MIcs for live performing

[uncle fester]

Folks,

 

I know there's lots of constraints to using mics for live performance, but if you had to use one (could not use a pickup for whatever reason) what would you use?

 

I like to use the guitar for more than just rhythm, so want to be able to capture some good dynamics, but very wary of feedback.

 

Also, I've got a Shure SM57 for vocals and Shure SM58 for guitar (or vice versa) and wasn't super psyched with how close I had to get the mic to the guitar to get the dynamics I wanted... and feedback was something of a problem.

 

Any input is appreciated.

 

Rgds - billroy

[sparquelito]

Folks,

 

I know there's lots of constraints to using mics for live performance, but if you had to use one (could not use a pickup for whatever reason) what would you use?

 

I like to use the guitar for more than just rhythm, so want to be able to capture some good dynamics, but very wary of feedback.

 

Also, I've got a Shure SM57 for vocals and Shure SM58 for guitar (or vice versa) and wasn't super psyched with how close I had to get the mic to the guitar to get the dynamics I wanted... and feedback was something of a problem.

 

Any input is appreciated.

 

Rgds - billroy

 

 

You have everything you need right there, billroy.

 

I would recommend the Shure SM58 for vocals, just scant millimeters from your mouth.

 

Use the SM57 for the guitar, approximately six-to-eight inches from the sound hole.

 

I have never had a single problem using either of those Shure mic's in that manner.

Most of the magic happens with your settings on the PA mixer.

 

[BluesKing777]

Is this to do with playing at your upcoming open mic?

 

Or a general question about live mics?

 

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

[Murph]

The SM57 has been an industry standard (instrument mic) for decades. I use one all the time, more now because I'm playing acoustic guitar, a 1933 Gibson mandolin with no pickup, and a resonator (dobro) with no pickup, and it's a pain to swap stuff around a lot in a live situation. It's easier to just move the mic.

 

It's probably not the BEST instrument mic, however it is a good one and very tough and reliable. If I had my druthers, an unlimited budget and a sound guy I'd probably be using a condenser or two. The ETL's are reasonably priced and used quite a lot lately by some major acts.

 

This is David Lindley at Fur Peace Ranch.

 

 

More David.

 

 

 

 

He's miced a few instruments in his day.

[uncle fester]

Is this to do with playing at your upcoming open mic?

 

Or a general question about live mics?

 

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

Hey BK - this is just a general question, I've already got my plan of attack for the open mic, not going to mess with that ; )

[uncle fester]

The SM57 has been an industry standard (instrument mic) for decades. nably priced and used quite a lot lately by some major acts.

 

 

Thanks Murph / sparquelito, good to know I'm on solid footing, maybe I can get better, but shouldn't need to. Seen a few folks like David Lindley playing with mics, and I play mostly sitting right now, so it got me wondering.

[tpbiii]

We have several mics and several sound systems. We are pretty much acoustic musicians -- of our 200 or so acoustic instruments, only three have pickups and they are stored in three separate States (or Provinces). We mourn when we must use them, but we will if we must.

 

Every environment is different, and the total sound environment is the job of the sound man -- if you have one. We use two different classes of mics on stage -- close action stage mics and large diaphragm condenser mics. They are used for different kinds of places.

 

We too use SM58s and SM 57s for close action stage mics. They are dual element mics -- small acoustic directional acoustic antennas. The reason they are that way is to reject sound that is off axis and is not close to the mics. They are wonderful in addressing these difficult problems like feedback, but they do not provide anything like a faithful reproduction of the voice or instrument being played into them. In fact (as most of you know I guess) that is why an SM58 sounds changes dramatically as you go from far to very close. If you have stage monitors (or perhaps you can hear the mains), that total system combined with your instruments and voice are an intrinsic part of the music delivery system. Most people use that to create music they like -- we do -- BUT it is not a true presentation of the acoustic music. In effect, the mics are an instrument you are also playing. So you trade authenticity for a usable stage.

 

Our favorite thing to do is to play around a single large diaphragm condenser mic -- voices and instruments. This only works in the right places -- not too loud and with a quite audience. The mic we use is sort of a standard -- AT 4033. Since my wife plays a standup bass, we now mic that separately with an SM57 wrapped in foam. We have tried oh-so-many bass pickups and their interaction with sound system have driven us to the simple solution.

 

Good luck,

-Tom

[uncle fester]

 

We too use SM58s and SM 57s for close action stage mics. .... they do not provide anything like a faithful reproduction of the voice or instrument being played into them.

 

 

****My whole goal in this is to have a more accurate representation of the instrument. Since the SM 57 / 58s aren't the best for that, are there any mics you can think of that are better for an accurate representation?

 

 

Our favorite thing to do is to play around a single large diaphragm condenser mic -- voices and instruments.

 

****Is it always a blend of all instruments, or can you highlight an instrument when needed, and how, but repositioning on the stage?

[Southern Son of Gilbert]

I use Shure beta 87a Mics for vocals but you gotta have phantom power on your board. I've got 57's and 58's for instrument mics-just depends. The 57's are really HOT and you gotta watch your angle of placement or you'll feedback like crazy! IMHO the 87's have a clear crisp vocal much better than 58's.

[tpbiii]

****My whole goal in this is to have a more accurate representation of the instrument. Since the SM 57 / 58s aren't the best for that, are there any mics you can think of that are better for an accurate representation?

 

There are a lot of good condenser mics that can do that job well. The problem is that the better they work for faithful reproduction, generally the less stage noise rejection they have. A rock and a hard place. We do use them sometimes -- for example, for a fiddle player who plays always close the the condenser mic. Also, audiences don't necessarily prefer faithful reproduction -- if they did, reverb and other effects would not be so popular.

 

****Is it always a blend of all instruments, or can you highlight an instrument when needed, and how, but repositioning on the stage?

 

You work the mic -- move around.

 

Here is a convenient example from a jam show last month. The fiddler on the right has her own condenser mic. The other instruments work the AT-4033

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWKMjJ5KHqo

Best,

-Tom

 

[BluesKing777]

The Shure SM57 was designed for high air pressure loud things like snare drums and saxaphones and then as live rock music came in, the soundpeople found it the best for sticking in front of a blasting 100 watt Marshall stack ala Jimi!

 

So if you want to mic an acoustic guitar with a 57, you don't have much level/volume. Nice at a small club/cafe with people sitting listening - they will hear it but you won't unless you have monitors very soft.

 

That said, my Allen & Heath 4 channel mixer has nice preamps for each channel and using headphones, I can get a fantastic sound with the 57 on a guitar.....so maybe consider using a nice little mixer like the A&H and wear headphones. Works nicely. But people will think you are the DJ.... :huh:

 

In the end most guitarists give up and get a decent pickup like the Baggs M1A or M80. (If you use the mic while also using the pickup, you can get a nice sound a bit more quietly.) The other alternative is a dual source pickup system with a small mic inside the guitar or on a soundhole pickup....louder you play, the less mic you can add. Schertler Mag + S Mic or Fishman rare Earth Blend....

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

[gfa]

 

Our favorite thing to do is to play around a single large diaphragm condenser mic -- voices and instruments. This only works in the right places -- not too loud and with a quite audience. The mic we use is sort of a standard -- AT 4033. Since my wife plays a standup bass, we now mic that separately with an SM57 wrapped in foam. We have tried oh-so-many bass pickups and their interaction with sound system have driven us to the simple solution.

 

Good luck,

-Tom

Me too, or close to it. We use two LDCs for a little more flexibility in our physical movements.

[uncle fester]

 

You work the mic -- move around.

 

Here is a convenient example from a jam show last month. The fiddler on the right has her own condenser mic. The other instruments work the AT-4033

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jWKMjJ5KHqo

Best,

-Tom

 

 

Tom, in the solos you've got a mandolin, and harmonica, both pretty piercing instruments, could you get close enough to the mic with a guitar if you wanted to do a solo that really hi-lights the guitar?

 

Rgds- billroy

[uncle fester]

 

In the end most guitarists give up and get a decent pickup like the Baggs M1A or M80. (If you use the mic while also using the pickup, you can get a nice sound a bit more quietly.)

 

BluesKing777.

 

I think you're right BK, it seems like you can mic your guitar and get a good sound, but the devil in it all is background and room noise, and the pick up ends up being the solution. Now I'm torn between the Baggs, K&K, and Sunrise? (the one Buc gave Jinder).... a whole new train of thought starting now.

[BluesKing777]

I think you're right BK, it seems like you can mic your guitar and get a good sound, but the devil in it all is background and room noise, and the pick up ends up being the solution. Now I'm torn between the Baggs, K&K, and Sunrise? (the one Buc gave Jinder).... a whole new train of thought starting now.

 

Ease of use......

 

 

Baggs M1A and Baggs M80 have preamps included! Plug straight in to a PA mixer at a gig, open mic, blues jam.

 

K&K and Sunrise don’t have preamps inbuilt.

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

[BluesKing777]

[quote name='BluesKing777' timestamp='1536704395' post='1953496

 

 

 

 

Sorry, double post - pressed the wrong button.

 

 

BluesKing777.

[tpbiii]

Tom, in the solos you've got a mandolin, and harmonica, both pretty piercing instruments, could you get close enough to the mic with a guitar if you wanted to do a solo that really hi-lights the guitar?

 

Rgds- billroy

 

Oh yea -- you have to get closer, but there is no problem. I did not do it because I can't pick Old Joe Clark on a guitar at the same pace as Kayla, the fiddle player.

Here is a version of Road to Columbus with mandolin, guitar, and harmonica. There are three AT-4033s on stage, which makes it more convenient but not really acoustically different from just one.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vooo9aWkyXc

 

Best,

-Tom