Gibson Brands Forums: When Dawn Breaks.. - Gibson Brands Forums

Jump to content

  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

When Dawn Breaks.. Warning: Collings Waterloo Content

#1 User is offline   BluesKing777 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 8068
  • Joined: 20-February 11

Posted 04 October 2018 - 06:53 PM

When dawn breaks it is...ha ha...Sunrise!


New Sunrise pickup in the house! \:D/ \:D/ \:D/



Did I get any sleep since it arrived a day and a half early? Thanks Fedex! I called my luthier about 2 minutes after it turned up and asked him to put a guitar plug on it to dangle down the front so I can try it in a few guitars. Back in half hour, plugged her in and away we go! \:D/


Here is a short track with the Sunrise in preamp and EQ box and K&K/Tonedexter mixed together. ( A lot of people run dual systems with Sunrise and K&K.)



https://soundcloud.c...wlsunrisetd777b






Posted Image





BluesKing777.
0

#2 User is offline   sbpark 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 990
  • Joined: 09-January 14

Posted 04 October 2018 - 07:18 PM

Can you tell us a little about how the Sunrise compares/contrasts to an M80? I actually have one of the the super old M1's (passive) and can get it to sound pretty decent, and kind of prefer it over the M80 in some cases, although I'm not a big fan of magnetic soundhole pickups to begin with.

Two of my favorite singer/songwriters Jeff Tweedy and Gregory Alan Isakov (I'm seeing both this weekend, btw, Tweedy tomorrow and Isakov on Saturday!) use Sunrise pickups. I think Tweedy uses it as part of a dual source and I think Isakov uses it by itself.

This post has been edited by sbpark: 04 October 2018 - 07:20 PM

0

#3 User is offline   BluesKing777 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 8068
  • Joined: 20-February 11

Posted 04 October 2018 - 07:32 PM

View Postsbpark, on 04 October 2018 - 07:18 PM, said:

Can you tell us a little about how the Sunrise compares/contrasts to an M80? I actually have one of the the super old M1's (passive) and can get it to sound pretty decent, and kind of prefer it over the M80 in some cases, although I'm not a big fan of magnetic soundhole pickups to begin with.

Two of my favorite singer/songwriters Jeff Tweedy and Gregory Alan Isakov (I'm seeing both this weekend, btw, Tweedy tomorrow and Isakov on Saturday!) use Sunrise pickups. I think Tweedy uses it as part of a dual source and I think Isakov uses it by itself.



I havenít had the Sunrise long enough to give a fair comparison, still tweaking! But I already love it.

Please report back about Tweedy and Isakov in regard to their pickups and guitars. (I have seen a video with Tweedy looking like he bought the whole Waterloo factory.)


BluesKing777.
0

#4 User is offline   Cougar 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 3150
  • Joined: 14-December 12
  • LocationThe Wild West

Posted 04 October 2018 - 07:48 PM

View PostBluesKing777, on 04 October 2018 - 06:53 PM, said:

Here is a short track with the Sunrise in preamp and EQ box and K&K/Tonedexter mixed together.

Super sweet playing there, BK!

  • 2018 Gibson Songwriter Deluxe 12-string rosewood burst
  • 2011 Guild F50R burst
  • 2002 Guild JF30-12 burst
  • 2014 Martin GPC12PA4 12-string
  • 2012 Epiphone Lennon EJ-160E VS
  • 1972 Epiphone FT-160 12-string burst
  • 2012 Epiphone Dot trans cherry
  • 2010 Epiphone Les Paul Standard trans amber
  • Yamaha Motif XS7
0

#5 User is offline   sbpark 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 990
  • Joined: 09-January 14

Posted 04 October 2018 - 07:58 PM

View PostBluesKing777, on 04 October 2018 - 07:32 PM, said:

I havenít had the Sunrise long enough to give a fair comparison, still tweaking! But I already love it.

Please report back about Tweedy and Isakov in regard to their pickups and guitars. (I have seen a video with Tweedy looking like he bought the whole Waterloo factory.)


BluesKing777.


I've seen both artists several times. This will be my third time seeing Isakov (the two previous times were incredible), and have seen Jeff Tweedy solo twice (this will be number 3), seen him with his band with his son called "Tweedy"(was really impressed, and his son is a really, really good drummer), and lost count how many times I've seen Wilco!

When I've seen him solo, Jeff Tweedy seemed to mostly play a 0-18, but that was before he got all those Waterloos. Last time I saw Wilco they did 5 shows at the Fillmore in SF, and I was at three of those shows. For those shows he mostly went back and forth between two ladder braced Waterloo WL-14's, one black, one sunburst and neither were plugged in. For that last tour they were playing through small amps, mic'ing acoustics, and John Stirratt was playing through a B15. He also opened the show playing an old Hummingbird. Before the Waterloos he was playing a couple of 1930's Kel Kroydons with the birds painted on them. Long ago he mostly played a J45. I think he also used to play Breedlove acoustics. Even though he has that Martin signature model, I've never seen him play that guitar live. Seems like he's really liking his 0-18 these days. Apparently that guitar has been on every Wilco record. He has a book coming out the second week in November where I think he talks about that 1930's 0-18..

Both times I say Gregory Alan Isakov he played his J50 95% of the time. He also played some sort of arch top for a song or two if I remember correctly.
0

#6 User is offline   BluesKing777 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 8068
  • Joined: 20-February 11

Posted 05 October 2018 - 02:02 AM

Mucking around more with the pickup....it has just occurred to me that I have wasted my money on all the other pickups I have ever bought! [unsure]


Here it is in my 93 Lowden LSE1 direct to Sunrise pre then Fishman Pro EQ and a smish of reverb from my mixer., and a few fairly famous riffs fingerpicked:




https://soundcloud.c...-3/amsunrise777




BluesKing777.

This post has been edited by BluesKing777: 05 October 2018 - 02:56 AM

0

#7 User is offline   dhanners623 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 1163
  • Joined: 22-February 10

Posted 05 October 2018 - 04:51 AM

Sounds really good. Clear, yet it growls when it needs to.
Check out my latest record, There Are No Secrets in This Town, by going to https://davidhannersmusic.com. Thanks!
0

#8 User is offline   sbpark 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 990
  • Joined: 09-January 14

Posted 05 October 2018 - 07:49 AM

View PostBluesKing777, on 05 October 2018 - 02:02 AM, said:

Mucking around more with the pickup....it has just occurred to me that I have wasted my money on all the other pickups I have ever bought! [unsure]


Here it is in my 93 Lowden LSE1 direct to Sunrise pre then Fishman Pro EQ and a smish of reverb from my mixer., and a few fairly famous riffs fingerpicked:




https://soundcloud.c...-3/amsunrise777




BluesKing777.


Which model Sunrise do you have? I've heard they are ridiculously heavy compared to other MSP's. How does it affect the acoustic sound of the pickup if at all?
0

#9 User is offline   BluesKing777 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 8068
  • Joined: 20-February 11

Posted 05 October 2018 - 08:43 AM

View Postsbpark, on 05 October 2018 - 07:49 AM, said:

Which model Sunrise do you have? I've heard they are ridiculously heavy compared to other MSP's. How does it affect the acoustic sound of the pickup if at all?



My model is the Sunrise S2. All the pickups are the same but come with different wiring. S2 comes with an installation kit. S1LW.....With a long wire (LW). S1LW...with a long wire and a jack to hang out the soundhole.

I had a jack attached to the short lead, so I can try the pickup in various guitars. I usually remove soundhole pickups when finished playing as I use the Humidipak in the soundhole.

Heavy? Could have an effect - I have read that. But to me, it is all worth it...I love the sound I am getting through the Sunrise buffer preamp plus my Fishman Pro EQ. The famous users have the Sunrise tube preamp. I am not interested.


BluesKing777.
1

#10 User is offline   sbpark 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 990
  • Joined: 09-January 14

Posted 06 October 2018 - 03:48 AM

View PostBluesKing777, on 04 October 2018 - 07:32 PM, said:

I haven’t had the Sunrise long enough to give a fair comparison, still tweaking! But I already love it.

Please report back about Tweedy and Isakov in regard to their pickups and guitars. (I have seen a video with Tweedy looking like he bought the whole Waterloo factory.)


BluesKing777.


Saw Tweedy tonight at the Fillmore in San Francisco. Great show. Although I previously called it a 0-18, the guitar he played for every song but one looks like a 00-18, not a 0-18. He played a J45 for one song during the encore (Acuff-Rose) and it was in an open tuning, possibly DADGAD.

Both guitars had sunrise mag pickups in them, no idea if there was something else in each guitar/running a dual source system. He does have what looks like a small preamp thats mounted right by the endpin, and the guitar was also mic'd with some sort of Shure KSM mic, either a KSM32 or KSM44A.

I couldn't get very clear pics because I was pretty far away, up in the balcony on the side.

Posted Image

Posted Image

This post has been edited by sbpark: 06 October 2018 - 03:56 AM

0

#11 User is offline   BluesKing777 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 8068
  • Joined: 20-February 11

Posted 06 October 2018 - 04:27 AM

Looks good to me, and I am glad you enjoyed the show!


I would assume that it sounded superb overall, but what did the pickups sound like up loud?


BluesKing777.
0

#12 User is offline   PatriotsBiker 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 302
  • Joined: 17-September 11

Posted 06 October 2018 - 10:02 AM

BK, you could use any pickup there is and it will sound sweet. Sounds like you have a good one there, though.

Just curious on the EQ and the tone as to how much you lopped off the upper mids verses how much of that is the pickup?

I don't blame you for no additional pre-amp. Most of our interfaces come with them already and many affordable options don't let one bypass. It becomes a series of stacking pre-amps and 2k to 5k gets overloaded. My interface likes to brighten up the mids on top of that. It's a constant battle.

PB
2018 - Gibson SJ-200 Standard
2018 - Gibson Hummingbird Standard
2015 - Taylor 614CE
2013 - Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro(59)
2014 - Epiphone Black Royale P93
2015 - Epiphone ES335 Custom
2005 - Epiphone Les Paul Custom (MIK)
2008 - Fender Tele (MIM) - Modded to Keefocaster
2011 - Fender USA Strat Standard
2012 - Fender USA Telecaster
2009 - PRS SE Paul Allender
2007 - Gretsch 5120 Electromatic
2016 - Fender Jazz Bass (MIM)
Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue
Jet City Amps 20W JCA2112RC
0

#13 User is offline   sbpark 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 990
  • Joined: 09-January 14

Posted 06 October 2018 - 10:36 AM

View PostBluesKing777, on 06 October 2018 - 04:27 AM, said:

Looks good to me, and I am glad you enjoyed the show!


I would assume that it sounded superb overall, but what did the pickups sound like up loud?


BluesKing777.


Interesting you ask, and this may sound strange, but given it was just him and a guitar, I think it was actually a combination of the plugged in signal, the mic and just the unamplified acoustic guitar sound itself. It wasn't a very loud show.

I[ve seen Jeff Tweedy in the past and sometimes it's sounded more magnetic sound hole pickup, other times more natural. This time around it sounded a bit more on the natural side to me.

This post has been edited by sbpark: 06 October 2018 - 10:37 AM

0

#14 User is offline   BluesKing777 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 8068
  • Joined: 20-February 11

Posted 06 October 2018 - 05:20 PM

View PostPatriotsBiker, on 06 October 2018 - 10:02 AM, said:

BK, you could use any pickup there is and it will sound sweet. Sounds like you have a good one there, though.

Just curious on the EQ and the tone as to how much you lopped off the upper mids verses how much of that is the pickup?

I don't blame you for no additional pre-amp. Most of our interfaces come with them already and many affordable options don't let one bypass. It becomes a series of stacking pre-amps and 2k to 5k gets overloaded. My interface likes to brighten up the mids on top of that. It's a constant battle.

PB




This is important to mention: After mucking around with the Baggs M80 and M1A and liking them better with the high e and b string poles taken out, first thing I did after hearing the Sunrise when I plugged it in was to take both those poles out to see what happens. I couldn't get much from the 1st string then, so put just the 1st string pole back in but wound right down. Works good on most of my guitars that I tried...not always. They do need individual attention. [mellow]

It is hard to put words on what the Sunrise buffer box does, except the usual 'it has magic in there'. Fabulous.


Then for the EQ, I used exactly the same settings as I do for my Baggs M1A in my old Fishman Pro EQ. (Swept the mids and removed a 'honk', dropped the bass a bit, dropped the treble a bit, and took off 'brilliant' a fair bit. <_<


Posted Image




I also have the Baggs Align EQ but preferred the old Fish. (I am finding the EQ knobs a bit small, but will work on it more.): This is not on the recordings above but here is a pic



Posted Image




More news about soundholes - the Sunrise doesn't fit easily in my Martin OMs or even my Cargill Custom 00. When I say easy, I mean leave the guitar tuned and slot the pickup in and play.......




BluesKing777.
0

#15 User is offline   BluesKing777 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 8068
  • Joined: 20-February 11

Posted 06 October 2018 - 07:27 PM

Wow, my big Lowden O22 sounds superb with the Sunrise in it!

DADGAD and a splash of reverb, just sensational... I may have to buy another and install it permanently, it is that good in a bigger guitar.

I know most here couldnít give a ratz clack, but I mention it because a Sunrise could be just the ticket for SJ200 owners and even big Guilds.



BluesKing777.
0

#16 User is offline   PatriotsBiker 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 302
  • Joined: 17-September 11

Posted 07 October 2018 - 08:40 AM

Very interesting. Thanks for sharing all the detail. That mid-sweep and adjust capability on fishman EQs is a good thing. I've tried in on a built-in electronics before and liked it.

I think I have a sense of what all the Sunrise Buffer does after doing some exploring. In the end, it's like the noise-floor goes away. I'm gonna explore the Radial site to see if they have something that does similar.

Also, I agree about the small knobs on the Session EQ. I've not gotten the feel for them.
2018 - Gibson SJ-200 Standard
2018 - Gibson Hummingbird Standard
2015 - Taylor 614CE
2013 - Gibson Les Paul Traditional Pro(59)
2014 - Epiphone Black Royale P93
2015 - Epiphone ES335 Custom
2005 - Epiphone Les Paul Custom (MIK)
2008 - Fender Tele (MIM) - Modded to Keefocaster
2011 - Fender USA Strat Standard
2012 - Fender USA Telecaster
2009 - PRS SE Paul Allender
2007 - Gretsch 5120 Electromatic
2016 - Fender Jazz Bass (MIM)
Fender Blues Deluxe Reissue
Jet City Amps 20W JCA2112RC
0

#17 User is offline   sbpark 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 990
  • Joined: 09-January 14

Posted 07 October 2018 - 09:05 AM

BluesKing777-

Saw Gregory Alan Isakov at the Great American Music Hall in San Francisco last night. He, as before when I saw him went back and forth between his J50 and some sort of Gibson archtop. Still has the Sunrise in his J50, and to my ear his sound sounded like all Sunrise pickup. I dont think he was running a dual source, just straight pickup. It sounded good, but didnt really sound very "acoustic", but still sounded good, compared to tweedy the night before who Had a little better acoustic sound with a Sunrise and some other type of pickup in his guitars, combined with an external mic.

I should add that the band that opened for Isakov was an acoustic duo called "Oh Pep!" Not really my thing, but they sounded good (we could their last few songs), and the singers acoustic guitar sounded AMAZING. I mean, it sounded like an actual acoustic guitar coming through the mains. I asked her after their set what pickup is in what looks like some sort of 00-18 style guitar. She said it was an LR Baggs anthem! I was pretty surprised. Her sound was ridiculously natural and I haven't heard an acoustic guitar sound that good in a long time, and it was all pickup, no external mic. They're also sponsored by LR Baggs. I think it may even be an anthem SL, because I didnt notice the big, of-white control block in the sound hole that's usually a dead giveaway for the Anthem.

This post has been edited by sbpark: 07 October 2018 - 09:08 AM

0

#18 User is offline   BluesKing777 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 8068
  • Joined: 20-February 11

Posted 07 October 2018 - 05:06 PM

Glad you had a good night...


I looked at some Isakov videos on UTube and they are pretty well all acoustic recording, as you would I suppose.


While there, I looked at some Shawn Colvin vids and this one at the Joni M tribute concert has the Sunrise and its sound. I have no idea how she squeezed it in what looks like a Lowden S35. Must have removed the strings and the pickup clamps first!

https://www.youtube....h?v=lmhaP7jTU4M



But a video of Kotaro Oshio has his classic sound:

https://www.youtube....h?v=w87dLLp0egE



BluesKing777.

This post has been edited by BluesKing777: 07 October 2018 - 05:08 PM

0

#19 User is offline   BluesKing777 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 8068
  • Joined: 20-February 11

Posted 09 October 2018 - 02:14 AM

Fun, fun, fun.....


I had the Sunrise in my 59 LG3 for a couple of days and today....moved to my 52 LG1 for some slide in Open D tuning.

Somebody said years ago in a forum how good the Sunrise is for slide, and guess what?
They were right!������

I am a little bit annoyed that nobody told me about these in 1970. Rats.

PS. and my L&M mic stand fell apart! Pulled the mic on the boom arm towards me and the boom fell off. A friend gave it to me and it would have to be a relic of the 60s. Could probably get a new thread put in it..or chuck it and admit defeat. I have another exact duplicate.



BluesKing777.

This post has been edited by BluesKing777: 09 October 2018 - 02:22 AM

0

#20 User is offline   billroy 

  • Advanced Member
  • Group: All Access
  • Posts: 954
  • Joined: 30-November 17

Posted 09 October 2018 - 11:00 AM

Hey BK - Does the weight bother you at all? (I thought Jinder and other's mention it being super heavy, I love my guitar being light...). Also - is it an awesome acoustic representation of your guitar, or a really good sound through a pickup (hope that makes sense?)

Rgds - billroy
'18 Gibson J45, vintage
'86 Guild D25
'00 Fender Strat (American Standard)
'90 Fender Strat (Korea, bought in an open market in Korea... yeah it might be real)
'68 Gibson SG
'17 Several 3 String CBGs

"Want people to listen to your stuff, don't play boring stuff..." heard somewhere.
0

Share this topic:


  • (2 Pages)
  • +
  • 1
  • 2
  • You cannot start a new topic
  • You cannot reply to this topic

1 User(s) are reading this topic
0 members, 1 guests, 0 anonymous users