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Gibson Les Paul Model 9-0643 - Any other Info based on pics

#1 User is offline   skyf 

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 07:50 AM

Hello,
I have a few guitars I'm seeking info for but will take me some time to photograph them. My step-father recently passed away and we are trying to figure out what to do with them. I am looking to find the information and confirm if they are a re-issue and their finer details (type of top, etc), and general value. My sister legally owns them and I think she wants to sell them but I would like to keep them and will probably have to offer to buy them from her. Below are photos I have of the first one. I will post others as I can. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Link to full album here: https://1drv.ms/f/s!...jadgyMVrieP3NhQ

It won't let me use the image button to show the images in this post - says it's not allowed so not sure what I am doing wrong. Won't accept my link to the photo.
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#2 User is offline   Johnny 6 String 

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 03:25 PM

View Postskyf, on 12 March 2018 - 07:50 AM, said:

Hello,
I have a few guitars I'm seeking info for but will take me some time to photograph them. My step-father recently passed away and we are trying to figure out what to do with them. I am looking to find the information and confirm if they are a re-issue and their finer details (type of top, etc), and general value. My sister legally owns them and I think she wants to sell them but I would like to keep them and will probably have to offer to buy them from her. Below are photos I have of the first one. I will post others as I can. Any help is greatly appreciated.

Link to full album here: https://1drv.ms/f/s!...jadgyMVrieP3NhQ

It won't let me use the image button to show the images in this post - says it's not allowed so not sure what I am doing wrong. Won't accept my link to the photo.



Hi Skyf;

I want to say it's a 1979 Les Paul standard. Regular USA line production. Looks to be in good condition, some finish wear and checking, etc, no signs of serious abuse from these pics. Price will vary depending on location and demand etc, but around where I am you'd be looking somewhere around $2000.

Love the colour.

Hope that helps.

Johnny
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#3 User is offline   pippy 

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 04:44 PM

It's a curious one.

It has a metal 'control plate' in the vol/tone cavity yet has a Les Paul M O D E L (as opposed to a Les Paul MODEL - the spacing is significant) silkscreen.
The truss rod cover is regular Les Paul fare but it has an ABR-1 bridge which is only used on certain other models. I can't see any evidence of screw-holes for a pickguard. The trapezoid inlays look to have rounded points. It has single-ring Klusons but with large bushings. Is there a dot over the 'i' in the Gibson headstock inlay?

It's almost certainly not a Custom Shop Re-issue as there are far too many things which are incorrect - especially the metal control plate - but some details are at odds with certain others.

It does have several things which are not 'normal' for a regular Les Paul. One of the most obvious things is the serial number which is ink stamped (rather than stamped/impressed into the wood) and that fact, taken with the particular typeface used, suggest it is most probably a Les Paul '1960 Classic' dating from 1999. There are a couple of things which seem slightly odd for that model, though, and that year and so I'd like to see more detailed pictures of several things and confirmation of other aspectsbefore committing myself further.

Could you tell us what the numbers stamped onto the rear of the volume and tone pots are? This would greatly help in determining an approximate date of manufacture - assuming the pots are the originals. After that we will be on a much firmer footing.

Pip.

This post has been edited by pippy: 12 March 2018 - 05:28 PM

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#4 User is offline   skyf 

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 07:00 PM

I will try to snap the additional photos tomorrow and post when I've added them to the album. Thank you so much for trying to help me know more about it.

View Postpippy, on 12 March 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

It's a curious one.

It has a metal 'control plate' in the vol/tone cavity yet has a Les Paul M O D E L (as opposed to a Les Paul MODEL - the spacing is significant) silkscreen.
The truss rod cover is regular Les Paul fare but it has an ABR-1 bridge which is only used on certain other models. I can't see any evidence of screw-holes for a pickguard. The trapezoid inlays look to have rounded points. It has single-ring Klusons but with large bushings. Is there a dot over the 'i' in the Gibson headstock inlay?

It's almost certainly not a Custom Shop Re-issue as there are far too many things which are incorrect - especially the metal control plate - but some details are at odds with certain others.

It does have several things which are not 'normal' for a regular Les Paul. One of the most obvious things is the serial number which is ink stamped (rather than stamped/impressed into the wood) and that fact, taken with the particular typeface used, suggest it is most probably a Les Paul '1960 Classic' dating from 1999. There are a couple of things which seem slightly odd for that model, though, and that year and so I'd like to see more detailed pictures of several things and confirmation of other aspectsbefore committing myself further.

Could you tell us what the numbers stamped onto the rear of the volume and tone pots are? This would greatly help in determining an approximate date of manufacture - assuming the pots are the originals. After that we will be on a much firmer footing.

Pip.

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#5 User is offline   Johnny 6 String 

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Posted 12 March 2018 - 08:54 PM

View Postpippy, on 12 March 2018 - 04:44 PM, said:

It's a curious one.

It has a metal 'control plate' in the vol/tone cavity yet has a Les Paul M O D E L (as opposed to a Les Paul MODEL - the spacing is significant) silkscreen.
The truss rod cover is regular Les Paul fare but it has an ABR-1 bridge which is only used on certain other models. I can't see any evidence of screw-holes for a pickguard. The trapezoid inlays look to have rounded points. It has single-ring Klusons but with large bushings. Is there a dot over the 'i' in the Gibson headstock inlay?

It's almost certainly not a Custom Shop Re-issue as there are far too many things which are incorrect - especially the metal control plate - but some details are at odds with certain others.

It does have several things which are not 'normal' for a regular Les Paul. One of the most obvious things is the serial number which is ink stamped (rather than stamped/impressed into the wood) and that fact, taken with the particular typeface used, suggest it is most probably a Les Paul '1960 Classic' dating from 1999. There are a couple of things which seem slightly odd for that model, though, and that year and so I'd like to see more detailed pictures of several things and confirmation of other aspectsbefore committing myself further.

Could you tell us what the numbers stamped onto the rear of the volume and tone pots are? This would greatly help in determining an approximate date of manufacture - assuming the pots are the originals. After that we will be on a much firmer footing.

Pip.



Ah there's the keen eye of Pip, there I was ready to blame the oddities I saw on Norlan (missed the ABR too). Pot codes look to date form 89 since you went all scientific like....so again my Norlan suggestion is way off the mark.

Skyf, you are in very good hands here, Pippy has probably forgotten more than about LP's than I've known.


Johnny
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#6 User is offline   pippy 

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 03:50 AM

View PostJohnny 6 String, on 12 March 2018 - 08:54 PM, said:

Pot codes look to date form 89......

Thank you, Johnny, for the above nugget. I didn't realise the images were actually large when I looked yesterday evening. Having now downloaded a few there's even more confusion but also some clarity!

First-off the pot codes date to weeks 38-40 of 1989. So far so good.
It isn't a 1960 Classic. A 1960 Classic from 1989 (first year of manufacture) would have an ink-stamped serial but the format would have been X YYY as there were fewer than 1000 made. Also the 1960 Classic would have had sharp-point trap' inlays and a pickguard; this has round-point inlays and no holes drilled for a 'guard. We are narrowing down the possibilities......hopefully.

It isn't a Re-Issue 'proper' because the Historic Division (which was responsible for re-issue production) wasn't set up until 1993 but it DOES have re-issue type features such as the ink-stamped serial number, a correct Les Paul M O D E L silkscreen, an ABR-1 bridge and green 'keystone' tuners. There is no dot over the "i" in Gibson - which is quite odd - but the plastics & R/T switch are vintage-style.

My 'new' best guess - and it really is just a guess (again) is that it is an example of some Pre-Historic run. Several of these very-nearly-accurate recreations of the '59 Sunburst Standard were made during the '80s - usually crafted specifically for certain dealerships such as Leo's and Jimmy Wallace - and they were usually very fine instruments indeed. All this would fit in with your guitar.

I don't think I can suggest anything more.
I'm not sure if the truss-rod cover is the original; it certainly could be but sometimes these pre-historics had the dealership name engraved onto this item and it might have been swapped-out to make for a more authentic appearance. Have a look in the 'pocket' of the cas just in case there is anything hiding in there!

OK. I've had my fun. Now I feel you should send the images to Gibson Customer Service and see if they can tell you EXACTLY what it is you have!

It certainly is a very beautiful guitar.

Pip.

This post has been edited by pippy: 13 March 2018 - 03:51 AM

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#7 User is offline   skyf 

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:29 AM

Okay, the numbers I pulled off the pots (I don't know what these are but assume I looked at the right thing) are:
A40-71079A
R1378940

I plugged the R number into the site you said and it returned:
This potentiometer was made by
CTS Corporation (Chicago Telephone Supply)
in the 40th week of 1989

This means that (given this is an original part) this is the earliest possible date your guitar (speaker) was made.

My photos didn't really turn out well but will add them to the album soon.
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#8 User is offline   pippy 

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 08:44 AM

View Postskyf, on 13 March 2018 - 08:29 AM, said:

Okay, the numbers I pulled off the pots (I don't know what these are but assume I looked at the right thing) are:
A40-71079A......R1378940.

I plugged the R number into the site you said and it returned:
This potentiometer was made by
CTS Corporation (Chicago Telephone Supply)
in the 40th week of 1989...

Correct, skyf, and the bridge p'up vol is dated 38th week (hence my reply in line 1, paragraph 2 in my second post).
What I'd like to ask you to do now, if you can make them out, would be to input the similar code(s) of the Black Beauty into the Pot Dater site to find out when the R7 was made.

The photos are fine. Are you a snapper, by any chance? I couldn't help but notice what appears to be a photographer's translucent brolly in the rear-of-peghead photo......Posted Image......

Pip.
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#9 User is offline   skyf 

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Posted 13 March 2018 - 10:38 AM

Yes LOL. I consider myself as serious a hobbyist as you can get, but I am not a professional and I used my iPhone for the photos I took. I just tossed up the lights because you can always use more light. I figured I might as well fully document the guitars I have once instead of needing to go back and do it again. I have several I need to figure out their worth eventually. Since they belonged to my stepfather (my sister's actual father, we have different dads) they belong to her legally but she stopped talking to him years ago and I had a good relationship with him. I'd like to find a way to keep these as my daughter plays guitar and also wants to keep them but I feel my sister will want to sell them as they don't mean much to her. Long story....anyway. :) I will get the codes for the other one and post there to keep the threads straight. Then I'll move on to the others. I've tried Gibson direct before, no answer to my email and tried again this AM to a man who said he'd help too. Hopefully I'll hear back from him on this new attempt!

View Postpippy, on 13 March 2018 - 08:44 AM, said:

Correct, skyf, and the bridge p'up vol is dated 38th week (hence my reply in line 1, paragraph 2 in my second post).
What I'd like to ask you to do now, if you can make them out, would be to input the similar code(s) of the Black Beauty into the Pot Dater site to find out when the R7 was made.

The photos are fine. Are you a snapper, by any chance? I couldn't help but notice what appears to be a photographer's translucent brolly in the rear-of-peghead photo......Posted Image......

Pip.

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