'64 Hummingbird

[Jalex]

Interesting, I just assumed my bird was short scale I guess I'll have to measure it now.

[E-minor7]

By "Fabulous Flat Tops", the first birds (1960-'62) were short-scale, except for maple versions that were actually modified Doves with long-scale necks. By sometime in 1963, all the squares were long-scale, including the 'bird.

 

Would you like that suede boot medium, rare, or served over pasta with red sauce?

Still don't believe it.

 

 

 

[E-minor7]

Still don't believe it.

My 1963 SJ - Short

My 1965 CW - Short

My 1966 CW - Re-necked from short to long

And if I'm not lost in bushes, my other 1964 CW, which might come out of the case tomorrow, is also short.

 

However the 1968 SJ is long, , , , just like EA's now long gone CW from '69.

By "Fabulous Flat Tops", the first birds (1960-'62) were short-scale, except for maple versions that were actually modified Doves with long-scale necks. By sometime in 1963, all the squares were long-scale, including the 'bird.

 

Would you like that suede boot medium, rare, or served over pasta with red sauce?

Think there might be a chance you have to eat your shoelaces next time you choose spaghetti - for bein' too loyal to the FFT-bible.

Wellll, we'll see. .

[j45nick]

Still don't believe it.

 

 

Fair enough. We need to track down some vintage 'birds. I believe Tom Barnwell may have either a '63 or '64.

[aliasphobias]

I agree with Nick. Most I have seen (vintage) are long scale. I have a trained eye to look at the distance between the southernmost trumpet flower and bridge to see the scale. Go to the Reverb and look at nothing but 'birds you can see the proof; '70s(?) too easy...25.5, '60s(?)trust your eye. The break off I have seen is

'63 with a few exceptions.

Furthermore, to confound a bit more, further back in FF'top it says the Bozeman re-issues were better than the originals in that they are long scale (not quoted verbatim

but similar wording). I have had a few Bozeman 'birds and they were long scale until '97.

[E-minor7]

Fair enough. We need to track down some vintage 'birds. I believe Tom Barnwell may have either a '63 or '64.

His is a 62'er so due to the book it will be short anyway.

Could be interesting to hear SirNed about his new old Bird. I believe we have a few pre-1965 CW owners here as well.

[E-minor7]

There seems to be some doubt at the Les Paul Forum too. Especially 4 comments chimes in. Post 12 - 25 - 27 - 28.

 

https://www.lespaulf...-Southern-Jumbo

[Jalex]

Just measured my 63 Bird and it is indeed 25 1/2. Learn something new everyday.

[j45nick]

Just measured my 63 Bird and it is indeed 25 1/2. Learn something new everyday.

 

Well, that's one data point.

 

I suspect this will be a classic case of there being a lot of variation over a couple of years. We know Gibson never threw anything away, so it may be a function of how quickly long-scale necks became available, and how many 'bird-specific short-scale necks were still being used up.

 

I can hear something like "after we use up all these short-scale necks, all the square shoulder guitars are going to be long-scale. But we're not going to waste what we already have."

[OldCowboy]

Well, that's one data point.

 

I suspect this will be a classic case of there being a lot of variation over a couple of years. We know Gibson never threw anything away, so it may be a function of how quickly long-scale necks became available, and how many 'bird-specific shorts-scale necks were still being used up.

 

I can hear something like "after we use up all these short-scale necks, all the square shoulder guitars are going to be long-scale. But we're not going to waste what we already have."

Sounds right. My '65 'bird is long scale.

[E-minor7]

Well, that's one data point.

 

I suspect this will be a classic case of there being a lot of variation over a couple of years. We know Gibson never threw anything away, so it may be a function of how quickly long-scale necks became available, and how many 'bird-specific shorts-scale necks were still being used up.

 

I can hear something like "after we use up all these short-scale necks, all the square shoulder guitars are going to be long-scale. But we're not going to waste what we already have."

Nick, you seem to overlook the 4 guitars in my herd.

But Jalex and OC come up with good evidence that a number of the H-bird grew long where the 2 others stayed down -

like Top Gun mentions under post #12 in the Les Paul Forum thread.

There are no vintage Birds in my herd, but have seen a lot - still of course willing to learn.

But I think we need more 1 hand Bird-owners in the debate, , , and CW/SJ owners as well for that matter.

Another factor to with-count is that many sellers may look up the FF-book and get their information there, , , without actually measuring themselves.

[SirNed]

Could be interesting to hear SirNed about his new old Bird. I believe we have a few pre-1965 CW owners here as well.

 

I've always found scale-length confusing. Measure from the edge of the nut to the middle of the 12th fret? or somewhere on the bridge? What if the bridge placement was changed? I don't know...you guys be the judge. 1964 Hummingbird:

 

[j45nick]

I've always found scale-length confusing. Measure from the edge of the nut to the middle of the 12th fret? or somewhere on the bridge? What if the bridge placement was changed? I don't know...you guys be the judge. 1964 Hummingbird:

 

 

 

Basically the bearing point at the nut to the 12th fret, doubled, is the easiest way to approximate scale length. That's a long-scale 'bird you have there.

[aliasphobias]

I've always found scale-length confusing. Measure from the edge of the nut to the middle of the 12th fret? or somewhere on the bridge? What if the bridge placement was changed? I don't know...you guys be the judge. 1964 Hummingbird:

 

 

 

As much as I like the faded cherries, I do the guitar swoon when I see this one. A beauty to my eye SirNed!

[SirNed]

As much as I like the faded cherries, I do the guitar swoon when I see this one. A beauty to my eye SirNed!

 

Thanks! (There are some better pics from my NGD post) I never get sick of looking at it,and my other guitars are getting jealous.☺

[E-minor7]

Thanks! (There are some better pics from my NGD post) I never get sick of looking at it,and my other guitars are getting jealous.☺

Not hard to understand. I personally burn and yearn to play that guitar.

Regarding scales "we have all been here before" (to quote another great Crosby tune).

 

Funny for me to see my comments were made before my short scale Hummingbirds* were born.

Do notice the total confusion on the topic.

 

http://forum.gibson....is-a-longscale/

 

*and as said they share length with the vintage squares in this collection.

[JuanCarlosVejar]

Now if only we could get some country and westerns measured.

We could start to build an aproximate timeline.

 

 

 

JC