rbpicker Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 i installed a set of Kluson Deluxe 3 on a plate tuners on my J45 right after I got it. I like the look and the resulting weight reduction, but they just never worked very well. They were quite stiff and had excessive backlash. The guitar was hard to tune and went out of tune constantly. Just not a good product, in my opinion. About an hour ago I decided I would reinstall the big globby tuners that came on the guitar until I could decide on a replacement set for the Klusons. Well, I was surprised to discover that the additional weight on the end of the neck actually improved the sustain by quite a bit. I also "think" the tone is improved as well. Maybe it's in my head, but it sounds more alive and vibrant with the old tuners on. I will likely still search out some new open backs or something else to replace them, because I really don't like the look. Thought y'all might find this interesting. What tuners are you using on your 45s? I might write a song about this, Sal. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 My J-45 has the stock Grover tuners. I'd still like to hear the song..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uncle fester Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 I've got the white button tuners that come on the vintage J45s. Open back Waverly's would be the way I'd go if I were to make a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 The thought of headstock-mass bein' able to change the sonic nature has been discussed on several occasions - each time leaving me disorientated. Both sides argue with quite convincing, never simple, logic and. . . ?!? When I replaced the golden Rotomatics on the Dove for 6 waffle-back-also-golden-tulips last winter, I sensed a slight change. Or did I, , , did it lose a grain of power/sustain/tone, , , or was it placebo based on the lighter feeling beyond the left hand. Wouldn't out-count the possibility of the various senses interfering with each other when opened to max. It is terrain vague. That said, your situation is more pronounced than mine. Rotos and waffle-tulips after all, aren't that size-different. Long short = You should do us all a favor and measure the sustain before next switch. It will establish a beginning. The look of those tuning-machines - surprisingly important, isn't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MissouriPicker Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Unless something breaks, all my guitars have the same tuners they came with. Strings are about all I change, and that's only a couple (or less) times each year. I understand why lots of folks like to tweak their guitars. I'm just not mechanically and technically inclined with the ability to do those things. Beyond that, so long as I like the sound and the tuners work, I'm not likely to alter anything. Anyway, I think each person should do what they like, enjoy, and have the ability to do. Go for it, have a blast and don't sweat what anyone else thinks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 The old Fathead from the 70s was an aftermarket product to achieve the same results: add mass to the headstock to increase sustain. I used one on a Les Paul and a Stratocaster and swore to the heavens it worked, but like many say it could have been wishful hearing. Seems right, though, that adding mass would increase sustain and perhaps volume to a lesser extent. I dunno.....maybe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Wilson Posted December 16, 2018 Share Posted December 16, 2018 Unless something breaks, all my guitars have the same tuners they came with. Strings are about all I change, and that's only a couple (or less) times each year. I understand why lots of folks like to tweak their guitars. I'm just not mechanically and technically inclined with the ability to do those things. Beyond that, so long as I like the sound and the tuners work, I'm not likely to alter anything. Anyway, I think each person should do what they like, enjoy, and have the ability to do. Go for it, have a blast and don't sweat what anyone else thinks. I'm thinking that you are a smart man! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Roger on one 45... the one I bought from you... I have Kluson creme button tuners. On the new 45 Mahogany I have a different brand of 3 on a plate white button tuners. I’m having a senior moment so the name escapes me, but it’s in that older post I wrote about the J45 Mahogany. I don’t doubt that sustain might be greater with the Grover Rotos. They might or might not. Don’t know I’d be able to tell, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kidblast Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I think it is not in your head, more mass at the headstock makes a difference. I used to do setups and mods for my students when I was teaching, (back in the 90s).. a # of them upgraded from their starter guitars to Epi Les Paul Standards, the tuners were crap, I'd have them order grovers, and I'd install them, the guitars primary tone (not plugged in) was definitely noticeably "thicker" on each one I upgraded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 Funny- personally, the quick decay is one of the endearing qualities of a J-45. I recently got rid of an old Southern Jumbo, and one of the main reasons was because it had too much sustain.. I wasn’t looking for it to be a fingerstylie guitar. As E-min7 was saying- both sides of the headstock mass / sustain subject have merit, but there also might be a level of diminishing returns- touching a headstock to a glass window is a fun little trick, but encasing a headstock in a bucket of concrete- not so much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbpicker Posted December 17, 2018 Author Share Posted December 17, 2018 You bring up a good point, 62burst. I just sold a rosewood guitar and one of the characteristics I didn’t like about the sound was the sustain it produced. The notes can trip over each other, depending on the style of playing. There are instances (blues comes to mind) where a quick decay is desirable. Roger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 The old Fathead from the 70s was an aftermarket product to achieve the same results: add mass to the headstock to increase sustain. I was going to dredge up the same memory. There was also a trend for a bit with the small custom electric builders moving away from truss rods with the belief that a fat neck without the channel cut into it fattened the sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I have swapped out more tuners in my lifetime than I can recall. While some worked better than others, I have never heard any appreciable difference in sound. If added mass to the headstock improved sound we would all be playing slotheads. By the way, this is the oldest set of tuners I own - Grover Champions. This set is original to a locally-made fiddle I snagged which dates to 1922. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hall Posted December 17, 2018 Share Posted December 17, 2018 I'm with the MissouriPicker. I don't always like the looks, but if they work right I'm not going to fix what isn't broken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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