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Pickup Madness with David Wilcox


BluesKing777

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Pretty interesting approach to pickups and an acoustic, makes a lot of sense - needing the 'symphpony of pickups' to get the real acoustic sound. To me though - seems like a lot of guitar modification to get there. If I ever venture beyond mic'ing my guitar - I feel I would trend towards the tonedexter first.

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Pretty interesting approach to pickups and an acoustic, makes a lot of sense - needing the 'symphpony of pickups' to get the real acoustic sound. To me though - seems like a lot of guitar modification to get there. If I ever venture beyond mic'ing my guitar - I feel I would trend towards the tonedexter first.

 

 

Way easier than Tonedexter is to buy a NEW Maton with the new Ap5-Pro pickup system!

 

They also come in all sizes...woods... (beware of older laminated back OR sides models - price is usually an indicator.)

 

 

BluesKing777.

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If any of you are ever in the Lawrence, KS area you need to stop by Mass St. Music and check out their demo guitar which is loaded with a bunch of different pickups.

 

I just stick with my old Dearmond 210s. Not the most acoustic sounding pickup ever conceived but they do make life very simple. My favorite pickup, however, remains the Dimarzio DP 139. Problem is they have been out of production for a number of years and these days are hard to find. After that I like the Sunrise, the downside of which is they are pretty pricey.

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Overkill to have the choir in there, but that RMC piezo sounds SO good, doesn’t it? I’m tempted to put one of those in my J180. Having done the homework they look a bit of a ballache to install but the balance and even response really appeal.

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This kind of knowledge and especially "understanding" is way above my pay grade. I just plug into my Roland EX or Yamaha system. As far as acoustic tone is concerned, wasn't Wilcox playing a Rainsong? At the most, the top is wood and the rest is carbon fibre. Might be an all fiberglass model. I just think it's real easy to get way-too-technical when all you're doing is playing an acoustic guitar. A few months ago I was having problems with the LR Baggs Anthem in my J100. A knocking sound like I had a bad cable, but I didn't, so I removed it and put a K & K Pure Mini in it and it's excellent. Has a strong signal and no need for a battery. Sounds good to my ears and low maintenence. And as someone suggested, does the audience know or care?

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This kind of knowledge and especially "understanding" is way above my pay grade. I just plug into my Roland EX or Yamaha system. As far as acoustic tone is concerned, wasn't Wilcox playing a Rainsong? At the most, the top is wood and the rest is carbon fibre. Might be an all fiberglass model. I just think it's real easy to get way-too-technical when all you're doing is playing an acoustic guitar. A few months ago I was having problems with the LR Baggs Anthem in my J100. A knocking sound like I had a bad cable, but I didn't, so I removed it and put a K & K Pure Mini in it and it's excellent. Has a strong signal and no need for a battery. Sounds good to my ears and low maintenence. And as someone suggested, does the audience know or care?

 

I’m a big fan of K&K stuff, I just wish that it wasn’t quite so installation specific. It sounds great in my ‘67 J45 and was wonderful in my old Martin D18 (the best plugged in tone I’ve ever had) but I’ve had mixed results in other guitars and it was flat out horrible in my old AJ. It’s a real roll of the dice to find the sweet spot on the bridge plate, but when/if you do, it’s an absolute home run.

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Things I have read, discovered:

 

 

Another thing to keep in mind with K&K Mini pickups is impedance matching......(yawn, everyone goes.)....

 

 

They are designed to work best with lower input impedance equipment - amps, preamps, mixers, so the target amount is 1 MegaOhm. The Tonedexter imput is 1 MegaOhm, so a match made in heaven. My old Genz Benz stereo 60 amp has input of 330 K.....a third of the recommended dose and my K&Ks sound great in that amp. No comprendi...

 

Now the Fishman passive undersaddle, well the ones I have, sound awful in my amp - that is because they work best with 10 MegaOhms!!! Which just happens to be the input of the Fishman Spectrum Aura DI box.....

 

Now I ran my K&K to my Aura and it is a lot more work to get a sound than the Fishman undersaddle! So a decent undersaddle to a good Aura image is really nice, K&K...hmmm....awful.

 

K&K to my Tonedexter...Fab! Undersaddle OK too. No comprendi.

 

 

So it pays to check the specs! The try it. [mellow]

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

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Things I have read, discovered:

 

 

Another thing to keep in mind with K&K Mini pickups is impedance matching......(yawn, everyone goes.)....

 

 

They are designed to work best with lower input impedance equipment - amps, preamps, mixers, so the target amount is 1 MegaOhm. The Tonedexter imput is 1 MegaOhm, so a match made in heaven. My old Genz Benz stereo 60 amp has input of 330 K.....a third of the recommended dose and my K&Ks sound great in that amp. No comprendi...

 

Now the Fishman passive undersaddle, well the ones I have, sound awful in my amp - that is because they work best with 10 MegaOhms!!! Which just happens to be the input of the Fishman Spectrum Aura DI box.....

 

Now I ran my K&K to my Aura and it is a lot more work to get a sound than the Fishman undersaddle! So a decent undersaddle to a good Aura image is really nice, K&K...hmmm....awful.

 

K&K to my Tonedexter...Fab! Undersaddle OK too. No comprendi.

 

 

So it pays to check the specs! The try it. [mellow]

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

BK, how do you find the passive Fishman undersaddle? I’ve often thought of using one of those or a K&K FanTaStick and preamping it outboard. I figure that outboard preamps have better circuitry and tone than the little endpin jobbies.

 

Having said that, I like the Matrix Infinity units I have in most of my guitars just fine.

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BK, how do you find the passive Fishman undersaddle? I’ve often thought of using one of those or a K&K FanTaStick and preamping it outboard. I figure that outboard preamps have better circuitry and tone than the little endpin jobbies.

 

Having said that, I like the Matrix Infinity units I have in most of my guitars just fine.

 

 

I like the passive stuff like the Fishman and the K&K because I don’t like battery bags - they need a good preamp with sound images, to me anyway, as I can’t stand either piezo direct - so Fishman to Aura or Tonedexter and K&K to Tonedexter.....

 

 

BluesKing777.

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I’m not sure whether a passive UST would fire enough signal at the front end of my Aura 16 to get it working at its best-even with active pickups it seems to need the gain wicking up 2/3rds of the way at least...maybe the Spectrum DI is a bit better with low gain signal.

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I’m not sure whether a passive UST would fire enough signal at the front end of my Aura 16 to get it working at its best-even with active pickups it seems to need the gain wicking up 2/3rds of the way at least...maybe the Spectrum DI is a bit better with low gain signal.

 

 

Check you trim control on the right hand side - wind it up.

 

 

Passive equals = no level! But Aura or Tonedexter will give heaps. Though the Martin Thinlines have more level, even though they are/were made by Fishman.

 

And the A&H mixer has 2 high z inputs for low level pickups....

 

 

I was also running my Neo-D passive humbucker soundhole pickup to Tonedexter - that pickup has nothing until plugged into a decent preamp. The other weird thing I found is thst soundholes are all different in relation to the guitars - I have just tried the Neo-D in my new Waterloo and if I play up to the 15th fret, the strings clunk out touching the pickup! Other guitars, the strings are too far away.....

 

 

BluesKing777.

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Check you trim control on the right hand side - wind it up.

 

 

Passive equals = no level! But Aura or Tonedexter will give heaps. Though the Martin Thinlines have more level, even though they are/were made by Fishman.

 

And the A&H mixer has 2 high z inputs for low level pickups....

 

 

I was also running my Neo-D passive humbucker soundhole pickup to Tonedexter - that pickup has nothing until plugged into a decent preamp. The other weird thing I found is thst soundholes are all different in relation to the guitars - I have just tried the Neo-D in my new Waterloo and if I play up to the 15th fret, the strings clunk out touching the pickup! Other guitars, the strings are too far away.....

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

That’s part of the reason why I don’t get on so well with soundhole pups...I really like the sound of the Baggs M1A but neck angle and string height are so variable from guitar to guitar that it’s hard to make a pickup like that work in a consistent way for me. I really love the sound of them for lead work though, my little Epi EL-00 has an early Rare Earth in it which takes a little overdrive really well, it sounds almost like a Strat at times which makes it really useful for duo work!

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You guys lost me at “impedance matching.”.....Seriously, don’t what what it is. I chose the K & K because i read a thread where Sal was speaking highly of it and I know he’s plays a lot of acoustic guitar in busy and noisy venues. Installing it was a bit problematic as I tried to get the probes to stick to the guitar and not my fingers. Don’t know how close I got to the sweep spots with the probes, but it sounds good to me and for coffeehouses and libraries it’s got plenty of sound. No doubt for a large venue and/or with a band you’d want a DI box to cut-through the clutter.

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I watched "Eight Days A Week' (Beatles) the other night, and in one part, Ringo was talking about how at first he would turn up at Abbey Road, set up the drums, everyone else get ready, run through the song a couple of times and then "call the boffins" when ready to record, as they (The Beatles) were not allowed to press the big red button. [mellow]

 

So if I run my K&K to the Aura with 10 MegOhm input impedance, first result is wayyyyyyyy way too much bass and boom...same pickup to Tonedexter with only 1 MegOhm impedance and a nice balanced sound from same pickup....

 

 

You will know if the K&K is not installed properly as the strings won't all have the same volume..... (the high E on one of my guitars is weak but I left it as I rather that than it booming out louder than others....and calling the boffins. [flapper]

 

 

 

EDIT: This may help, may not.... [crying]

 

Impedance Matching pdf:

 

 

http://www.award-session.com/pdfs/Impedance%20Matching.pdf

 

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

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