bobouz Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Like all J-15s, mine came stock with Mini-Grovers. They are one of my least favorite tuning machines. Has anyone swapped them out with something better that drops in & matches the offset screw holes? Any info would be much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 There is no other with that offset ear that's in a different style. Any other Grover will fit the post bore perfectly but the only one that is anything different than what you have are the 135 keystones.......without the offset ear You can certainly use another maker's machine head with reducer bushings but that little screw hole is going be lonely and exposed, which would not be a big deal to me. Check on StewMac's website for what's available and what bushing you'll need to make a swap........they have drawings with all the dimensions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 If you replace them with the 3-on-a-strip Klusons, all the old holes will be covered completely. See this: http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/142256-waverlys-on-a-j-35/page__view__findpost__p__1929024 The reducing bushing required a lot of force to insert. StewMac makes a special (expensive) tool for this but I just used a c-clamp with a block of wood to protect the headstock. Wasn't hard, but I have a lot of woodworking experience and tools. A bigger problem with replacing Grovers with the "vintage" style tuners is the big washers on the front of the headstock. When removed, you will probably see a very noticeable "bullseye" from where they were. This was very ugly on my 2008 J-50 and required sanding/polishing. Worked out fine for me, but could be a scary thing for many people. The 3-on-a-strip Klusons may also partially cover the serial number on the headstock. But they are really great tuners. BTW, if it's just the big tuner buttons that you don't like, you can get plastic replacements for those at StewMac that are a lot more attractive. Tried that for awhile on my J-50, but the big washers on the front of the headstock were just too ugly. And I think the only way to get rid of those will be going with "vintage style" tuners and bushings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 I don't care for them on my J-15 as much as the fat gold ones on my J-45. I like chunky women too.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 While I do not have an answer for you, J-45s just look so wrong with Grover Rotomatics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dhanners623 Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 While I do not have an answer for you, J-45s just look so wrong with Grover Rotomatics. That's a big 10-4. There's wrong, and there's Grovers-on-a-J45 wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 I replaced Grover minis on an LG2 with Kluson three on a plate creme button tuners. The holes from the Grover minis ARE visible FYI... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Sorry, I have never even seen an LG2. But no holes are visible on my J-50, and I thought it had the same kind of Rotomatics as the J-15. I could be wrong though.... Here's what they look like on my 2008 J-50. And this is the same guitar that I originally switched to Golden Age open back tuners. The Klusons also hide all the holes from those. But note how they overlap the serial number. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted May 26, 2018 Author Share Posted May 26, 2018 Thanks all for your tips & info. Boyd, I'm thinking you actually replaced a set of regular Grover Rotomatics, rather than the Mini-Grovers whose mounting screws jut out towards the center of the peghead. Just to be sure, I'll check it out by lining up a set of original 3-on-a-plate tuners I have from the '60s. Again, the responses are much appreciated! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted May 26, 2018 Share Posted May 26, 2018 Yeah, in that case I think you are right - sorry. These were my original tuners. And they really had to go! :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted May 27, 2018 Share Posted May 27, 2018 I don't have any mini Grovers to compare size but here's mini Schaller's with replaceable buttons Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted May 28, 2018 Author Share Posted May 28, 2018 Update: As opposed to Dave's mini-Schaller's in the previous post, I've found that the old standard size Schaller M-6 tuners appear to be a drop-in fit, with the screw holes also lining up. It so happens that my '73 Guild F-30R came with the Guild-branded Schallers that they commonly used in those days. I replaced them with a new set of Schallers a few years ago, and had the originals lying around in a parts box. Pulling one out to compare via eyeball testing, everything lines up, and the bushing threads are identical. Haven't decided for sure yet about putting full-size Schallers on the J-15, but it's nice to know there's an easy no-mod option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I've never had an issue with the chunky large Grovers on my J-45. The gold is wearing off but that looks cool, and they've always worked well. The J-15 has the smaller buttons, but work fine. I think I prefer the larger ones, but won't be changing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 The guy before me swapped the little nobs on mine to white Or I’d be taking my mini tuners off my j15 , gibsons just don’t look right unless the buttons are white to me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I must be the only player in the known universe who actually doesn’t mind Rotomatics-I’ve had Klusons, Schallers and Wilkinsons fail on me in the past but never Rotos. I’ve got them on my SJ200, J180 and Bird 12 string and have never thought about changing them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JuanCarlosVejar Posted May 28, 2018 Share Posted May 28, 2018 I must be the only player in the known universe who actually doesn’t mind Rotomatics-I’ve had Klusons, Schallers and Wilkinsons fail on me in the past but never Rotos. I’ve got them on my SJ200, J180 and Bird 12 string and have never thought about changing them. I don't mind them either. The gibson line has dicferent "features" for a reason ... but if people want change certain things I respect that JC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted May 28, 2018 Author Share Posted May 28, 2018 I must be the only player in the known universe who actually doesn’t mind Rotomatics-I’ve had Klusons, Schallers and Wilkinsons fail on me in the past but never Rotos. Standard size Grovers are just fine by me. I've got them on my J-185, J-50, and J-45 Rosewood (although on that one I swapped out the gold originals for nickel tulips), and multiple Guilds. My beef is exclusively with Mini-Grovers, which is what led to the original question of replacement options. Mine have a lot of slop & do not feel comfortable in hand. They've simply become an unnecessary irritant, which I will rectify in the near future. But standard Grovers - no problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted May 31, 2018 Share Posted May 31, 2018 I must be the only player in the known universe who actually doesn’t mind Rotomatics- Nope. Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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