Should Gibson drop the Epiphone name?

[pippy]

I honestly don't see how you could possibly "devalue" the Gibson name anymore than it already has been. Outside of the VERY dedicated Gibson fan, the perception of Gibson as a brand is not very positive. They're seen as a bloated, hubris company with poor quality control and overpriced products...

...Frankly some of you sound like you've been existing in a very small echo chamber and don't realize just how tarnished Gibson's name and reputation has become...

You obviously need to get out of your own echo chamber more often.

You are talking piffle.

 

Pip.

[BenderOfStrings]

You obviously need to get out of your own echo chamber more often.

You are talking piffle.

 

Pip.

 

Yeah sure, if you say so.

[Big Bill]

Ahhh. So it appears we have a troll. Explains the low post count.

 

 

 

 

[pippy]

Ahhh. So it appears we have a troll. Explains the low post count....

Someone who has started two posts the sole purpose behind both being the denigration of the Gibson range and Brand?

 

Explains the Little Grey Cell count too.

 

Pip.

[BenderOfStrings]

Someone who has started two posts the sole purpose behind both being the denigration of the Gibson range and Brand?

 

Explains the Little Grey Cell count too.

 

Pip.

 

Yes because sheepishly going along with anything and everything Gibson does with nary a squeak of criticism is the ultimate showing of intelligence.

[Big Bill]

[Big Bill]

What if you feed them Bono and The Edge?

 

They get the runs for a day or two

[pippy]

Yes because sheepishly going along with anything and everything Gibson does with nary a squeak of criticism is the ultimate showing of intelligence.

Well you have been here less than one week, BOS, so we can forgive you for not appreciating that there always has been - and there will continue to be - a great deal of negative / critical comments directed towards the Gibson company, some of the recent leadership decisions taken by the board and of the products offered by said company posted here by forum members on a near-daily basis. Their financial issues have also been aired and discussed openly and fully with, as you might (or might not) expect, a considerable degree of distaste for the manner in which the situation has been / is being handled.

 

To believe that the members here are simply a bunch of near-sighted Gibson FanBoys is to be so wide of the mark as to be quite laughable.

 

A Troll you may or may not be; but if you are not intending to be seen as a Troll then please do hang around for a bit longer and get to know more about how the forum behaves.

Who knows; you might even end up enjoying your time here.

 

Just a thought.

 

Pip.

[Big Bill]

Damn it, Pip took the high road!

[pippy]

Damn it, Pip took the high road!

 

I couldn't help myself on account of my having been brainwashed by this propagandic televisual feast nonsense for 23 years of "growing up" (if you can call it that) in Scotland...

 

https://player.stv.t...-the-high-road/

 

Pip.

[BenderOfStrings]

 

I couldn't help myself on account of my having been brainwashed by this propagandic televisual feast nonsense for 23 years of "growing up" (if you can call it that) in Scotland...

 

https://player.stv.t...-the-high-road/

 

Pip.

 

First of all, thanks for the classy post earlier Pip. I appreciate that you at least offered an "olive branch" to me.

 

Second, no I'm NOT a troll. I've been a huge Gibson fan ever since I first saw Ace Frehley make his guitar billow smoke in 1977. Most of my influences were/are Gibson players (Page, Frehley, Zappa, Rhoads, Slash, Lifeson, Bonamassa, etc). I simply voice my criticisms because I DO care. I WANT to see Gibson succeed. I'm just offering my perspective on things. Sure, we can sit around here and talk about how awesome Gibson is but I find it more interesting and engaging to discuss areas where we think Gibson can get better, without others feeling the need to rush to Gibson's defense.

 

My thread on Epiphone wasn't meant as a criticism of Gibson, or a slam on the Epiphone name. I was simply making a suggestion as to how Gibson might strengthen their brand and sell more guitars, while at the same time cutting down on the "Chibson" issue they are dealing with. A radical suggestion, yes I know. But I thought it'd be interesting to contemplate it. I DO happen to believe the reason so many people buy "Chibson" is because they want the Gibson name on the headstock but don't want to pay the premium prices. Going to an all Gibson brand, even on the budget models, could help Gibson fight that battle. Other guitar manufacturers do it (Gretsch) with great success. Why NOT Gibson?

 

The thread regarding the Tribute line WAS meant as a criticism because I believe it's warranted. If you disagree, fine. I have no problem with opposing views at all. That's what sparks healthy debate. However that doesn't make me narcissistic or honestly believe they are going to listen to anything I have to say. It's just me voicing an opinion. I just think it's inexcusable for Gibson to release a 1000.00 plus Les Paul model while eliminating features like trapezoid inlay, pick up covers, even removing binding on a guitar that costs over a grand seems petty as hell to me. Especially when you consider those features are found on their Epis that cost 1/3 of the price of these guitars.

 

Anyway, sorry if I rubbed anyone the wrong way. It wasn't my intention. I won't apologize for my thoughts on these matters. Disagree if you must. But just know that no I'm not a troll or a closet Gibson hater. It's quite the opposite.

[Eracer_Team]

I WANT to see Gibson succeed.

 

while at the same time cutting down on the "Chibson" issue they are dealing with.

 

 

Gibson was fine before Henry started buying all the money loosing audio companies.

 

Ditch them Gibson will be fine again

They're in credit protection not receivership.

 

As for Chibson

Best way to fight them is keep Gibson in USA, and subdivision in alternate markets.

 

By Gibson making a Chibson they would never be able to say: it's a fake as it was built offshore.

[brad1]

"I was simply making a suggestion as to how Gibson might strengthen their brand and sell more guitars, while at the same time cutting down on the "Chibson" issue they are dealing with. A radical suggestion, yes I know."

 

And we are simply telling you that we think you are wrong.

It wouldn't strengthen anything. They wouldn't sell more guitars. And Gibson does not care about the chibsons.

You seem to think that there are millions of people buying these cheap fakes. What makes you think that? I don't think there is.

If anything, these cheap Chinese fakes will help Gibson sell more guitars. People will realize they get what they pay for.

 

And there is nothing at all "radical" about what you are saying. I've read dozens of posts over the past 13 years that

have said the exact same thing. Nothing new here.

 

But you're not a troll....of course not.....

[Wmachine]

And please explain to me how an Epi

headstock is ugly.

Looks fine to me.

This is a forum phenomenon. If you don't like something, it is wrong, ugly, stupid, horrific, idiotic, etc. Get it? That's the product of egocentric thinking that social media encourages. Now get with the program! If you can't, that makes two of us.

[BenderOfStrings]

This is a forum phenomenon. If you don't like something, it is wrong, ugly, stupid, horrific, idiotic, etc. Get it? That's the product of egocentric thinking that social media encourages. Now get with the program! If you can't, that makes two of us.

 

Or, you know, it could just be someone's opinion.

[merciful-evans]

I think that if the Epi headstocks had always been on Gibsons, and that if the Gibson headstocks had always been on Epis, the hate would be for the (actual) Gibson headstock.

 

Its a quality perception issue that has leached into aesthetic perception.

 

I say this because no one ever criticised Epi headstocks before Gibson made a 'budget brand' out of them. Before '57 Epis were American and greatly respected.

['Scales]

I think that if the Epi headstocks had always been on Gibsons, and that if the Gibson headstocks had always been on Epis, the hate would be for the (actual) Gibson headstock.

 

Its a quality perception issue that has leached into aesthetic perception.

 

I say this because no one ever criticised Epi headstocks before Gibson made a 'budget brand' out of them. Before '57 Epis were American and greatly respected.

 

My 1969 Epiphone has the Batwing headstock, and I don't know if it's ugly, but it's certainly different!

Building on what ME said, after taking over Epi Gibson spent the whole of the 60's aligning an Epi range petty much directly against the Gibson line-up. Direct competition with the same pricing but (I assume) via different dealer networks. The Gibsons sold more because it was always the bigger brand (maybe Ford v Mercury is an equivilent?) but the quality of material and manufacture was identical out of the same premises in Kalamazoo.

 

The shapes could be the same (my 61 Melody Maker looks just like an Epi Olympic Special) or quite different (my 69 Olympic/Coronet looks nothing like an SG) but either way they were basically the same range of guitars in 2 line-ups. Quite interesting info available on this on the net. They took Epiphone off shore as a budget brand in the 70's, I'm not sure why but assume to counter the growth of cheap Japanese imports?

[american cheez]

They get the runs for a day or two

 

i dont care what anyone says, that was funny, thanks for the laugh.

 

 

I think that if the Epi headstocks had always been on Gibsons, and that if the Gibson headstocks had always been on Epis, the hate would be for the (actual) Gibson headstock.

 

Its a quality perception issue that has leached into aesthetic perception.

 

I say this because no one ever criticised Epi headstocks before Gibson made a 'budget brand' out of them. Before '57 Epis were American and greatly respected.

 

i disagree. maybe it's just me, but i really like the small strat headstock, but HATE the flaccid looking tele headstock.

['Scales]

They get the runs for a day or two

 

 

Damn it, Pip took the high road!

 

What else could he do?, given the other road was already 'occupied'.

[Cougar]

....Beginning to intermediate guitarists do not care about that Gibson headstock, flamed maple top, etc....

Well, the headstock, apparently not; but the flamed maple top? I kinda go for those, and Epiphone's got some entries....

 

[Larsongs]

Gibson are USA made guitars. Epi are not. They used to be American made but Gibson bought 'em and farmed them to the Far East. They have some similar models and look close but an Epi is just that, an Epi and not a Gibson.

 

+1

 

99.9999% of all Gretsch's are foreign made. Not built in the USA.

 

A Gibson is a Built In The USA Guitar. Therefore it's a Gibson.

 

An Epiphone, while there are some very good ones, aren't. They are for the most part entry & moderate level versions of their USA Counterparts. Some are very good. Epiphone a very respected & worthy name.

 

No need to dilute the Gibson Brand name or the Epiphone name.

 

As for Fender, I see it as big Negative. You don't know what you're getting... Could be anything? Big Negative IMO....

[Big Bill]

What else could he do?, given the other road was already 'occupied'.

I was hogging it wasnt I?

[BenderOfStrings]

+1

 

99.9999% of all Gretsch's are foreign made. Not built in the USA.

 

A Gibson is a Built In The USA Guitar. Therefore it's a Gibson.

 

An Epiphone, while there are some very good ones, aren't. They are for the most part entry & moderate level versions of their USA Counterparts. Some are very good. Epiphone a very respected & worthy name.

 

No need to dilute the Gibson Brand name or the Epiphone name.

 

As for Fender, I see it as big Negative. You don't know what you're getting... Could be anything? Big Negative IMO....

 

I don't think "Made in the USA" carries the same clout that it used to, honestly. The QC for overseas built guitars has gotten much, much better. I can tell you the Japanese-built Gretsch and Ibanez guitars, for example are are way better built than almost any USA made guitar. Besides, other than maybe the custom shop stuff that's priced out of everyone's range except doctors and lawyers, building these guitars have become such a highly automated process, I don't think it really matters whether it's USA made or Korean made or Japanese made in the eyes of the average player anymore.

[pippy]

...sorry if I rubbed anyone the wrong way. It wasn't my intention. I won't apologize for my thoughts on these matters. Disagree if you must. But just know that no I'm not a troll or a closet Gibson hater. It's quite the opposite...

Thanks for the above post, BOS, and the clarification contained within it. I trust you carry on here and have a pleasant time once you get a handle on our various foibles and peculiarities...

 

I don't think "Made in the USA" carries the same clout that it used to, honestly. The QC for overseas built guitars has gotten much, much better.......Besides, other than maybe the custom shop stuff that's priced out of everyone's range except doctors and lawyers, building these guitars have become such a highly automated process, I don't think it really matters whether it's USA made or Korean made or Japanese made in the eyes of the average player anymore.

Hailing (as I do) from the UK I've never been blinkered by the notion that it's necessary to buy products made in the USA in order to obtain quality merchandise. Currently I own guitars crafted by nine different manufacturers based in seven different countries on three different continents so have clearly put myself around quite a bit but I will say this;

The Epi Les Paul Standard I owned was a great guitar but not quite in the same league as...

The pair of USA-line Les Paul 1960 Classics I currently own which are superb guitars although not on the same level as...

The brace of Custom Shop Les Paul Standard Re-Issues I also have which are, quite simply, the best guitars I've ever handled in terms of quality of build, handling and tone.

 

I'm not going to claim the above is definitive proof of anything at all, of course, but it certainly makes me think there really might be something to the old 'You Get What You Pay For' adage.

 

Pip.

 

EDIT : I'm neither a Doctor nor a Lawyer so please don't come to me asking for advice on either topic.....because I just might give you some.

[Cougar]

I don't think "Made in the USA" carries the same clout that it used to, honestly. The QC for overseas built guitars has gotten much, much better.

Yes, Chinese made Epiphones are quite well made. But honestly, I don't think that makes any difference to the clout that Made in USA guitars continue to have.

 

I can tell you the Japanese-built Gretsch and Ibanez guitars, for example are way better built than almost any USA made guitar.

OK, that sounds like a bash, Bender. Sounds like you're saying you'd prefer an Ibanez over a Gibson? Maybe you're just in the wrong forum?