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Epi Les Paul - cracked neck heel joint

#21 User is offline   rct 

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 07:08 PM

View Postmihcmac, on 23 January 2018 - 04:18 PM, said:

Sorry if my explanations went off the deep end. I was trying to illustrate how a Skilled craftsman in Asia could replace several necks a day.

Most of the Gibson style counterfeit guitars are made using Epiphone parts, Epiphone is not in the counterfeit business. they don't have to be, they are licensed builders. There have been a ton of youtube videos by accredited luthiers dismantling and examining Chibson's finding Epiphone labeled hardware. This doesn't mean Epiphone is supplying them but they are using Epiphone materials and could be supplied by vendors. I have been researching this topic for a long time. Checkout Aliexpress's link below..


No thanks, I have a great Les Paul.

View Postmihcmac, on 23 January 2018 - 04:18 PM, said:

This type of thing isn't unusual. When I was a kid we used to buy Amps made at home by workers that were employed by Massey Electronics. Massey Electronics built the original Fender amps.


No. Just no. Just no, stop saying that, stop repeating it, it just is not true. There is no evidence anywhere, from anyone, that anyone but Leo and his shop made his amps, not ever. The St. George that everyone thinks is some kind of clandestine Fender is not, it was commissioned by Georges Music, he knew all about that amp that somehow got this rep. And you are not helping by repeating that.

So, again, just no to "Massey Electronics built the original Fender amps". No.

View Postmihcmac, on 23 January 2018 - 04:18 PM, said:

Not to detract from ChrisD70's topic there is something really wrong with his Les Paul Prophecy, which I'm sure cost quite a bit more than $300. Closely examine his photo.
the attached image is a China Gibson..


I don't care about fake guitars, how they are made, who makes them, why, how much they get for them. I just don't care.

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#22 User is offline   mihcmac 

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 08:13 PM

good for you...
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#23 User is offline   mihcmac 

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Posted 23 January 2018 - 11:32 PM

View PostChrisD70, on 23 January 2018 - 05:37 PM, said:

I think you may be right about this being an intentional cut, not a crack as it looked to me. I've been in contact with the retailer and they sent me photos of 3 different Epi LPs with the same placement of the cutout.

I've sent an inquiry to Gibson as well to get confirmation, or not, and waiting to hear back. I'll update the post.

Thanks for all the input!

There is another critical option I forgot to mention.. If your guitar sounds and plays good don't mess with it.. :)
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#24 User is offline   rct 

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 08:00 AM

View Postmihcmac, on 23 January 2018 - 08:13 PM, said:

good for you...


Good for me is fine, I'm fine with that. Whatever your deal is with Epiphones and super secret counterfeit building is fine too, so I came on a little strong in front of all these people and I apologize for that in front of all these people.

But not the Massey stuff. That is just not true, it is wrong, and it should not be repeated. Things are on the internet all the time that just are not true, that's a great example of them. Unfortunately for whomever that Massey idea benefits, the entire history of Leo is written down, and a great starting place is The Sound Heard Round The World, a really comprehensive man and company biography. Check it out someday, and then you won't repeat such things.

Good luck with your guitars and with trying to help the original poster, that's what really matters.

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#25 User is offline   mihcmac 

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:02 AM

View Postrct, on 24 January 2018 - 08:00 AM, said:

But not the Massey stuff.

rct


I removed my comments about the Massey stuff.. I misspelled Massie...I visited the Massie Plant in the pre CBS days with an employee, I was very young, we just walked in the back door and I may have misunderstood what I thought I saw. The plant was just a warehouse with work benches that had amp components spread on them.

This post has been edited by mihcmac: 24 January 2018 - 11:17 AM

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#26 User is offline   rct 

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:09 AM

View Postmihcmac, on 24 January 2018 - 11:02 AM, said:

I removed my comments about the Massey stuff.. I misspelled Massie...I visited the Massie Plant in the pre CBS days with an employee, I was very young, we just walked in the back door and I may have misunderstood what I thought I saw. The plant was just a warehouse with work benches that had amp components spread on them.


Well yeah, and they made pretty good amps, a lot of people still hunt them down. Somehow in there, there was a guy that worked for Leo with that last name, but was not the person involved with those amps. He has never been connected but it persisted. It was supposed to be the St. George was really a Fender for about 1/3 the price, but it wasn't. Those that have had them apart find them remarkably similar to what Rickenbacher once made, not at all Fenderish.

It would have been cool to have seen that.

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#27 User is offline   mihcmac 

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 11:24 AM

View Postrct, on 24 January 2018 - 11:09 AM, said:

Well yeah, and they made pretty good amps, a lot of people still hunt them down. Somehow in there, there was a guy that worked for Leo with that last name, but was not the person involved with those amps. He has never been connected but it persisted. It was supposed to be the St. George was really a Fender for about 1/3 the price, but it wasn't. Those that have had them apart find them remarkably similar to what Rickenbacher once made, not at all Fenderish.

It would have been cool to have seen that.

rct


Ray Massie was one of Leo Fenders chief designers.


I owned a few new Epiphones before production went overseas. They were great guitars I preferred them over Gibsons. Seeing a production flaw was very distressing for me. My view on Chriss's thread was very myopic only seeing the crack and not seeing the beautiful guitar he fell in love with.

The Epiphones I own now are all excellent Asian built guitars, between them and my Gibson's I have a hard time deciding which one to play.

This post has been edited by mihcmac: 24 January 2018 - 12:03 PM

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#28 User is offline   Black Dog 

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:03 PM

This is interesting. I have a 2015 Epi Black Beauty. I recently swapped out all the electronics and hardware on it. I took a look at one of the pictures I took when it was disassembled and it looks like it has the same "crack". I bet these are not cracks but rather cuts. Possibly some shortcut way of fitting the neck?

It's hard to see in this picture but if I zoom in on it there is definitely a "cut" there in the exact same place as your guitar.

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#29 User is offline   mihcmac 

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 12:24 PM

View PostBlack Dog, on 24 January 2018 - 12:03 PM, said:

This is interesting. I have a 2015 Epi Black Beauty. I recently swapped out all the electronics and hardware on it. I took a look at one of the pictures I took when it was disassembled and it looks like it has the same "crack". I bet these are not cracks but rather cuts. Possibly some shortcut way of fitting the neck?

It's hard to see in this picture but if I zoom in on it there is definitely a "cut" there in the exact same place as your guitar.



Great image by the way. I think yours looks the way it is supposed to. The crack being a seem between the body and the neck. It doesn't look like there is a gap in it like Chriss's.
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#30 User is offline   Black Dog 

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 02:44 PM

View Postmihcmac, on 24 January 2018 - 12:24 PM, said:

Great image by the way. I think yours looks the way it is supposed to. The crack being a seem between the body and the neck. It doesn't look like there is a gap in it like Chriss's.


Yes, but I don't see it on the other side. Also, I didn't think all these guitars had a deep set neck (are they even set that deep?). I had a Tribute Plus that had a deep set neck, but that was unique among the contemporary Epi's.
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#31 User is offline   bobouz 

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 03:03 PM

View Postmihcmac, on 24 January 2018 - 11:24 AM, said:

I owned a few new Epiphones before production went overseas. They were great guitars I preferred them over Gibsons.

Would assusme you know that from 1958 to 1969, Epiphones were built by Gibson in Kalamazoo - but wanted to clarify just in case. Some were direct clones of Gibson models, while others were quite unique.

Overseas production started in 1970 in Japan, although a few remaining instruments dribbled out of Kalamazoo that year.
> Gibsons: '22 "A" Mandolin / '66 ES 125T / '66 Epi FT-45n Cortez (B-25) / '90 Tennessean
'00 J-100 Xtra / '02 J-45 Rosewood / '02 SG Faded-moon / '09 ES 339 / '10 ES 330L
'11 ES 335-P90s / '12 ES 330 VOS / '12 LP Special / '12 J-185
'13 LG2-AE / '13 Midtown Kalamazoo / '14 J-15 / '15 J-50 CS
> Epiphones: '00 AIUSA-John Lee Hooker 1964 Sheraton / '05 McCartney 1964 Texan (Terada)
'09 Elitist 1965 Casino / > Ibanez: '81 M-340 / > Breedlove: '10 American Series OO Mandolin
> Guilds: '73 F-30R / '74 F-40 / '76 G-37 / '92 D-6 / '94 JF-30 / '97 Starfire / '14 Savoy A-150b
> Martins: '00 OOO-16 / '01 Custom Rosewood Dreadnought
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#32 User is offline   vomer 

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 03:56 PM

I saw the same recently on a Burny LP from the 1990's/early 2000's. The neck was stable and secure and had survived like that for 15+ years. I don't know why they are like this, but if the neck is secure I wouldn't worry about it too much. It should be interesting to see what Gibson say.
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1973 EA250. Sold!
2004 Sheraton II with TonePros bridge, Bare Knuckle Mississippi Queen, and TV Jones T-90 at the bridge; push-pull for phase switching.
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#33 User is offline   mihcmac 

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Posted 24 January 2018 - 06:27 PM

View PostBlack Dog, on 24 January 2018 - 02:44 PM, said:

Yes, but I don't see it on the other side. Also, I didn't think all these guitars had a deep set neck (are they even set that deep?). I had a Tribute Plus that had a deep set neck, but that was unique among the contemporary Epi's.

Chris showed examples with small gaps on the right side of the neck between the neck and the body, his LP gap looked wider with a wood anomaly on the neck side of the gap that looked like it might be a wedge.. only on the right side, the left side of the neck is not undercut. The good thing is that in most cases this would not effect the structural integrity there is still plenty of neck bonded to the body...... If the guitar plays good and sounds good there shouldn't be any problem it might even sustain better with a slight resonating cavity in it.

View Postbobouz, on 24 January 2018 - 03:03 PM, said:

Would assusme you know that from 1958 to 1969, Epiphones were built by Gibson in Kalamazoo - but wanted to clarify just in case. Some were direct clones of Gibson models, while others were quite unique.

Overseas production started in 1970 in Japan, although a few remaining instruments dribbled out of Kalamazoo that year.

The dates sound about right in the mid 60s I had a green 64 Coronet and white 65 Wilshire some of my favorite Epiphone electrics both with the batwing headstock, also a 65 jumbo body 12 string, I really wish I still had them now. Also a Kalamazoo SG style Bass but it came along much later, along with every time I found an affordable batwing headstock Epiphone I bought it..

note I took these guitars apart and did different things to them but never did they have gaps. I have had quite a few Gibson style guitars and took them all apart and no gaps.. I currently have an Epi 61 SG reissue and a Blueshawk They do not have gaps. My LP junior DC has a bolt on neck so it doesn't count but its neck fits tightly into the body..

On this thread is the first time I have ever seen gaps between the neck and R body.. It was a bit of a shock.. I guess that means I haven't seen everything yet.. When I have people will be kicking dirt on top of me..

This post has been edited by mihcmac: 24 January 2018 - 07:53 PM

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