J-45...how to find a great one?

[OldCowboy]

Yes it is, and also the question what is my guitar worth? Well its worth what you are willing to let it go for it and what the buyer is willing to pay it go for. No more no less.

Words of timeless wisdom!

[j45nick]

Yes it is, and also the question what is my guitar worth? Well its worth what you are willing to let it go for it and what the buyer is willing to pay it go for. No more no less.

 

 

In economics, the "willingness to pay" is the clearest value of a good or service at any point in time, not what the seller is willing to sell it for. I may be willing to let it go for $100, but if there is no buyer at that price, $100 is not the true value. In order for there to be a market for anything, however, you need both a willing seller and a willing buyer, in which case the market will ultimately determine the value if there are no external forces at work.

 

That's pure theory, of course. Your experience may vary.

 

"What's my guitar worth?" is always an interesting question, but the answer to that question is driven by the cost of alternatives.

 

We really see that at work in the vintage guitar market. For recent guitars--say less than 10 years old--there are almost always lots of alternatives for a model like the J-45. There are fewer alternatives as you move back in time, and a scarcity value enters the equation independently of differences in value purely as musical instruments. The value of those 90 or so pre-war D-45's is the perfect example of how scarcity drives a market. The may be no better as musical instruments than a D-28 'bone of the same era, but that scarcity value drive prices to astronomical levels.

[rustystrings]

How precisely does the guitar you buy have to match up with the one which, plopped into your lap, has transformed you into a Gibson guy? I think you should find out which variation you played, and then go looking in its general family for the one you want. There are so many impassioned words out there about this variant or that variant of the J-45, but in the end you're talking about a general family resemblance, sound-wise. All J-45s don't sound alike, but if you play a bunch of them in a room you'll get a feel for all the things they share, and the odds are pretty good that the Venn diagram of shared characteristics is probably what you want.

 

My J-45 was built when Gibson offered a basic J-45 with minor tweaks as a Guitar Center special - no exotic woods, no specific copying of any given year or model, just a bunch of classical features that covered the Venn diagram of Gibson sound and playability features mentioned above, coupled with a pickup system. It was also a case of dead strings and poor setup making a guitar appear to be a dog - but fortunately, I could see through that. Aesthetically, the top grain on the treble side looks much darker than the bass side - but the grain was really really nice and tight and straight Sitka with some nice silking in there. The nut slots were so shallow the guitar wouldn't really play in tune, and the strings were, predictably, Guitar Center-dead, a whole new category of dead beyond deader than disco or deader than a doorknob. Deepening the slots, tweaking the truss rod and fitting good strings all helped a great deal - then I played it and played it and played it, and now it's my favorite guitar ever in 40 years of playing.

 

I will note that if you are looking at online, look closely at the grain of the soundboard and see if you get any feeling about it. My classical guitar is a Kremona I got heavily discounted because of a nasty-looking but ultimately minor crack in the side. The top is the single most amazing soundboard I think I've ever seen, an absolutely beautiful piece of Carpathian mountain spruce with tight grain and lovely silking and cross hatching. I stalked it online for months. Every time I looked at the photos, I KNEW it would sound great, and I was right, and I don't think that is just wishful thinking or projection.. This guitar, also, needed serious setup. It was really strange - I finished dialing in the action, I replaced the dead strings, and ... bleh. I played it for an hour, set it down, did something else, came back, retuned it, starting playing again and - BOOM! Suddenly, it was THERE as a guitar, like it needed to wake up or something. And whenever I don't play it for an extended period of time, now I know - give it some warm up time and it will be amazing.

[zombywoof]

Hello.

 

First, I disagree with others about the whole tone wood thing. Way too many variables that go into making sound come out of a guitar to worry about one small aspect of the build - a slightly thicker top, a tad more radically scalloped bracing or whatever. When they rates woods these days it has nothing to do with sound (it is not like they are tap testing each piece of top wood) but is all about looks. I have been playing Gibsons since the mid-1960s. And while I have played many really nice J-45s I have owned two which I thought were "great" and they could not be more different from one another - a 1956 SJ and a 1942 J-50. Not saying the others were dogs by a long shot but just that these two guitars had something magical going on that grabbed me by the scruff of my neck and shook me.

 

Second, it takes a familiarity with any model to know when you have landed the "best of the breed." But that only goes so far as we also all have our quirks. Some of us prefer a brighter sounding version while others grok over a deep rumbling bass. It comes down to the ears of the beholder.

 

I would also add I think the whole Gibson inconsistency thing is way overplayed. A lot of what folks complain about has less to do with the build and more to do with strings, how long the guitar has been sitting, and the conditions it was shipped or stored in.

 

In the end though, you should have no trouble finding a J-45 with the characteristic family voice. It just sometimes takes a bit of patience and coaxing to bring it out.

[Cougar]

....Despite all its shortcomings, Guitar Center is great for returns and if you buy on line, you can return locally and not incur any shipping costs.....

 

I can attest to this. I bought a Songwriter 12-string from a GC store in another state. It was damaged. Took it to my local GC. Full refund. Thank you, ma'am. I've since got a great deal on a near new burst Songwriter 12 from Chicago Music Exchange. Killer guitar!

[bobouz]

Despite all its shortcomings, Guitar Center is great for returns and if you buy on line, you can return locally and not incur any shipping costs.

Yes indeed. I'm not willing to take all the risk in a guitar purchase, and have never bought an "as is" guitar from reverb, etc. Guitar Center essentially eliminates all the risk. If it's a used guitar from out of your local area, you pay the initial shipping, and that's it. Otherwise, you can do a full in-person return.

 

On the down side, their descriptors are sparse, so you've got to thoroughly question someone at the store with the guitar in-hand. Last guitar I purchased from them was a CJ-165ec, listed in 'great' condition. Upon arrival, it is actually in 'near mint' condition - a wonderful guitar overall, and at a very fair price. I have had to return a few shipped guitars over the years, but the vast majority have been serious winners.

[Dave F]

Yes indeed. I'm not willing to take all the risk in a guitar purchase, and have never bought an "as is" guitar from reverb, etc. Guitar Center essentially eliminates all the risk. If it's a used guitar from out of your local area, you pay the initial shipping, and that's it. Otherwise, you can do a full in-person return.

 

On the down side, their descriptors are sparse, so you've got to thoroughly question someone at the store with the guitar in-hand. Last guitar I purchased from them was a CJ-165ec, listed in 'great' condition. Upon arrival, it is actually in 'near mint' condition - a wonderful guitar overall, and at a very fair price. I have had to return a few shipped guitars over the years, but the vast majority have been serious winners.

 

You can have it shipped to your local store and avoid initial shipping cost plus open it in the store and return it on the spot.

[Dave F]

I can attest to this. I bought a Songwriter 12-string from a GC store in another state. It was damaged. Took it to my local GC. Full refund. Thank you, ma'am. I've since got a great deal on a near new burst Songwriter 12 from Chicago Music Exchange. Killer guitar!

 

CME is very good to deal with. I've bought a few from them.

[bobouz]

You can have it shipped to your local store and avoid initial shipping cost plus open it in the store and return it on the spot.

In my case, the nearest GC is 80 miles away in the big city, so it works better for me to have it shipped to my house & fully assess the instrument at a leisurely pace in a quiet environment. If the instrument ends up as a keeper, I've then saved 160 miles in gas, the cost of a meal, drivetime, and the certain pleasure of having to talk to one or more GC dweebs!

[Dave F]

In my case, the nearest GC is 80 miles away in the big city, so it works better for me to have it shipped to my house & fully assess the instrument at a leisurely pace in a quiet environment. If the instrument ends up as a keeper, I've then saved 160 miles in gas, the cost of a meal, drivetime, and the certain pleasure of having to talk to one or more GC dweebs!

I would do the same if I were that far away from a GC. I’m about 6 miles away from one.

[zombywoof]

In my case, the nearest GC is 80 miles away in the big city, so it works better for me to have it shipped to my house & fully assess the instrument at a leisurely pace in a quiet environment. If the instrument ends up as a keeper, I've then saved 160 miles in gas, the cost of a meal, drivetime, and the certain pleasure of having to talk to one or more GC dweebs!

 

80 miles is nothing. I used to drive further than that to get to my repair guy who was not in a city but in the middle of nowhere Missouri. We used to just hit Kansas City on the way back and make a day of it. But I guess it would only be worth the trip if the store had more than one J-45 to try out.

[bobouz]

80 miles is nothing.

Well, that kinda depends. The 160 mile round trip can quickly become quite an adventure if there's black ice and/or snow in the coast range - and no cell service most of the way. Learned that the hard way one winter while going over the pass to do some X-mas shopping.

 

As it so happens, I'll be driving over there tomorrow for a doctor appointment - if the weather gods are with me!

[sbpark]

I should also mention, don't get caught up on one particular model or incarnation of J45. I owned several "newer" J45's ranging from three standards, two True Vintage and one Vintage models. The one that I kept was a Standard! Now, just because the others mentioned didn't make the grade, they obviously went to new homes, and they may very well be the best J45 that person has ever had. Again, it's all relative. l

 

And FWIW, I drove 4 hours each way (twice) when I bought my Advanced Jumbo. If you're that concerned and worried about not getting a "good one", suck it up and put in the work and effort.

[Guitar Fundi]

My .02

 

I bought a Southern Jumbo new online because it had the fatter neck I was looking for and when I got it the tone was just not what I wanted, some of it was but not the low thump E string I wanted, etc. but guitar was gorgeous and had a fattish neck. I went through the usual lets try 50 different string types, started with the Gibson Masterbuilt Premium PB 12s and 50 different sets later decided almost full circle on the Gibson Masterbuilt Premium PB 13s, LOL. Tone still not what I thought I was paying for, but in first 8 weeks the guitar really opened up VERY noticeably that it gave me hope and 18 months later the low E is there! Tone is brilliant!

 

If the guitar out of the case isn't tonally perfect... play the strings off of it for at least a year and give the guitar a chance to open up... also it won't open up if you don't play it ;-)

 

Good Luck and God Bless!