E-minor7 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 The time has come. Been feeling'n'thinking 'bout this for years. For I'm the kind of guy who looks a lot on the left, not the right, hand while playing. All in all my eyes seem to sense the whole neck, the fretboard, fx split-parallelograms and bindings, , , plus of course the tuners. And I really like to have those right. My 1996 Dove came with some groverish golden rounded tuning machines a la the ones from a J-45 Std., but in my perception a real Dove has waffle back tulips. As seen these shouldn't be confused with ordinary tulips known from the Birds. They are broader and, , , , waffled backed. Usually not into the relic-thing, however this new, but aged golden set hits bulls eye for me. They simply totally matched the originals and I had to move. The plan is to make the switch with own hands. Have done this once before on the 1965 CW, but without drilling. Now my Q is : Is there anything I should know before starting, a trick, a trap, a truth etc, , , all types of advice are welcome. . ~ ~ The jewelry is on it's way over the sea and I have time to psyc up to the task. Will report later. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 All this talk of waffles has me hankering for second breakfast. The best trick for drilling if you must, is to put a small piece of masking tape on the drill bit to go the exact depth, so it’s not a drill too far. Good luck with the project, looking forward to seeing the results. It will just feel better having the right tuners on there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 My bird has wafflebacks, but with the green tulip buttons. Anyways, I have swapped tuners by hand on several guitars. I messed up one badly (my J50... ended up taking it to a luthier who righted what I had wronged), and did several others very well. A few tips. 1) take off one tuner first, and make sure the bushings you have fit appropriately in the peg hole. If it is smaller than the hole, you can explore getting bigger bushings, or building up the interior wall of the peg holes. I dont see you as the type that would be ok with electrical tape being used to narrow the hole, but some have done that. Hopefully the match is great, and everything the goes smoothly and you dont need to drill any new holes in the back. Conversion bushings: http://www.stewmac.com/Hardware_and_Parts/Tuning_Machines/Tuner_Parts/3_8_Conversion_Tuner_Bushing.html 2) if new holes need to be drilled in the back, and original holes plugged, wood dust and glue? Good luck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 All of the above, plus I just use a small pin vise to hold the drill and just twist it with my fingers to drill the hole. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Beautiful wafflebacks, Em...my only advice would be to check out the bushings on your existing tuners-if your current ones are screw-in bushings a-la Rotomatics, the push-fit bushings of the waffleback trinkets will be too small...the answer to that is conversion bushings which are have a larger OD, whether these come from the manufacturer or you’d have to have them machined to spec I’m not sure. Either way it’s doable! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I don’t like waffle backs Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 Maybe try a little more syrup. Also- if you've just gotten the strings aged to where you like them, don't forget that the "capo trick" also works at the bridge end when doing work requiring slackening of the strings; always a good thing to keep one's ball ends tight against the 'plate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted March 15, 2018 Share Posted March 15, 2018 I like the look of those tuners. The relicing is very tastefully done. Best of luck with the changeover. Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 Thanx for the replies guys. I did take a machine-head out to study it and comparing to the measurements on the waffle-back-site, the pigeon-holes will need a little sanding. Better than the other way around and I have done that before. Sandpaper around the right sized pen will do fine. The tape-trick is a must and will be carried out with the highest degree of awareness. What worries me the most is the power of the drill-machine meeting the fragile Gibson wood. My fantasy keeps projecting images of a cherry red headstock exploding to kindling sticks with one piece penetrating my eyeball and me tilting back over a glass-table with a precious vase full of daffodils, , , and the monster still spinning. . Apart from that, 12 small points will be pre-marked before take-off. But where shall the drilling take place. On the sofa with a soft, but firm flat pillow under the head ? The count-down has begun - this is building op. . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Odds are you'll need conversion bushings - the waffle posts appear larger than they actually are. I always use an old-style hand drill (no power drills) for new holes. Doubt you'll have a problem☺ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 My bird has wafflebacks, but with the green tulip buttons. Interesting thing is that waffle backs usually come without the 6 washers and the hexagram nuts seen on the pic. There's just the basic bushings from which the poles stick up. Which brand is yours ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 16, 2018 Author Share Posted March 16, 2018 I don't like waffle backs There IS something pre-1989 DDR about the waffled cabinet, which took me time to accept. But the tulip itself has a wider blossom that works fine with the bigger Dove head. All in all there's a lot of character gained with the WB's. It will be like goin' from average to special - perhaps even from sitting to flying winged creature. And something tells me they are lighter than the nameless originals. ~ ~ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted March 16, 2018 Share Posted March 16, 2018 Just being flippant em7 I would definitely remove those tuners that are on there. Don’t really like that style on any guitar so much But I’m an open backed guy Waverlys will totally go on the j45 one of these days Good luck with your carpentry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 The golden Kluson tulips have landed, , , in more ways than one. They are on the head. Came in Monday, but I soon found out that my drilling machine was too brutal and it took 48 hours to borrow the right tool. Far from what would be considered an ideal and immaculate job, the procedure went fine. A drilling error forced the A-string-box too close to the center. Luckily the scar-hole isn't visible. Besides the drill was too thin and I had to plur the holes wider like when machine-mixing mashed potatoes. Those waffle screws are big and actually dive deep. However no major mistakes were made and as the guitar is a bit ragged already, no harm was done. The aged tuners looked alright from the seller, yet not as cool as the intro-post-pics. It was as if they had been creamed with something and I did a little extra sand-aging myself. No regrets at all - this step was a relief and it had to be taken. Am about to go in and re-string. From now on - with a new home-made bone saddle to come - the tremendously well opened Dove will be up under the sun. ~ ~ P.S. - Yes, there are vague marks where the wider original washers used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 The golden Kluson tulips have landed, , , in more ways than one. They are on the head. Came in Monday, but I soon found out that my drilling machine was too brutal and it took 48 hours to borrow the right tool. Far from what would be considered an ideal and immaculate job, the procedure went fine. A drilling error forced the A-string-box too close to the center. Luckily the scar-hole isn't visible. Besides the drill was too thin and I had to plur the holes wider like when machine-mixing mashed potatoes. Those waffle screws are big and actually dive deep. However no major mistakes were made and as the guitar is a bit ragged already, no harm was done. The aged tuners looked alright from the seller, yet not as cool as the intro-post-pics. It was as if they had been creamed with something and I did a little extra sand-aging myself. No regrets at all - this step was a relief and it had to be taken. Am about to go in and re-string. From now on - with a new home-made bone saddle to come - the tremendously well opened Dove will be up under the sun. ~ ~ P.S. - Yes, there are vague marks where the wider original washers used to be. Em7, It looks pretty damaged in these after photos. Are you going to live with it as is or will you be off to the luthier? Any how enjoy the Dove JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 Em7, It looks pretty damaged in these after photos. Are you going to live with it as is or will you be off to the luthier? Any how enjoy the Dove JC Where do you see damage ? , , , the neck was sanded years ago, then the heavy lacquer coating cracked by itself after a period with capo on the 7th. I saw this as a chance to sand further down to ideal thickness. Which to me means just a tooth thicker than the HB. The sweet thing plays like jersey-cow butter, , , and by the way has a sandpaper shim to crisp up the almost too smooth voice. Interesting thing right now is whether the new gold has altered the overall sound. Just strung up with unchanged strings and it seems a bit like it. Will find out in broad daylite tomorrow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Where do you see damage ? , , , the neck was sanded years ago, then the heavy lacquer coating cracked by itself after a period with capo on the 7th. I saw this as a chance to sand further down to ideal thickness. Which to me means just a tooth thicker than the HB. The sweet thing plays like jersey-cow butter, , , and by the way has a sandpaper shim to crisp up the almost too smooth voice. Interesting thing right now is whether the new gold has altered the overall sound. Just strung up with unchanged strings and it seems a bit like it. Will find out in broad daylite tomorrow. My bad.I thought it was a NOS model. I got worried about the lacquer on the neck. But now realize it was already there from your story. I suggested taking the guitar to a luthier only because I thought you bought it dead mint.Guitars with battle scars are great too please forgive the mixup. Ramble on with the Dove! JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 22, 2018 Author Share Posted March 22, 2018 My bad.I thought it was a NOS model. I got worried about the lacquer on the neck. But now realize it was already there from your story. I suggested taking the guitar to a luthier only because I thought you bought it dead mint.Guitars with battle scars are great too please forgive the mixup. Ramble on with the Dove! JC All OK, JC - admit the 2 pics looks slightly raw, but believe it's the close-up flash in a fairly dark room past midnite here in the temple. Will shoot a straighter full body photo asap. Hi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aliasphobias Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 I like the look Mr. minor7. Glad you recovered from the wandering drill bit. I would like to know more about the sandpaper shim, I think. Placement? Grit? Temporary just to toughen it up? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Job well done Mr Looks mucho better Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Lookin' really fine! My '68-er has waffle tulips, but not gold. Gotta love a Dove😍 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted March 22, 2018 Share Posted March 22, 2018 Loving the waffles, Em7! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 3 photos more just to assure JCV and others the guitar ain't damaged. The switch has brought me closer to the flier. This is now a real Dove, , , I can feel it. . ~ ~ ~ I like the look Mr. minor7. Glad you recovered from the wandering drill bit. I would like to know more about the sandpaper shim, I think. Placement? Grit? Temporary just to toughen it up? Thanx - It's just a medium grit line under the saddle - grain up. The classy maple syrup can be a little too smooth and my answer is to trash down the action and feature the crisppaper. It's still an experiment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lars68 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Beautiful, and also very cool, kind of in a Hot Rod style. Lars Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.