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ES125-Help me identify year


bbbacres

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post-48089-059367200 1524001305_thumb.jpgI purchased a nifty little ES125 that has been modified a bit. Refinished in black. Better tuning keys installed. Better Bridge and tailpiece post-48089-037836800 1524001295_thumb.jpginstalled. Basically it is now a nifty little ES125 that is easy to tune and stays in tune. But I am having trouble identifying the year of the guitar, can anyone help?

 

There is no sticker inside the guitar. If there was an inkstamp it is long faded away. I decided that I would just use the POT dates and call it good. However, we took out the two pots and they do not have numbers of any kind on them. This may be a clue in and of itself. There is every reason to believe the pots and pickups are original. The seller told me that when he got it the first seller called it an early '50s. I'm attaching a photo of the pickups and knobs.

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Well, most models (not all) went from 19 frets to 20 in 1955, so that would help. That is to say, some models already had 20 frets before 1955 but the 125 wasn't one.

 

I suspect the tailpiece and knobs are aftermarket or at the very least not original. The bridge is imported.

 

I would advise you in the friendliest way imaginable to experiment with different bridges.

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Thank you so much, and what a good tip. Who would know that :) ??? I guess someone who really knows their Gibsons. Mine has 19 frets, assuming you just count frets and not the nut. I'm attaching a pic. Any other clues I might use to get an even more specific date? The guy I bought it from claimed it was a '52 based on the man who sold it to him, though that man had also bought it used and long after the '50s. Thanks!!

 

 

 

 

Well, most models (not all) went from 19 frets to 20 in 1955, so that would help. That is to say, some models already had 20 frets before 1955 but the 125 wasn't one.

 

I suspect the tailpiece and knobs are aftermarket or at the very least not original. The bridge is imported.

 

I would advise you in the friendliest way imaginable to experiment with different bridges.

post-48089-081546700 1524170225_thumb.jpg

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......The bridge is imported.

 

I would advise you in the friendliest way imaginable to experiment with different bridges.

 

Yes. The bridge looks European - it's fine but there are better ones out there.

 

 

Very nice guitar too, a beauty. I'd like that!!!

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There are a couple features that apply to many Gibson guitars that MAY also apply to the ES series (standard disclaimer).

 

Look at the headstock from the side. Is the headstock a uniform thickness or is it thin at the "Gibson" end and thicker near the E string tuners? (It will be fairly obvious when you look). Gibson went from a tapered headstock to a uniform thickness in 1952. Almost positive 1952.

 

Look inside the body. You may see black strips of cloth glued around the rim every few inches or so. I guess they were glued in there to stop a crack from spreading....maybe. This is also something they stopped doing in 1952. Now the ES series may not have that, due to them typically having laminated construction.

 

I really would like a look at those pots though.... did you look along the rim of the covers too? If you see a chance, pull them and look closely. Pics too!

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Regarding the pots. I tried to take them out myself, but the wiring was too tight. I could just pull them into sight of the F hole. But I looked at the bottom and the one side that was exposed. No numbers. Then I had my local music store guy just pull the whole pot setup. I was not there, but told him clearly about wanting a pot number. He looked carefully, under and all around, and tried hard to find a number. There simply was none. Though I would have expected to see a number, this is certainly possible and I believe the guitar guy. I hoped there might be a way to date the pickup since the pots are of no help.

 

The headstock thickness and the black strips of cloth sound like good clues. But how does one see the area where there should be black strips of cloth? Do you mean around the top rim? If so you could not get an angle of view to let you see it, maybe you mean the bottom. If you do, I see no strips. Just a piece of wood joining the side and bottom and the wood has sort of slits in it, but I don't know if this is what you mean by strips.

 

I so appreciate your advice. More would be appreciated. As for the bridge, it is an interesting question. Both the bridge and tailpiece are not original. But the tailpiece will clearly be more stable than that original trapeze tailpiece of thin wire. As for the bridge, my guess is that this bridge is from a Japanese guitasr. But it works well and I had the harmonics adjusted, and they adjusted quite well!!! It is working. There is always a debate, but I think of it this way. The guitar is refinished, that already means a major factor of "originality" is gone. Adding a non original tailpiece and bridge are much less offensive on a reduced value guitar that was lower end to begin with. I always wanted an ES 125. And the lack of perfection on this probably made me getting it possible. I could go through changing tailpiece and bridge but it would not change the value, and these pieces are working well.. I would still love to do the detective work to track down the year of the guitar though.

 

The thickness of the headstock should be easy to see. But I've attached a photo, what do you see? Thank you much for discussing the guitar with me and helping me ID. BB

 

Bruce.

There are a couple features that apply to many Gibson guitars that MAY also apply to the ES series (standard disclaimer).

 

Look at the headstock from the side. Is the headstock a uniform thickness or is it thin at the "Gibson" end and thicker near the E string tuners? (It will be fairly obvious when you look). Gibson went from a tapered headstock to a uniform thickness in 1952. Almost positive 1952.

 

Look inside the body. You may see black strips of cloth glued around the rim every few inches or so. I guess they were glued in there to stop a crack from spreading....maybe. This is also something they stopped doing in 1952. Now the ES series may not have that, due to them typically having laminated construction.

 

I really would like a look at those pots though.... did you look along the rim of the covers too? If you see a chance, pull them and look closely. Pics too!

 

 

post-48089-070968800 1524321125_thumb.jpg

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My guess is that it was made between 1952 and 1955. One final thing to look for, and it's a stretch, is the presence of a factory order number inked onto the neck block. Some models had them, some did not. It would be worth a look. The numbering system they had during this era (1952-60) is very straightforward: Z=1952, Y=1953, X=1954, W=1955. The major stumbling block would be whether it is present and visible.

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OK, made a final check. There are NO strips running vertically inside the guitar sides. There is no number of any kind where the neck meets the body inside. There are 19 frets and the headstock is uniform in thickness its entire length. So your guess of '52 to '55 sounds correct. That is a nice and very aged guitar and I can use these facts to verify to myself.

 

Any other thoughts? And thank you for your help.

 

 

 

 

 

 

My guess is that it was made between 1952 and 1955. One final thing to look for, and it's a stretch, is the presence of a factory order number inked onto the neck block. Some models had them, some did not. It would be worth a look. The numbering system they had during this era (1952-60) is very straightforward: Z=1952, Y=1953, X=1954, W=1955. The major stumbling block would be whether it is present and visible.

 

 

 

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