • Joined: 31-March 11
  • LocationSouthern New Jersey

Posted 25 January 2018 - 11:49 AM

View PostChristopherJ, on 25 January 2018 - 11:37 AM, said:

The only way for strings to go sharp is binding at the nut.


Play too close to the door in a bar on a cold winter's night.

rct
0

#34 User is offline   kidblast 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 9741
  • Joined: 29-March 12
  • LocationCentral Mass (U.S.A.)

Posted 25 January 2018 - 12:04 PM

View Postrct, on 25 January 2018 - 11:49 AM, said:

Play too close to the door in a bar on a cold winter's night.

rct




Ron,, I would have thought you would generate enough of your own heat with your face melting, ultra killer, sonicaly orgasmic, amazingly stellar, captivatingly clever solos you play? :-k
/Ray
0

#35 User is offline   rct 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 8949
  • Joined: 31-March 11
  • LocationSouthern New Jersey

Posted 25 January 2018 - 12:08 PM

[laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh] [laugh]

You mean panty melting.

rct

This post has been edited by rct: 25 January 2018 - 12:08 PM

0

#36 User is offline   kidblast 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 9741
  • Joined: 29-March 12
  • LocationCentral Mass (U.S.A.)

Posted 25 January 2018 - 12:17 PM

LOL! Damn, I forgot panty melting...
/Ray
0

#37 User is offline   Louparte 

  • Newbie
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 1
  • Joined: 12-December 17

Posted 25 January 2018 - 10:21 PM

View Postkidblast, on 25 January 2018 - 12:17 PM, said:

LOL! Damn, I forgot panty melting...


Titanium for my 2015 Special. I may put one on my 2017 Faded too.
0

#38 User is offline   212West 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 109
  • Joined: 26-September 15
  • LocationNorth Carolina

Posted 28 January 2018 - 08:12 PM

The nut and G-Force tuners on my 2015 Midtown were all changed at Gibson
It arrived just requiring a change of strings.
I haven't even had it set-up!
It's held up fine
and they usually require work right away.
Not this one.
Gibson SG Standard Wal
Gibson Midtown Standard VS
Gibson Les Paul Tribute'17 HCSB
Epiphone LE ES 335-Pro IT
Epiphone Les Paul Custom 100th Ann. Na
Epiphone Les Paul Custom/Artisan (L.M.)
Epiphone Les Paul Custom 'Insp. By' '55
Epiphone Les Paul Std. PTP Bb
Epiphone Thunderbird IV Pro VS
Fender Jaguar (6 String) SG
Ampeg PF 800 115/210
Orange CR 35RT
0

#39 User is offline   Roach 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 327
  • Joined: 06-February 16

Posted 02 February 2018 - 10:40 AM

View PostChristopherJ, on 25 January 2018 - 11:37 AM, said:

The only way for strings to go sharp is binding at the nut. You turn the tuning key to bring the string up to pitch but if the string is bound up somewhere it takes more turns from the tuner. When you strike the string the bind is released and the extra turns it took to tune up to pitch causes the string to pull sharp. Another way to look at it is that tension from the tuning peg to the nut is more than from the bridge to the nut. That extra tension is added to the enire string when played releasing the bind. The typical "tink" sound that can often be heard when tuning to up.

Most likely the nut. Adding lube doesn't necessarily solve such issues.




This seems like what is happening. Would the angle of the strings after the bridge to the stopbar tail play a role in this tension issue?


View PostRevolution Six, on 21 January 2018 - 03:56 AM, said:


Talking about your tuning problem, some string brands don' t like the zero fret nut, a larger contact surface with the string is the solution like a standard nut.
Round wound strings can be incompatible with the zero fret nut.

The Graph Tech TUSQ XL adjustable nut is THE solution IMHO.




i use d'addario exl110's 10-46 nickel and they are round wound

This post has been edited by Roach: 02 February 2018 - 10:49 AM

Posted Image
2018 Gibson Explorer Elite
2015 Les Paul Studio (MM)
2000 Les Paul Special w/hums

Yamaha FS-311 7/8ths scale Acoustic
Marshall JCM2000 DSL 401 12" CG 40w
0

#40 User is offline   ChristopherJ 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 111
  • Joined: 04-January 11

Posted 02 February 2018 - 02:52 PM

View PostRoach, on 02 February 2018 - 10:40 AM, said:

Would the angle of the strings after the bridge to the stopbar tail play a role in this tension issue?



Nope. That would work the opposite, you would have the strings going flat.
0

Share this topic:


  • (3 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users