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Gibson ES 335 or Epiphone 335 Pro...Be Honest

#1 User is offline   Bluesy69 

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Posted 19 June 2018 - 07:41 PM

Hey guy's now I know I'm in a Gibson forum, but your also ES lovers and guitar players who had to start with a moderate budget at one time...So please be honest, now I know there are some minor differences between these two models I've listed here.
Such as pick ups, capacitors, tuners, but for the most part they use the same wood for neck and body, same rosewood fretboard, same scale length.....and the sound in various comparison videos is nearly identical.

Now for those who can get over the obvious fact that Epiphone is made in China and wherever else, Gibson does have American employees in those Asian countries overseeing the quality and construction of these guitars, so realizing that, just what makes you want to spend $3000 more on a Gibson besides the name?
I myself have played and owned both and I personally prefer the slim taper neck on the Epiphone, which Gibson doesn't offer too often on too many ES models of recent, but truth be told I just did not see a $3000 difference and I went for the Epiphone because it honestly seemed just as nice, and for that much of a price difference...well after all these years I just couldn't see where all the difference in dollars have gone with the Gibson, and I've been playing for 30 years and I've owned almost every model of every brand you can think of at one time or another, it's just these differences seemed to have gotten more and more subtle to me over the years, what do you guys think?

So please look at these links with no bias, and please try to be as objective and honest as possible and tell me what is so drastically different, that someone would elect to spend $3000 more on the Gibson.
Just look at these links and compare specs, and then watch the YouTube videos and compare sounds, it's actually just happenstance that the guys in each video are lefties but I just like their similar tones and style of playing.So take a look and give an honest response keeping in mind Gibson owns Epiphone so there is no betrayal here just mere opinion of sound and feel.

http://www.epiphone....ES-335-PRO.aspx

http://www.gibson.co...spx#ESDP18VENH1

https://www.youtube....I&start_radio=1

https://www.youtube....h?v=D6C3VSDoPsE
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#2 User is offline   IanHenry 

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 03:15 AM

Hi,
I know it's a few years old now but it may be worth looking at this, it could still have a little relevance:




Ian
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#3 User is offline   LP Trad Pro II 

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 10:49 AM

I just put pups in my brother in laws Epi LP and I never spent that much time with and Epi before that, and I own one LP now and have owned 4 others. Seeing first hand the quality differences I would say Gibson all the way.
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#4 User is offline   Bluesy69 

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 10:58 AM

View PostIanHenry, on 20 June 2018 - 03:15 AM, said:

Hi,
I know it's a few years old now but it may be worth looking at this, it could still have a little relevance:




Ian



Yeah I saw that video a while back and I just watched it again to be fair, however they are talking about two different models than what I've mentioned here and the quality of Epiphone has really improved over these past few years.

So although I think it's fair to say an Epiphone may feel different or not quite as comfortable as certain Gibson's in a players hand, it also depends on the particular player as well as the guitar, and even then I don't believe it would feel $3000 different or better.
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#5 User is offline   JimB1 

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 11:46 AM

Well, I like Epiphone a lot when you get into their higher end stuff. I like my Epiphone LP far better then the lower end Gibson LP 60's tribute I had previously. Biggest things to me are the pickups and the finish. Epiphone uses a poly finish where Gibson uses a lacquer. Lacquer is easier to fix if (when?) it wears but not as protective as a poly. Poly tends to dampen the vibration of the guitar so the sound may be suppressed a little and it has a plasticky feel. Epiphone has gotten a lot better with their poly finishes and they are pretty thin on the higher ends stuff but still thicker then a lacquer is. Far as the pickups go, really that's for your ear to decide. Some people are fine with Epi, others swear by Gibson pickups. My Epi is a special edition that has Gibson USA Burstbuckers and they sound nice to me. Gibson may appreciate over time, but that is not at all guaranteed, modern Epiphones can only depreciate (with the exception maybe of the Japan made models).


I like this video, it's a great apples to apples 335 comparison:
https://youtu.be/fBmABxBcSGw

I know, it's something of a cop out but really I've heard some great sounding Epiphone Dots. I haven't heard any bad Gibson 335s or 355s yet. I have read about needing setups and things like that for both but I kind of think that you need to do that on any guitar you buy, it's just a maintenance thing to me not a negative. If you are looking to save a bit of cash and want a players guitar, Epiphone is your winner. If you are looking for the better guitar overall, Gibson is the choice.
Neither is a bad option, just depends what you are looking for and what you are willing to pay. I wouldn't hesitate on an Epi if that is what fits your budget.


JMHO
-Jim

This post has been edited by JimB1: 20 June 2018 - 11:48 AM

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#6 User is offline   LP Trad Pro II 

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 11:47 AM

View PostBluesy69, on 20 June 2018 - 10:58 AM, said:

Yeah I saw that video a while back and I just watched it again to be fair, however they are talking about two different models than what I've mentioned here and the quality of Epiphone has really improved over these past few years.

So although I think it's fair to say an Epiphone may feel different or not quite as comfortable as certain Gibson's in a players hand, it also depends on the particular player as well as the guitar, and even then I don't believe it would feel $3000 different or better.

Maybe yes maybe no, but I would put my Gibson BB King up against anything Epi could throw at it.
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#7 User is offline   Bluesy69 

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 01:32 PM

View PostJimB1, on 20 June 2018 - 11:46 AM, said:

Well, I like Epiphone a lot when you get into their higher end stuff. I like my Epiphone LP far better then the lower end Gibson LP 60's tribute I had previously. Biggest things to me are the pickups and the finish. Epiphone uses a poly finish where Gibson uses a lacquer. Lacquer is easier to fix if (when?) it wears but not as protective as a poly. Poly tends to dampen the vibration of the guitar so the sound may be suppressed a little and it has a plasticky feel. Epiphone has gotten a lot better with their poly finishes and they are pretty thin on the higher ends stuff but still thicker then a lacquer is. Far as the pickups go, really that's for your ear to decide. Some people are fine with Epi, others swear by Gibson pickups. My Epi is a special edition that has Gibson USA Burstbuckers and they sound nice to me. Gibson may appreciate over time, but that is not at all guaranteed, modern Epiphones can only depreciate (with the exception maybe of the Japan made models).


I like this video, it's a great apples to apples 335 comparison:
https://youtu.be/fBmABxBcSGw

I know, it's something of a cop out but really I've heard some great sounding Epiphone Dots. I haven't heard any bad Gibson 335s or 355s yet. I have read about needing setups and things like that for both but I kind of think that you need to do that on any guitar you buy, it's just a maintenance thing to me not a negative. If you are looking to save a bit of cash and want a players guitar, Epiphone is your winner. If you are looking for the better guitar overall, Gibson is the choice.
Neither is a bad option, just depends what you are looking for and what you are willing to pay. I wouldn't hesitate on an Epi if that is what fits your budget.


JMHO
-Jim




I've watched that video as well, and again their comparing an Epiphone Dot 335 to a Gibson Traditional 335, and the guitar I'm talking about is the Epiphone 335 Pro which does have different pick ups than the Dot model, so not an accurate comparison video in all fairness.
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#8 User is offline   Wmachine 

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Posted 20 June 2018 - 03:08 PM

View PostLP Trad Pro II, on 20 June 2018 - 11:47 AM, said:

Maybe yes maybe no, but I would put my Gibson BB King up against anything Epi could throw at it.

The BB King is great, but not even a close representation of a Gibson 335 to make a fair comparison to an EPI, cost or otherwise.
One would need to make exact comparisons to mean anything. A new EPI 335 Pro is specific enough. Now what year and model of what Gibson 345? They are all quite different.
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#9 User is offline   Bluesy69 

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 08:32 AM

View PostIanHenry, on 20 June 2018 - 03:15 AM, said:

Hi,
I know it's a few years old now but it may be worth looking at this, it could still have a little relevance:




Ian



Plus another thing you have to remember in video's like this, is that, the guy on the right (Lee Anderton) is the owner of one of the biggest music stores in England, and the guy on the left (Rob Chapman) is working for him in these video's.
So they will never admit on camera that the cheaper of any two guitars is the one to buy...they are trying to sell guitars and make as much money as possible.

Therefore they will always leave it off as the more expensive guitar just feeling and sounding a bit better than the cheaper guitar, and in a lot of cases it may be true, but as I said I have owned both, and I can tell you if they both have the same profile neck, the feel was the same, otherwise there was only ever a difference in sound because of the different pickups used, which we know is personal preference, and those can be swapped out regardless.

So bottom line is we can't believe every review we watch, especially from store owners or store employees.
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#10 User is offline   Wmachine 

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 10:26 AM

View PostBluesy69, on 21 June 2018 - 08:32 AM, said:

Plus another thing you have to remember in video's like this, is that, the guy on the right (Lee Anderton) is the owner of one of the biggest music stores in England, and the guy on the left (Rob Chapman) is working for him in these video's.
So they will never admit on camera that the cheaper of any two guitars is the one to buy...they are trying to sell guitars and make as much money as possible.

Therefore they will always leave it off as the more expensive guitar just feeling and sounding a bit better than the cheaper guitar, and in a lot of cases it may be true, but as I said I have owned both, and I can tell you if they both have the same profile neck, the feel was the same, otherwise there was only ever a difference in sound because of the different pickups used, which we know is personal preference, and those can be swapped out regardless.

So bottom line is we can't believe every review we watch, especially from store owners or store employees.

First of all, I'll say they may have some bias, but they have definitely not always chosen the more expensive guitar. I actually find them to be be pretty much objective with more subjectivity in their personal tastes than in a bias for the business.
Second, I do not agree with your comparative assessment at all. I don't know what you are comparing to what (that makes a huge difference), but speaking of several '16-'17 Gibson ES models and recent EPI dot and ES335 PROs, while I find the EPI PRO to be really decent and a great bang for the buck, it is not in the same league as the Gibsons. And it is not just the pups. We're not talking bad vs good, but good vs. better.
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#11 User is offline   Bluesy69 

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 12:15 PM

View PostWmachine, on 21 June 2018 - 10:26 AM, said:

First of all, I'll say they may have some bias, but they have definitely not always chosen the more expensive guitar. I actually find them to be be pretty much objective with more subjectivity in their personal tastes than in a bias for the business.
Second, I do not agree with your comparative assessment at all. I don't know what you are comparing to what (that makes a huge difference), but speaking of several '16-'17 Gibson ES models and recent EPI dot and ES335 PROs, while I find the EPI PRO to be really decent and a great bang for the buck, it is not in the same league as the Gibsons. And it is not just the pups. We're not talking bad vs good, but good vs. better.



You have to realize something though, after a certain amount of time goes by, if a company has had the good fortune to be in business for 50 to 100 years their brand name carries a lot of clout along with it, and before you know it after countless ads, and marketing and sales it's at the top of that particular product industry that they produce, which propels that name into super stardom..

Here's an example, my teenage son works part time and buy's himself $250 Nike sneakers from Footlocker, I pick up a pair of $20 no name brand sneakers at Wal-mart, now my son and I both wear 10-1/2 size shoes, so I told him lets swap shoes for a minute and walk around the house, and we did.
Once done I asked him, now forgetting name brands and price, did they feel any different on your feet? and he said no, I said ok yours felt no different to me either, now lets wait 6 weeks and see how much wear and tear is on each pair of shoes, and we did...and both seemed to have a small layer of rubber sole worn away, and the inside padding flattened down considerably.

My lesson to him was name brands don't always mean a better product, and can end up costing you more money just for the name.
The Epiphone name has officially been in existence longer than Gibson, however since C.M.I. who also owned Gibson at the time bought them out in 1957 and used them to make Gibson style guitars, things changed, especially after the 70's & 80's when Epiphone was moved to Asian countries to be made.

Now the Gibson company of the 50's to the 80's made thee best guitars on the planet BAR NONE ! equal to if not better than Fender and everyone else, at that time.....and therefore, at that time if you had a Gibson, well then you had a perfect treasure of an instrument that would actually increase in value, while during those same years Epiphones were made with a lesser quality to say the least, compared to a Gibson from that time.

Fast forward to today Gibson's name is still among the best in the world, but there is still Fender, and Rickenbacker, and of course PRS, and during the 90's and early 2000's Gibson's quality and attention to detail suffered greatly, and that jackass of a C.E.O. that they just got rid of didn't help things either.
However lets fast forward to this past decade where Gibson's quality is basically a hit or miss but better than it was 20 years ago, although now Epiphone's quality has greatly improved, and there are such comparison video's on YouTube where the Bionic Woman could not hear the difference in sound quality between a Gibson and an Epiphone.

The point of all this is your paying for the name, that's all and that's it, body styles are the same, woods are the same neck profiles are the same in certain models, pickups are subjective to the player, capacitors may last longer on the Gibson depending upon the amount of use, otherwise I will go so far as to say these guitars listed here in this post are 98% the same, and for that measly 2 percent and the name of Gibson people are coughing up $3000, and it's just not always necessary depending on the model.

So I hope you or anyone else is not replying to this because you or someone else paid the $3500 plus for the Gibson brand and is trying to justify the purchase, because that's not being honest...If you want to be honest go to a music store with your smart phone find another guitar playing customer in the store and ask him to try and Epiphone 335 Pro and a Gibson 335 traditional and then record him doing so, and continue recording when he's done and ask him if he felt a $3000 difference between the two, whether he liked the Gibson better or not, just ask if he felt and heard a $3000 difference, and I guarantee you his answer will be no.
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#12 User is offline   Pin 

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 01:47 PM

Sorry Bluesy but there just ain't no contest.

No, they do NOT use the same woods. The Gibson woods are of higher quality and the construction is far better. It is for this reason alone that model for model the sound is different. Yes, I agree that for some models it gets darn close but it is not the same.

I'll give you an example from personal experience:

Many, many years ago I had a Gibson ES345 1964. Like so many of us on here I sold it and have regretted it ever since. I din't ever think I would own a similar Gibson again.


When Epiphone brought out their version of the ES345 I was elated. I ordered one in advance and made extensive high grade modifications. It was a damn good guitar no question.

But then I came by a bit of money unexpectedly at the same time Gibson started making reissue ES345s. I could not resist and got a 1959 reissue ES345. Not the same as my 1964 but - in my opinion - even better.

I was obviously able to directly compare the Epiphone with the Gibson. The difference was astonishing. Just no comparison. The Gibson was leagues better. The Epiphone was nowhere near the same class (and sound).

I got rid of the Epiphone.

Case closed.
GUITARS: 1978 Gibson Les Paul 25 / 50; Gibson ES345 1959 Reissue; 1974 Yamaha AE12 jazz box; Yamaha SG2000: Fender "Roland Ready" Strat; Epiphone Les Paul '56; Epiphone SG400; HK Steinberger copy; Cimar Classical.
AMPS & EFFECTS: Various effects, synths and Mesa Maverick 1 x 12.
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#13 User is offline   Bluesy69 

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Posted 21 June 2018 - 02:28 PM

View PostPin, on 21 June 2018 - 01:47 PM, said:

Sorry Bluesy but there just ain't no contest.

No, they do NOT use the same woods. The Gibson woods are of higher quality and the construction is far better. It is for this reason alone that model for model the sound is different. Yes, I agree that for some models it gets darn close but it is not the same.

I'll give you an example from personal experience:

Many, many years ago I had a Gibson ES345 1964. Like so many of us on here I sold it and have regretted it ever since. I din't ever think I would own a similar Gibson again.


When Epiphone brought out their version of the ES345 I was elated. I ordered one in advance and made extensive high grade modifications. It was a damn good guitar no question.

But then I came by a bit of money unexpectedly at the same time Gibson started making reissue ES345s. I could not resist and got a 1959 reissue ES345. Not the same as my 1964 but - in my opinion - even better.

I was obviously able to directly compare the Epiphone with the Gibson. The difference was astonishing. Just no comparison. The Gibson was leagues better. The Epiphone was nowhere near the same class (and sound).

I got rid of the Epiphone.

Case closed.



You do realize of course that today all the guitar companies source their wood from the same place right? Due to the shortages of the commonly used mahogany, maple and rosewood, selections.
Gibson is perhaps better equipped to extract the moisture content from the woods with more control and in more precise ways than others, but especially since Gibson owns Epiphone, they get there wood from the same contractor.

Secondly Gibson is also better equipped with auto-cad machines and original program specs for those machines such as the ES345 to be able to make it exactly how it was, and while all of this does make for a better guitar, I prefer the guitars more made by hand then by machine when it comes to wood sculpting.
Now I'm not saying I prefer Epiphone over Gibson, I am saying that even though Gibson DOES make better guitars than Epiphone they are not $3000 better, $1000 maybe.

Just like if I had to choose between buying a fun 4x4 off road Jeep Rubicon or a more practical and fuel efficient Toyota Rav 4, I'm choosing the Toyota, why? because the Toyota is more affordable, better on gas, also 4 wheel drive and much more reliable, and yet they both do the same thing, get me from point A to point B.
The guitars listed here look similar, sound similar and feel similar.....Does one look, sound, and feel better than the other? of course it does, but not enough for me to pay another $3000.
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#14 User is offline   IanHenry 

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 02:46 AM

View PostBluesy69, on 21 June 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

You have to realize something though, after a certain amount of time goes by, if a company has had the good fortune to be in business for 50 to 100 years their brand name carries a lot of clout along with it, and before you know it after countless ads, and marketing and sales it's at the top of that particular product industry that they produce, which propels that name into super stardom..

Here's an example, my teenage son works part time and buy's himself $250 Nike sneakers from Footlocker, I pick up a pair of $20 no name brand sneakers at Wal-mart, now my son and I both wear 10-1/2 size shoes, so I told him lets swap shoes for a minute and walk around the house, and we did.
Once done I asked him, now forgetting name brands and price, did they feel any different on your feet? and he said no, I said ok yours felt no different to me either, now lets wait 6 weeks and see how much wear and tear is on each pair of shoes, and we did...and both seemed to have a small layer of rubber sole worn away, and the inside padding flattened down considerably.

My lesson to him was name brands don't always mean a better product, and can end up costing you more money just for the name.
The Epiphone name has officially been in existence longer than Gibson, however since C.M.I. who also owned Gibson at the time bought them out in 1957 and used them to make Gibson style guitars, things changed, especially after the 70's & 80's when Epiphone was moved to Asian countries to be made.

Now the Gibson company of the 50's to the 80's made thee best guitars on the planet BAR NONE ! equal to if not better than Fender and everyone else, at that time.....and therefore, at that time if you had a Gibson, well then you had a perfect treasure of an instrument that would actually increase in value, while during those same years Epiphones were made with a lesser quality to say the least, compared to a Gibson from that time.

Fast forward to today Gibson's name is still among the best in the world, but there is still Fender, and Rickenbacker, and of course PRS, and during the 90's and early 2000's Gibson's quality and attention to detail suffered greatly, and that jackass of a C.E.O. that they just got rid of didn't help things either.
However lets fast forward to this past decade where Gibson's quality is basically a hit or miss but better than it was 20 years ago, although now Epiphone's quality has greatly improved, and there are such comparison video's on YouTube where the Bionic Woman could not hear the difference in sound quality between a Gibson and an Epiphone.

The point of all this is your paying for the name, that's all and that's it, body styles are the same, woods are the same neck profiles are the same in certain models, pickups are subjective to the player, capacitors may last longer on the Gibson depending upon the amount of use, otherwise I will go so far as to say these guitars listed here in this post are 98% the same, and for that measly 2 percent and the name of Gibson people are coughing up $3000, and it's just not always necessary depending on the model.

So I hope you or anyone else is not replying to this because you or someone else paid the $3500 plus for the Gibson brand and is trying to justify the purchase, because that's not being honest...If you want to be honest go to a music store with your smart phone find another guitar playing customer in the store and ask him to try and Epiphone 335 Pro and a Gibson 335 traditional and then record him doing so, and continue recording when he's done and ask him if he felt a $3000 difference between the two, whether he liked the Gibson better or not, just ask if he felt and heard a $3000 difference, and I guarantee you his answer will be no.


Well it sounds like you've answered your own question doesn't it!


Ian
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#15 User is offline   Wmachine 

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 06:22 AM

View PostBluesy69, on 21 June 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

You have to realize something though, after a certain amount of time goes by, if a company has had the good fortune to be in business for 50 to 100 years their brand name carries a lot of clout along with it, and before you know it after countless ads, and marketing and sales it's at the top of that particular product industry that they produce, which propels that name into super stardom..

Here's an example, my teenage son works part time and buy's himself $250 Nike sneakers from Footlocker, I pick up a pair of $20 no name brand sneakers at Wal-mart, now my son and I both wear 10-1/2 size shoes, so I told him lets swap shoes for a minute and walk around the house, and we did.
Once done I asked him, now forgetting name brands and price, did they feel any different on your feet? and he said no, I said ok yours felt no different to me either, now lets wait 6 weeks and see how much wear and tear is on each pair of shoes, and we did...and both seemed to have a small layer of rubber sole worn away, and the inside padding flattened down considerably.

My lesson to him was name brands don't always mean a better product, and can end up costing you more money just for the name.
The Epiphone name has officially been in existence longer than Gibson, however since C.M.I. who also owned Gibson at the time bought them out in 1957 and used them to make Gibson style guitars, things changed, especially after the 70's & 80's when Epiphone was moved to Asian countries to be made.

Now the Gibson company of the 50's to the 80's made thee best guitars on the planet BAR NONE ! equal to if not better than Fender and everyone else, at that time.....and therefore, at that time if you had a Gibson, well then you had a perfect treasure of an instrument that would actually increase in value, while during those same years Epiphones were made with a lesser quality to say the least, compared to a Gibson from that time.

Fast forward to today Gibson's name is still among the best in the world, but there is still Fender, and Rickenbacker, and of course PRS, and during the 90's and early 2000's Gibson's quality and attention to detail suffered greatly, and that jackass of a C.E.O. that they just got rid of didn't help things either.
However lets fast forward to this past decade where Gibson's quality is basically a hit or miss but better than it was 20 years ago, although now Epiphone's quality has greatly improved, and there are such comparison video's on YouTube where the Bionic Woman could not hear the difference in sound quality between a Gibson and an Epiphone.

The point of all this is your paying for the name, that's all and that's it, body styles are the same, woods are the same neck profiles are the same in certain models, pickups are subjective to the player, capacitors may last longer on the Gibson depending upon the amount of use, otherwise I will go so far as to say these guitars listed here in this post are 98% the same, and for that measly 2 percent and the name of Gibson people are coughing up $3000, and it's just not always necessary depending on the model.

So I hope you or anyone else is not replying to this because you or someone else paid the $3500 plus for the Gibson brand and is trying to justify the purchase, because that's not being honest...If you want to be honest go to a music store with your smart phone find another guitar playing customer in the store and ask him to try and Epiphone 335 Pro and a Gibson 335 traditional and then record him doing so, and continue recording when he's done and ask him if he felt a $3000 difference between the two, whether he liked the Gibson better or not, just ask if he felt and heard a $3000 difference, and I guarantee you his answer will be no.

I don't "have to realize" anything here because I'm already quite aware of what you were saying. And simply put, just like brand name doesn't mean it is better, it also doesn't mean that it is worse. I have no doubt that I'm every bit as astute and knowledgeable a consumer as you and probably more so. Don't patronize me and suggest I overpaid for Gibsons I have. I doubt you ever paid less than I did for what I have.
Don't underestimate someone just because they don't agree with you. I have all the evidence (hands on) I need to come to my conclusions, and your "opinions" don't change that at all.

This post has been edited by Wmachine: 22 June 2018 - 06:26 AM

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#16 User is offline   kidblast 

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 07:09 AM

View PostBluesy69, on 21 June 2018 - 12:15 PM, said:

You have to realize something though, after a certain amount of time goes by, if a company has had the good fortune to be in business for 50 to 100 years their brand name carries a lot of clout along with it, and before you know it after countless ads, and marketing and sales it's at the top of that particular product industry that they produce, which propels that name into super stardom..

Here's an example, my teenage son works part time and buy's himself $250 Nike sneakers from Footlocker, I pick up a pair of $20 no name brand sneakers at Wal-mart, now my son and I both wear 10-1/2 size shoes, so I told him lets swap shoes for a minute and walk around the house, and we did.
Once done I asked him, now forgetting name brands and price, did they feel any different on your feet? and he said no, I said ok yours felt no different to me either, now lets wait 6 weeks and see how much wear and tear is on each pair of shoes, and we did...and both seemed to have a small layer of rubber sole worn away, and the inside padding flattened down considerably.

My lesson to him was name brands don't always mean a better product, and can end up costing you more money just for the name.
The Epiphone name has officially been in existence longer than Gibson, however since C.M.I. who also owned Gibson at the time bought them out in 1957 and used them to make Gibson style guitars, things changed, especially after the 70's & 80's when Epiphone was moved to Asian countries to be made.

Now the Gibson company of the 50's to the 80's made thee best guitars on the planet BAR NONE ! equal to if not better than Fender and everyone else, at that time.....and therefore, at that time if you had a Gibson, well then you had a perfect treasure of an instrument that would actually increase in value, while during those same years Epiphones were made with a lesser quality to say the least, compared to a Gibson from that time.

Fast forward to today Gibson's name is still among the best in the world, but there is still Fender, and Rickenbacker, and of course PRS, and during the 90's and early 2000's Gibson's quality and attention to detail suffered greatly, and that jackass of a C.E.O. that they just got rid of didn't help things either.
However lets fast forward to this past decade where Gibson's quality is basically a hit or miss but better than it was 20 years ago, although now Epiphone's quality has greatly improved, and there are such comparison video's on YouTube where the Bionic Woman could not hear the difference in sound quality between a Gibson and an Epiphone.

The point of all this is your paying for the name, that's all and that's it, body styles are the same, woods are the same neck profiles are the same in certain models, pickups are subjective to the player, capacitors may last longer on the Gibson depending upon the amount of use, otherwise I will go so far as to say these guitars listed here in this post are 98% the same, and for that measly 2 percent and the name of Gibson people are coughing up $3000, and it's just not always necessary depending on the model.

So I hope you or anyone else is not replying to this because you or someone else paid the $3500 plus for the Gibson brand and is trying to justify the purchase, because that's not being honest...If you want to be honest go to a music store with your smart phone find another guitar playing customer in the store and ask him to try and Epiphone 335 Pro and a Gibson 335 traditional and then record him doing so, and continue recording when he's done and ask him if he felt a $3000 difference between the two, whether he liked the Gibson better or not, just ask if he felt and heard a $3000 difference, and I guarantee you his answer will be no.



tell ya what... Go find an Epiphone EJ200, then go play a Gibson SJ200 Standard. Then tell me if the name is the reason the SJ200 is 5k and the EJ200 is 500 bucks.

I've been playing since I was about 10.. I'm 61... I've had hundreds of guitars pass thru my possession. There is no comparing a USA made Gibson to an Indonesian / Asian import. Never has been one, never will be. The imports ARE better than they were, 15/20 years ago, they were laughable. They are no longer joke, they're DECENT guitars and worth the money, but they are not on par with a USA made "like" model.
/Ray
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#17 User is offline   LP Trad Pro II 

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 02:51 PM

If you like the Epi so much get it. Life is too short for cheap guitars, beer, scotch ect. It's the difference between a pinto and a Porsche. They both do the same thing, but ...

This post has been edited by LP Trad Pro II: 22 June 2018 - 02:52 PM

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#18 User is offline   Bluesy69 

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Posted 22 June 2018 - 11:44 PM

View PostLP Trad Pro II, on 22 June 2018 - 02:51 PM, said:

If you like the Epi so much get it. Life is too short for cheap guitars, beer, scotch ect. It's the difference between a pinto and a Porsche. They both do the same thing, but ...



As usual things are misconstrued , so allow me to clarify, I LOVE GIBSONS.... I PREFER GIBSONS....All I was ever saying was that I think now a days Gibson has gotten so full of themselves and their name that they have been resting on their laurels and charge astronomical prices for mediocre quality.

Why hasn't Fender had such massive price hikes? The Stratocaster is equally as popular as the Les Paul, but the most expensive strat is like $2000 but all other American models can be had for $1800 and under, Les Paul Standard or Traditional or HP models start at $2700 and $3200 or $3700.

The company was forced to restructure for a variety of reasons, the jackass C.E.O., the extra electronic companies they purchased.....and most important over priced guitars with hit or miss build quality.

So all I'm saying is if Epiphone can crank out such close and accurate quality guitars to their Gibson counter parts for such a low price, then maybe Gibson should crank out steady flawless quality guitars with like $1000 price drop per model.

Then I truly believe guitars will fly out of the stores....and for the record I do own a new Epiphone ES335 Pro, and I love it, and there is nothing about it that I would ever change, but I also plan on getting a Gibson Les Paul in the near future, and I hope when I do, that I get a good price or at least a flawless quality instrument for the money, in recent years Gibson has not offered much of either, I am hoping the companies restructuring will change that.
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#19 User is offline   kidblast 

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Posted 23 June 2018 - 05:54 AM

View PostBluesy69, on 22 June 2018 - 11:44 PM, said:

As usual things are misconstrued , so allow me to clarify, I LOVE GIBSONS.... I PREFER GIBSONS....All I was ever saying was that I think now a days Gibson has gotten so full of themselves and their name that they have been resting on their laurels and charge astronomical prices for mediocre quality.

Why hasn't Fender had such massive price hikes? The Stratocaster is equally as popular as the Les Paul, but the most expensive strat is like $2000 but all other American models can be had for $1800 and under, Les Paul Standard or Traditional or HP models start at $2700 and $3200 or $3700.

The company was forced to restructure for a variety of reasons, the jackass C.E.O., the extra electronic companies they purchased.....and most important over priced guitars with hit or miss build quality.

So all I'm saying is if Epiphone can crank out such close and accurate quality guitars to their Gibson counter parts for such a low price, then maybe Gibson should crank out steady flawless quality guitars with like $1000 price drop per model.

Then I truly believe guitars will fly out of the stores....and for the record I do own a new Epiphone ES335 Pro, and I love it, and there is nothing about it that I would ever change, but I also plan on getting a Gibson Les Paul in the near future, and I hope when I do, that I get a good price or at least a flawless quality instrument for the money, in recent years Gibson has not offered much of either, I am hoping the companies restructuring will change that.


Cost wise I think it's the strat v Lp compare is a bit tuff to do. A lot more detail work happening with the Gibson, just hard to make a straight up one-for-one there I believe. Personally speaking I think $2k for a strat is on the high side, just as I believe the cost of LP Standard is nutty too. Then again, who'd a thought we'd be paying 300 bucks a month for FIOS/Cable + Internet

On the other side, I've got a few eiphones that I've kept. And a few that I sold (just wasn't using them) I kept a regent from 2010, and a Sheraton Pro II which was a fairly recent purchase (2015). Impressive players for the money. I'm not sure I'd stack that Sherry up against a ES335, but it's a great player in it's own right. Hardware & electronics are of very good quality. For about 800 bucks w/case, definitely a good deal. I'd still love an ES335 tho, but I'll probably never pursue one. I'm pretty happy with the 6 Gibsons I do have, (2 LP Standards, SG Standard, SG Classic, ES135 and an SJ200)

To be fair, I will restate that the overall QC of Epi's has shot way up in the last few years. But still, they are mass produced, and much of what happens is controlled by CNC machines with humans watching. Gibson is still doing a lot of "by hand" work, and the human factors will come into play.

If prices could come down a bit, and Gibson lowered the bar for the local stores to be a dealer, I think you're right. Their sales would probably spike. But they seem dead set in their ways, and at this point will be lucky to survive the Chapter 11 with lopping off too many limbs. And besdies, with the hole they are in, the guitar sales would probably need to go off the charts to make a difference in their books.

at the end of the day though I'll still wager that the differences in an $800 Epi LP and a $3,000 Gibson LP will be noticeable to seasoned, skilled musicians. I say this assuming 100% that you would fall into this category. Is it $2,200 dollars better? That is up to the buyer to decide. many people will happily accept the compromise to lower the cost. That doesn't mean all things are created equal, it just means they're happy with the score, and that's all that matters.

One of my best friends who's also a fantastic player, has a stable of imports that he picks up off eBay for short money, cleans them up, repairs what ever is needed, sets them up nicely, and plays them till he decides to move on and do it all over again with another couple of bargain basement specials. No one knows he's playing a $200 import except for him, and he doesn't care. Do I feel the diff when I play them? yes, I do,, they ALL sort of feel / respond the same to me. They just LOOK different.

This post has been edited by kidblast: 23 June 2018 - 06:08 AM

/Ray
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#20 User is offline   Wmachine 

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Posted 24 June 2018 - 01:35 PM

View PostBluesy69, on 22 June 2018 - 11:44 PM, said:

As usual things are misconstrued , so allow me to clarify, I LOVE GIBSONS.... I PREFER GIBSONS....All I was ever saying was that I think now a days Gibson has gotten so full of themselves and their name that they have been resting on their laurels and charge astronomical prices for mediocre quality.

Why hasn't Fender had such massive price hikes? The Stratocaster is equally as popular as the Les Paul, but the most expensive strat is like $2000 but all other American models can be had for $1800 and under, Les Paul Standard or Traditional or HP models start at $2700 and $3200 or $3700.

The company was forced to restructure for a variety of reasons, the jackass C.E.O., the extra electronic companies they purchased.....and most important over priced guitars with hit or miss build quality.

So all I'm saying is if Epiphone can crank out such close and accurate quality guitars to their Gibson counter parts for such a low price, then maybe Gibson should crank out steady flawless quality guitars with like $1000 price drop per model.

Then I truly believe guitars will fly out of the stores....and for the record I do own a new Epiphone ES335 Pro, and I love it, and there is nothing about it that I would ever change, but I also plan on getting a Gibson Les Paul in the near future, and I hope when I do, that I get a good price or at least a flawless quality instrument for the money, in recent years Gibson has not offered much of either, I am hoping the companies restructuring will change that.


I don't things were misconstrued at all. You said "now I know there are some minor differences" and "these guitars listed here in this post are 98% the same" and "The point of all this is your paying for the name, that's all and that's it" and more.
I (and others here) don't agree. There is nothing to misconstrue in those statements. Seems everyone can agree that EPIs are decent and better than before. And everyone can agree they are priced too high. But no way are differences as minute as you say.
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