Should Gibson drop the Epiphone name?

['Scales]

Absolutely the quality of Asian made guitars has improved, and in the case of Japan is excellent (for decades now). I'd need someone to really prove to me how my Aria isn't as good as a US Strat and I'm not a serious player by any stretch, whereas the other guitarist in my band is a fantastic player and plays a high end Ibanez and has no interest in playing anything other than Ibanez.

 

...but, unlike clean drinking water, life saving medicine, or even toilet paper, guitars are a 'want' not a 'need' and for the foreseeable future I'd reckon the vast majority of Gibson or Fender (or Martin, PRS or anything else of American heritage) would 'want' a USA made version of their guitar if possible.

 

Edit: I'm neither doctor or lawyer but could buy CS guitars if I desired, and lots of people here have more than 1 US Gibson and therefore could have instead had a CS - these stereotypes are pretty tired and smack of jealousy a bit.

[Pinch]

I honestly don't see how you could possibly "devalue" the Gibson name anymore than it already has been. Outside of the VERY dedicated Gibson fan, the perception of Gibson as a brand is not very positive. They're seen as a bloated, hubris company with poor quality control and overpriced products. Now with the well documented financial problems that Gibson is facing as a company, it only compounds the negative image Gibson already has. Frankly some of you sound like you've been existing in a very small echo chamber and don't realize just how tarnished Gibson's name and reputation has become.

 

I know a lot of people talk **** about Gibson, and I certainly question business decisions and Aquarium Vomit 'bursts, but I can't get a Gibson LP or Gibson Flying V tone from another brand. In my experience, there's no substitute.

 

Personally I love my Epi LP too, but the bad fretwire means I won't chance another Epi ever again. It does seem to be just me, though, but, no.

 

Personally, I don't think selling Chinese-made guitars under the Gibson name would do the brand any good IMHO. In my opinion, the only way to save the brand is more reasonable prices and fewer insane projects like the "Modern V".

 

I suppose they took a wild chance on the original V design too, but I'm assuming they weren’t filing for bankruptcy back then.

 

But that's just me. And it's always good to have new members post!

[01GT eibach]

I'm just happy that we have an interesting post to participate in!

I agree with this -- Clearly, we all love our Gibsons, and I love seeing pics and videos of other people's guitars.

[Larsongs]

I know a lot of people talk **** about Gibson, and I certainly question business decisions and Aquarium Vomit 'bursts, but I can't get a Gibson LP or Gibson Flying V tone from another brand. In my experience, there's no substitute.

 

Personally I love my Epi LP too, but the bad fretwire means I won't chance another Epi ever again. It does seem to be just me, though, but, no.

 

Personally, I don't think selling Chinese-made guitars under the Gibson name would do the brand any good IMHO. In my opinion, the only way to save the brand is more reasonable prices and fewer insane projects like the "Modern V".

 

I suppose they took a wild chance on the original V design too, but I'm assuming they weren’t filing for bankruptcy back then.

 

But that's just me. And it's always good to have new members post!

 

I agree they did some Guitars that didn't appeal to Guitarists. But that's a chance you take when you try to progress. But, Guitars aren't what hurt Gibson. It's all the other Business' they bought & did little or nothing with to make money. And then there's Lifestyle Brand thing or whatever Henry called it.........

[Eracer_Team]

 

but I'm assuming they weren’t filing for bankruptcy back then.

 

 

 

 

Psst

Its "credit protection " , not bankruptcy yet

 

Don't see any liquidation sales do we?

[mihcmac]

Epiphone is doing just fine on its own. There are a lot of unique Epiphone designs that hold their own like the Sheridan, Casino, Broadway, Emperor, Riviera, Coronet, Wilshire, Crestwood, Del Rey, Genesis and Wildkat to name a few. If Epiphone did not make licensed Gibson models, someone else would, which is what happened in the lawsuit days. Like when Aria made their LP Pro version that was touted as being way better than a Gibson LP. So anyway, as long as there is a market for lower priced Gibson models why shouldn't Gibson get a piece of the action through Epiphone? Who's original business plan, when Gibson bought Epiphone, was to provide lower priced quality guitars for Gibson vendors.....

[glp2012]

I don't think Gibson should drop the Epiphone brand. As a matter of fact, I think they should start another one called Maestro by Gibson...

 

Support your local music shop and "Make Gibson Great Again."

[badbluesplayer]

Gibson's first priority needs to be keeping things on an even keel as much as possible. There's no real upside to disrupting the branding structure. Repeat. There is no upside to disrupting the branding structure.

 

No charge.

[Big Bill]

OMG! The damn thing is dead!

 

[Lord Summerisle]

I don't think Gibson should drop the Epiphone name, but I think they should do what Fender has done and be brave enough to slap their primary name (Gibson) on guitars across the range. Yes, I know Fender has Squier, but increasingly that has been used for the lowest-priced guitars, and also specialty items like the popular Classic Vibe models, and other quirky stuff. Fender has been more than happy to stick "Fender" on $500 Mexican Stats and Teles for decades now, and, in recent years, has broadened this out to Chinese-made guitars, too.

 

In short, use the Epiphone name for Casinos, etc. Anything that sells because it's an Epiphone. And occasional oddball offerings. For everything else, especially the current Epiphone versions of Gibson's classic models, just use Gibson. They can still make them in the factory they own in Qingdao, all that would need to change is the headstock shape and the logo.

 

Fender learned to maximize the value in their name. Customers who wanted American-made Fenders didn't stop buying those in favor of cheaper, Mexican-made models just because the Mexican guitars were available. The Mexican-made Fenders just opened up the possibility of owning a Fender to a different consumer.

 

If Gibson slaps "Gibson" on a $700 Chinese-made Les Paul, people looking for a Custom Shop Gibson or an American-made LP Standard won't buy it. Other people, liking the idea of having a Gibson Les Paul at that price, will.

 

Guitar forums are populated by, well, guitar enthusiasts. If decisions about brand management were principally made with that audience solely in mind, well...guitar companies would have good reason to worry about their balance sheets.

 

I often look at the problem this way: it took General Motors a very long time to get away from Ponitac, Oldsmobile, and all the rest, even though all of their brands shared common platforms! As I understand it, they're now down to Chevrolet, Buick, and Cadillac. Frankly (even though I own one and love it), I don't think the Buick marque is going to be hanging around much longer, at least not in the US. The draw is in recognizing and trusting the brand, and for GM it seems that "Chevrolet" is entirely good enough for that purpose. For Gibson, their chief asset is their primary name. In their position, I'd be inclined to use it whenever and wherever possible...

[Big Bill]

[kidblast]

point

 

set

 

match

 

-- beer --

[mihcmac]

You get what you pay for.... No point beating a dead horse...

[rct]

Psst

Its "credit protection " , not bankruptcy yet

 

Don't see any liquidation sales do we?

 

Do you believe that without liquidation sales there is no bankruptcy?

 

rct

[kidblast]

I'm in! Deal em tex!

[Pinch]

I agree they did some Guitars that didn't appeal to Guitarists. But that's a chance you take when you try to progress. But, Guitars aren't what hurt Gibson. It's all the other Business' they bought & did little or nothing with to make money. And then there's Lifestyle Brand thing or whatever Henry called it.........

 

Yeah. Me personally, I thought, how the hell are they gonna sell that when the Jackson V already exists? I just don't see it happening.

 

Didn't understand the lifestyle brand thing at all. These are expensive to ridiculously expensive guitars (although the best guitars there are IMHO).

 

You're not gonna get kids to buy Gibson sneakers, or whatever constitutes a lifestyle these days.

 

I do believe they would do better with a slight reduction in prices. There's a reason guitar shops don't flog as many Gibsons as they need to accommodate new Gibsons every year. Maybe part of it is the current music climate, but every generation that gets older blames the current music climate for EVERYTHING. I think it's safe to say there will always be guitar companies making a healthy profit.

 

But that's just my opinion. However, I think maybe they've listened to too many people who don't play guitar themselves. It's just a feeling I get.

[rct]

rct did you see Dickey Betts fell at his house and is had surgery on his brain.

 

When you leave your run down falling apart ugly, crappy east coast area home and go out west and live in the sound of nothing and the smell of sage and dust and the warmth of sunrise and sunset, with no internet, no phone, no tv, you really get in touch with yourself. It happens to both of us every single time.

 

By September 8th when we got to Yellowstone first hotel, we had not had any connection for at least a week.

 

I started dreaming, as usual. Long, intense, vivid dreams. No job, no bills, no thoughts of anything but what we are seeing and hearing and breathing. We also spend most overnights out in the valleys, trying to record the wolves packing up or the bison chattering to each other, walking by about three feet from me, stopping to sniff this thing sitting in the dark that is no threat.

 

It's awesome.

 

So September 8th Saturday night into September 9th Sunday, we slept from 9pm to about 2.30am so we could get out well before dawn.

And man, did I dream of Dickey. It seemed an hour long. Pictures of him I hadn't seen in decades, him with his black tele, with CLF on the heel, a true Leo guitar that Bill Carson helped teenage Dickey get. His dad played fiddle and sometimes sat in with Bob Wills, so he knew Bill a little. Old super 8 movies of Dickey and his dad played through this dream, I haven't seen them films in 40 years or so. One of Dickey in the driveway, flogging at one of his old Martins, Berry Oakley sitting on the ground drinking a beer in the background. Young Dickey, always with a Bud tall boy and a Marlbl, all tats and guitars. Crazy stuff.

 

So I woke up that Sunday convinced he had died. We didn't get to any internet for another 8 or 9 days, and no tv at all. No phone service either. When we got to Denver and got some internets I found he had not died. But I figured something must be up. He had a stroke earlier this year, and that is just not ever easy, we've lived through that with family.

 

So I'm not surprised. I'm back in the sh1t now, back to life, consumed with trying to retire, get us out of here, get through this stupid job and get it over with. For a short time there, too short, and not often enough, I was in touch, I was "there" again, and it felt good even though it felt sad. I really hope he just goes fishing and golfing, even though he doesn't golf much. He does fish though, tarpon and other big ocean fish.

 

He killed a deer with a boy scout pocket knife. True story. It was one of the first things I asked Butch Trucks in the old AOL days when I got hooked up with him. He swore it happened.

 

I hope he recovers and lives a long time in rest and some peace for a while. I was looking forward to getting to see him once in a while when we move to Florida.

 

"Intonation? That's for pu$$ies". LOL what a guy.

 

rct

[rct]

[laugh] [laugh]

 

rct

[mihcmac]

I hope he recovers and lives a long time in rest and some peace for a while. I was looking forward to getting to see him once in a while when we move to Florida.

 

"Intonation? That's for pu$ies". LOL what a guy.

 

rct

It seems most of the places people select to retire are getting hit with unusually bad weather. I live on an active volcano that occasionally gets hit by hurricanes, but that's island life..... A lot of people from the east have settled in the west Phoenix area only to find it was too hot and resettled in the surrounding mountain towns. I hope you have good luck in Florida.......

[rct]

It seems most of the places people select to retire are getting hit with unusually bad weather. I live on an active volcano that occasionally gets hit by hurricanes, but that's island life..... A lot of people from the east have settled in the west Phoenix area only to find it was too hot and resettled in the surrounding mountain towns. I hope you have good luck in Florida.......

 

Thank You!

 

rct

[Big Bill]

Thank You!

 

rct

 

You're a Jersey Refugee now?

[rct]

You're a Jersey Refugee now?

 

No man. Another year.

 

rct

[mihcmac]

Thank You!

 

rct

Remember to enjoy every day no matter where you are..

 

I spend as much time as possible playing outdoors with my battery amps....

 

 

[Big Bill]

That is a probably one of the nicest Epi Lesters I have seen.

[mihcmac]

WTF I don't know what to say. That is sweet.

That is a probably one of the nicest Epi Lesters I have seen.

A lot of my friends, here on the island, live off the grid and love live entertainment so I evolved into using 6 Roland Cubes chained together. Creating a mini wall of sound... I also have a 1/2 stack and a F Deluxe. I play my Cubes more than anything else since its easy to have some in my small car, I can Jam anywhere I want. With 6 chained I can hit small club volume.....

 

I have always had a sweet spot for Epi's, my first decent guitar was a 63 Coronet. This is an Epi 56 Les Paul Standard Pro that weighs almost 10 lbs and has the C profile fat neck, not to be confused with the 56 goldtop, it does also come in a goldtop. I installed a Duesenberg Les Trem II and a roller bridge. It plays like a dream and stays in tune... An upper end China guitar.....