generaldreedle Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 So I'm posting this here as opposed to the AGF where I might get pilloried for my heresy. Anyway, I have a Martin HD 28 VTS, and a Gibson Southern Jumbo. THe Martin is by any objective measure a fantastic guitar, however, recently I saw a J200 at Guitar Center that is now almost a third off, new, and sounds fantastic. I had also been playing the Martin recently even before stupidly trying the J200 and have found that the, I don't have the right words, overtones, resonance, sustain, whatever, was too much for me. Loved the tone of the guitar, but that was getting too much. So comparing its sound to the J200 was interesting, I appreciated the J200 non sustain. Do people find that this happens a lot, and if so is it a permanent thing or does it pass? I'm particularly interested in the perspective of those who are a little older. I'm in my mid 50s and if it's that my hearing is changing then it seems permanent? Or it could just be that I'm trying to justify buying a pretty guitar!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Meat and potatoes again? It's only GADD (guitar attention deficit disorder). And it's not necessarily a bad thing. Some people do the same songs they've done since when they first picked up the guitar, instead of continuing to add to the material they do . . . just press the "play" button. A Busy Box, if you will. Regarding the M guitar, I grew weary of the heavy bass overtones (ok, mud). The final straw was temporarily bringing an Epiphone EJ-200 into the fold just as a superjumbo tryout. Hearing that inexpensive guitar next to the D-41- surely a great guitar for some applications, just not for mine. The one that caught your interest at the GC sounds like it already checks the right boxes for you. Add another arrow to your quiver? 'Will await the ngd photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 My strong preference is for a guitar with the punchy & quick decay of notes typically associated with maple bodies. Sustain is not my best friend. It may be that the J-200 you test drove is allowing you to fully hear the benefits of this type of tone. If so & you find it appealing, it seems as though you should pursue it - so sure, we'll help you spend your money! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaldreedle Posted October 21, 2018 Author Share Posted October 21, 2018 Do you guys find that this preference change is permanent? At least so far? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 The complexities of human sound preference are immense. This fact tortured me for my who career as an acoustics researcher who was trying to design speech and audio algorithms that won international subjective testing competitions. The fundamental are Much of what you hear is the result of leaning in the auditory cortex -- the sounds in your environments changes and focuses what you hear. So your hearing naturally evolves over time. In addition the learned effects, your hearing changes physically over your whole life. You immediate acoustic environment also changes what you hear. This is because the room filters the sound and your ear is basically a spectrum analyzer -- like a real world equalizer. Your immediate musically acoustic mix also masks portions of your instrument's sound in predictable ways -- critical band masking. That is basically why RW and mahogany guitars cut in burgrass bands, and maple does not. Human sound quality perception is greatly biased by what you have just heard -- immediate biasing. That is why it is so important to compare guitars nose-t-nose. Of course, you also change the way your instrument sounds because your playing naturally changes over time, and you learn and adapt. Then there is also the seven year itch -- people are always trying something new in life. The grass is always greener. You can view all this as a challenge or the spice of life. We solved the problem by accumulating a large collection of vintage instruments Lately I have been saying that all of our instruments are perfect -- just not for the same thing. I guess I clearly cannot advise you. So I'll just wish you good luck. Best, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 My tastes morph. I'd have to say they kind of meander between Martin and Gibson. Sometimes an extended period with rosewood Martins send me back to my Gibson needs... my J50 especially. Last year I ordered and received a custom D18 that will always be with me, and I love it. And 2018 seems to have been all Gibson for me... birds... an AJ for the first time... The most surprising thing to me is how floored I have been with this new to me AJ. It's all the power of a Martin rosewood Dread, but more direct, less mud. It's really something. So yeah... my tastes change. My moods change. And I doubt I'll ever be a one brand/style guy. Although gun to my head... color me Gibby. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul14 Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 I have 13 acoustic guitars, ranging from size 0 - to SJ-200. Some times my 00-15 is the guitar I can’t put down for a month. Some days it doesn’t speak to me at all. Same with all my guitars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 So I'm posting this here as opposed to the AGF where I might get pilloried for my heresy. Anyway, I have a Martin HD 28 VTS, and a Gibson Southern Jumbo. THe Martin is by any objective measure a fantastic guitar, however, recently I saw a J200 at Guitar Center that is now almost a third off, new, and sounds fantastic. I had also been playing the Martin recently even before stupidly trying the J200 and have found that the, I don't have the right words, overtones, resonance, sustain, whatever, was too much for me. Loved the tone of the guitar, but that was getting too much. So comparing its sound to the J200 was interesting, I appreciated the J200 non sustain. Do people find that this happens a lot, and if so is it a permanent thing or does it pass? I'm particularly interested in the perspective of those who are a little older. I'm in my mid 50s and if it's that my hearing is changing then it seems permanent? Or it could just be that I'm trying to justify buying a pretty guitar!! It's been said on these pages that people grow into Gibsons over time (may I add small guitars though I'm not there myself). Really don't know if there is a pattern - like fx people bein' able to buy more pricey guitars when they get older (no doubt about that). But these things are so personal and deeply rooted that only you can feel what's goin' on. That is the way it should be and don't stop reporting. Suddenly finding unexpected gold is something we all can relate to and actually dream about - it's fantastic to be 'taken', besides it's a sign of life. Be glad and bring that Jumbo home if you can. See what happens, , , how long the craze lasts. Is it real or was is a mirage. Like fallin' in love on a train, right. . When it comes to sustain, I'm not too keen on a long massive tail after each touch/hit/note. I believe a rather short descending curve is something to 'play on/with'. It offers space. All in all I tend to think the response of a guitar means more and more. How fast, how clear, how strong, how defined, , , and regarding decay. The voice of course is important, , , but so is the style of the answer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 There is never a wrong time to own an SJ200. Absolute treasures...I have loved them for as long as I can remember being aware of them, and have owned two over the last 15yrs. I can’t imagine life without the blonde SJ200 I currently own. They have all the good stuff (dynamic range, big bass, complex mids, ringing top, clarity when picked and that Gibson compression when hit hard with a pick) and none of the muddy, confused overtones and woofly bass that has always put me off Rosewood Martins. If you can afford it, buy the SJ200 and live happily ever after. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted October 21, 2018 Share Posted October 21, 2018 Absolute treasures...I have loved them for as long as I can remember being aware of them, and have owned two over the last 15yrs. I can't imagine life without the blonde SJ200 I currently own. But Jinder - am I wrong in assuming there are big differences in the power within these instruments. Have not played them all, , , but some of the Super Js I met on the way were surprisingly silent for their size where others had the might one would expect. And I don't believe we're necessarily talkin' conventional pre-Norlin-Norlin-post-Norlin here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dave F Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I’ve sold a few while in this mindset. Nowadays I try to put the one I’m thinking about moving away for a year or so then decide. This does not include ones I buy just for flipping. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I think Mick and Keef and Co wrote "Some Girls" about guitars, not women! I like to try them all, but basically when it comes down to it, it is 'any port in a storm'...... As long as it has strings and it is guitar shaped. That said, when I gave up smoking years back, I promised to myself to buy a really nice acoustic with the money I was saving to encourage me along. Ha Ha H ah Hee Hee.....One nice guitar? Ha Hee Ho I Hum Ha HA full stop. A house full Little ones to super large, resos, ladder braced, X braced, shiny, scratched, dull, split, broken, new, old, hand made, factory made, 'workshop made', custom shop, custom, customised...authentic and real.......et al. And you forumites are no help because you have talked me into some things quote Mick "I never thought I would own!" "So give me all your money, give me all your gold...." BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 Maybe we're all addicts in various stages/phases of denial, rationalization, indulgence, and joy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 ....Or it could just be that I'm trying to justify buying a pretty guitar!! There's nothing like a well-made 17" lower bout jumbo. No justification necessary! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sbpark Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I own both Gibson and Martin acoustics, and don't feel that I have to justify to anyone why I like both or why one day I'll prefer one over the other because my tastes change daily, sometimes several times a day. I started out as only a Gibson acoustic guy, but have also grown to love the sound of Martins as well. I actually have more Martins these days than I do Gibsons. My current stable includes" Gibson Advanced Jumbo Gibson J45 Martin D-35 Martin D-28 Martin Custom Shop 00-18 VTS (12 fret, slot head) I have owned two J200's and one was total garbage in the sound department, but the other was magical and I say that that's one of the few guitars I regret ever selling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoSoxBiker Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I've yet to get rid of a guitar that really excels at something. Cheapo nor expensive. My guitar related tastes expand rather than change (from one thing to another). As far as SJ-200 or no SJ-200, well, you know the direction I recently took. You know why, too. It's the same reason you started this thread. You just cannot get it out of your skin. It's a unique beast with surprisingly addictive qualities. Oooops, I'm enabling. Bad, PB!!! Bad!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 My strong preference is for a guitar with the punchy & quick decay of notes typically associated with maple bodies. Sustain is not my best friend. It may be that the J-200 you test drove is allowing you to fully hear the benefits of this type of tone. If so & you find it appealing, it seems as though you should pursue it - so sure, we'll help you spend your money! I am with you on this one. I like guitars that burst into bloom right out of the starting gate, give you one big note and the get out of the way. Dave Van Ronk, who is best know for playing a Guild, was said to have left his strings on until they reached the point they would no longer intonate to kill off sustain. But the two guitars I own the most of are Gibson and Harmony. Go figure. The thing about Harmonys is that while the better quality instruments like the Sovereigns will ring out a bit longer, they also do not have much in the way of overtones/harmonics. There is just something immediate and fundamental about them that works really well for me. Kind of a everything you need and nothing you do not thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BluesKing777 Posted October 22, 2018 Share Posted October 22, 2018 I am with you on this one. I like guitars that burst into bloom right out of the starting gate, give you one big note and the get out of the way. Dave Van Ronk, who is best know for playing a Guild, was said to have left his strings on until they reached the point they would no longer intonate to kill off sustain. But the two guitars I own the most of are Gibson and Harmony. Go figure. The thing about Harmonys is that while the better quality instruments like the Sovereigns will ring out a bit longer, they also do not have much in the way of overtones/harmonics. There is just something immediate and fundamental about them that works really well for me. Kind of a everything you need and nothing you do not thing. That is generally the sound I prefer...BUT....put that guitar in DADGAD and it will sound silly - that is when I reach for the Lowden or my Cargill with sustain to the end of time. Except that is hard work if I pull a rag or blues out of the hat while playing a Lowden - need to damp the strings all over the place - right hand damping and left hand between the notes damping, hard work. Grab the Waterloo ladder braced and hardly have to damp anything - except for stylistic purposes. But there is no middle ground. BluesKing777. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaldreedle Posted October 22, 2018 Author Share Posted October 22, 2018 That is generally the sound I prefer...BUT....put that guitar in DADGAD and it will sound silly - that is when I reach for the Lowden or my Cargill with sustain to the end of time. Except that is hard work if I pull a rag or blues out of the hat while playing a Lowden - need to damp the strings all over the place - right hand damping and left hand between the notes damping, hard work. Grab the Waterloo ladder braced and hardly have to damp anything - except for stylistic purposes. But there is no middle ground. BluesKing777. That's the issue for me too, although I think my Southern Jumbo would sound fine in DADGAD; played the J200 today and it sounded great. I have to have a one in one out policy right now for financial and other reasons- which is giving me pause, but I started strumming the J200 and that pause is going away. Hamlet on the Gibson Forum. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle fester Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 I'd say the two big changes in taste for me are 1) playing 90% acoustic... and 2) fingerpicking more times than not when I pick a guitar up to just jam out a tune. I'm still in dread dreamland with eyes for a couple other Gibson dread's, but this forum does cause GAS and I'm developing a hankerin' for a J200. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jinder Posted October 23, 2018 Share Posted October 23, 2018 But Jinder - am I wrong in assuming there are big differences in the power within these instruments. Have not played them all, , , but some of the Super Js I met on the way were surprisingly silent for their size where others had the might one would expect. And I don't believe we're necessarily talkin' conventional pre-Norlin-Norlin-post-Norlin here. You’re not wrong, Em7...I’ve played many of them and find they’re very setup sensitive instruments. Some are quieter than others, but I find (YMMV of course) that the correct setup can go some way towards equalising things. I don’t think they’re more variable than most guitars, but I think they tend to have a visual element (big, long scale, dramatic looking) that gives the prospective player a predisposition towards expecting the sound to match the visuals...not all will be as loud and boomy as they look, but some are. Mine is an absolute cannon, not as slinky to play as my AJ but immensely pleasurable nonetheless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madhat Posted October 25, 2018 Share Posted October 25, 2018 Taste changed or acquired? I can and do appreciate the differences in makes/models... and always seem to come back around to things set aside. Because of this I try to be careful not to discount or let go of something to indulge in another unless budget and time are the important factors. In other words- I wouldn't get rid of the Martin. have fun madhat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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