Help Me Identifying This Guitar

[Atprodigy]

Hi guys!

 

My name is Andreas from Geneve, Switzerland. Just joined this forum. Greetings to all of you! 🍻

 

 

I have a little problem, i hope you guys can help me.

 

I just saw a beautiful Les Paul with Red Sparkle finish. The tick card says it's a Les Paul Custom Historic, but unfortunately it doesnt say anything about the production year. The serial number is 7 9030.

 

 

What im eager to know is, is that a '99 production Les Paul or a 2009?

 

I spent days googling here and there trying to find something like this particular guitar, and i couldn't find anything. I would like to know whether the color of the guitar can be considered "original" form that year of production or not? (1999 or 2009)?

 

When i opened the wiring cavity, i coundt find a "R7" stamped on it's body. So it must be a non R7 les paul although the serial number starts with a "7".

 

From what i read, there are two types of Historic gibsons, for a 1967 reissue for example, one that is considered the R7 (gold top and black beauty) and the other is the Historic 1957. Is that true?

 

 

Hope you guys can help me. Thank you so much.. Gibson Rocks!!

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[pippy]

Hi Andreas and welcome to the forum.

 

It is a bit of a mystery. Are you SURE the check-list document is genuine? I ask because there are a great many non-Historic features on that instrument.

 

The round-point trapezoid inlays are wrong for a post 2002 Historic (although the '93-'01 instruments could have such inlays); the Nashville bridge and that particular version of the 'Les Paul MODEL' silkscreen are wrong for any LP Historic at all ever since the Historic Division /Custom Shop was set up in 1993.

The serial number is in the wrong typeface for a re-issue but it IS correct for a '1960 Classic'. The Nash' bridge and that type of silkscreen have been used on the 1960 Classic and there were some of these instruments made by the Custom Shop unit in 1997 (which year would tie-in with the Classic's serial number system) but I've never heard of one in red sparkle finish - the ones I've seen have all had highly flamed (Premium Plus) tops.

 

That being said Gibson have released a huge number of small-production-run LPs over the years so could this be one such guitar?

 

Best advice would be to contact Gibson Customer Services direct with the pictures and serial number.

If you have any luck please do keep us informed!

 

Pip.

[Atprodigy]

Hi, thanks for your reply. I have contacted them via email, but zero answer :(

 

Yes, indeed. I have never seen such a guitar like this.

[Atprodigy]

These are pictures of the checklist card:

 

 

[Atprodigy]

This is the Historic logo on it's original hardcase:

 

 

[slimt]

Ive seen of those sparkles..

[pippy]

Red Sparkle finish Les Pauls have been around for at least four decades.

What I've never seen is an Historic Reissue with a Nashville bridge or the USA-line "Les Paul MODEL" silkscreen.

 

The guitar isn't the issue; the check-list which appears to state that it's an 'Historic' is the issue.

If all it means is that the guitar was made in and by the Custom Shop / Art / Historic Division then all's well. And I think that must be the case here.

 

I still think dropping a line to Gibson Customer Support would be rewarding.

 

Pip.

[Atprodigy]

Just recieved an email from Gibson Customer Service:

 

 

[Atprodigy]

I just bought the guitar for 1500 USD. I guess im pretty lucky

[pippy]

Thanks for the update Andreas.

So it was a custom-order instrument based along the lines of an R7 but with a few slightly different features? Pretty unique instrument and a steal at the price.

 

Congrats!

 

Pip.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

This is cool.

 

What's extremely weird is that someone would spec an R7 with a USA silk screen and inlays. I can see someone choosing the Nashville bridge I suppose but wouldn't you just take the historic silkscreen and inlays. Just seems these are odd details to change. It must be what Gibson say it is.

 

Looks to have tall pickup rings on it.

 

Any chance of a picture of the control cavity? It's a really unusual thing you have there.

[pippy]

This is cool......I can see someone choosing the Nashville bridge I suppose but wouldn't you just take the historic silkscreen and inlays?...

The round-point traps were used as standard (pun) from the first Historics proper (in '93) and IIRC lasted until 2001, Farns. My R9 has them.

The weird thing is the USA-line '1960 Classics' (introduced in 1989) came with sharp-point traps......

 

My guess is that the 'donor guitar' used here was a regular Standard which was kitted out by the Custom Shop with certain special-order options along the general lines of an R7 - hence the lack of an R7 cavity stamp, the non-historic silkscreen and Nash. bridge.

 

Pip.

[Atprodigy]

Yes, no R7 cavity stamp

[Atprodigy]

I may be totally wrong here but my understanding is that only the Goldtop '57 is an R7 just as the Wrap bridge goldtop is an R4. The Customs are not R4s or R7s but rather a Historic 1954 (or 57) Black Beauty Custom reissue with the cavity stamp numbers being reserved for the Goldtops and 'Bursts.

[Guest Farnsbarns]

It would be interesting to see the cavity route, and the caps which would definitely be fitted after arrival in the CS, just out of curiosity. I wonder if it's the historic route. All very interesting.

[Atprodigy]

Here's a picture of what's inside the cavity:

 

 

[pippy]

I may be totally wrong here but my understanding is that only the Goldtop '57 is an R7 just as the Wrap bridge goldtop is an R4. The Customs are not R4s or R7s but rather a Historic 1954 (or 57) Black Beauty Custom reissue with the cavity stamp numbers being reserved for the Goldtops and 'Bursts.

Yes, generally speaking you are correct Andreas, but if we are to nit pick it has to be said that the Custom Shop has also released versions of both the McCarty bridge P-90 Standard and the stop-tail ABR-1 P-90 Standard in Sunburst variants in very limited numbers.

 

As far as your guitar is concerned; the Historic Re-issues (AFAIK) had the 'Historic Collection' waterslide behind the headstock in '93 and '94. My '95 R0 has no waterslide and I think that the use of such a device had been abandoned by this time. The waterslide on your guitar is from the newly renamed 'Custom Shop' which dealt with special order items. The 'proper' (if you will) historic reissues, in the interests of historical accuracy, had no waterslide after late '94 which suggests that your guitar, dating from 1997 and having a 'Custom Shop' waterslide, was made by the Custom Shop, is very possibly a one-off instrument.

 

FWIW here is a snap of the waterslide on the rear of my R9, used in '93 and '94 for the official Historic Division re-issues;

 

 

Pip.

[LWAG]

My 1996 Gibson Custom Shop Looks a lot like it, same colour, same logos, same bridge.

It was Gibson who told me I had an 1996 Gibson Custom Shop Les Paul Standard Red Sparkle Top.

Mine's 6 9794

So I deduced based on the likeness in looks of the two, that yours is an 1997, but mine has a thinner 60's neck profile, and is light/has a chambered body.

Love that guitar.

The paper work's the same (but then I'm half sure it's the same on my 2005 R7). I have a brown case with pink lining that says Gibson USA for this 1996 Gibson Custom Shop guitar though.

 

I took a bunch of pictures but I can't upload them.

 

This was it stock;

(don't worry, it's not broken, I'm purposely kill switching it).

[LWAG]

The head stock appears to match my 1996 Gibson Custom Shop Red Sparkle Top because there's hardily any gap between the nut and the truss rod cover.

My R7/1957 VOS has a little bit of a gap between the nut and the truss rod cover.