Buc McMaster Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Here's a beauty........cherry burst J-45 ADJ from 1963 in near-new condition. I don't follow vintage guitar pricing so I can't speak to that issue, but it sure is a pretty one! 1963 J-45 ADJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MorrisrownSal Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 I agree Buc - Yowsa.... So many guitars - so little time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cougar Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Here's a beauty........cherry burst J-45 ADJ from 1963 in near-new condition. I don't follow vintage guitar pricing so I can't speak to that issue, but it sure is a pretty one! A beauty, all right. A check of about 20 J-45 ADJs on reverb suggest this one is priced on the high end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Crazy condition. Getting interested in an ADJ, Buc? . The case, chord book, and Mel Bay books ($1.25/ea) in mint condish complete the time capsule appeal. Funny how the Iced Tea fade didn't happen on this one. 'Won't soon forget the guitar that same seller Rockin' Robin had that vw1300 had linked to a few years back- listed as a 1930's J-35 with factory-looking re-top and re-spray (also a red '60's burst). . . one piece hog back, tapered headstock, but possibly no taper to the body. . . (hmm... refurb'ed Trojan??) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OldCowboy Posted January 5, 2019 Share Posted January 5, 2019 Fine condition and hopefully sounds as good as it looks. If it's 2/3 as good a player as my '62 J-50 (which ain't near as pretty) it just might be a good'n. The price is pretty optimistic on the seller end, but how long it stays around will tell a lot about that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vw1300 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Crazy condition. Getting interested in an ADJ, Buc? . The case, chord book, and Mel Bay books ($1.25/ea) in mint condish complete the time capsule appeal. Funny how the Iced Tea fade didn't happen on this one. 'Won't soon forget the guitar that same seller Rockin' Robin had that vw1300 had linked to a few years back- listed as a 1930's J-35 with factory-looking re-top and re-spray (also a red '60's burst). . . one piece hog back, tapered headstock, but possibly no taper to the body. . . (hmm... refurb'ed Trojan??) LOL, the one I linked wasn't a cherry burst but a '70s style burst respray. I wasn't convinced the neck and body were originally part of the same guitar either, since the neck was painted black. But they were asking $1600 and I still wonder if I should have bought it - super punchy and memorable. Would have been a good candidate for a refinish job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard McCoy Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Fishy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 A beauty, all right. A check of about 20 J-45 ADJs on reverb suggest this one is priced on the high end. Price is driven by condition in this case. It is stunningly clean. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blindboygrunt Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Fishy. Don’t just say fishy Leonard ! Tell us what you see 😩 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Looks too perfect for a 1963 guitar, but of course it's hard to tell without seeing it in person. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 LOL, the one I linked wasn't a cherry burst but a '70s style burst respray. I wasn't convinced the neck and body were originally part of the same guitar either, since the neck was painted black. But they were asking $1600 and I still wonder if I should have bought it - super punchy and memorable. Would have been a good candidate for a refinish job. ah, correct, you are, sir- 'guess they all just fade into one big burst after a while. Glad you actually got to play it. Photobucket might be holding my photos ransom, but I managed to find this in the busy box: sorry for the detour; now back to your regularly scheduled Cherryburst. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Looks too perfect for a 1963 guitar, but of course it's hard to tell without seeing it in person. The incredible condition of the case, and the chord books (which seem to have been stored in a vacuum), should lessen some doubt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EuroAussie Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 'Chunky wide neck ' .. for 1963, I have my doubts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leonard McCoy Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Don’t just say fishy Leonard ! Tell us what you see �� Fair enough. To my ignorant eyes, this looks like a new ca. 2016 Custom Shop J-45 1960's reissue sold as a J-45ADJ from the actual 1960s with some chord books thrown in to further throw you off. The s/n mentioned in the text of the offer doesn't match the headstock's s/n which itself seems to be obscured to a larger degree. By the way, the s/n on the headstock matches that of a guitar from the Gibson Custom Shop. The Alligator case—according to the offer, apparently original—is another point of contention... The condition of the guitar is not only clean, it's pristine across the board. Sparkly white ceramic bridge and tuner buttons. A perfectly sprayed, unaged sunburst finish. Lacquer that is in perfect condition across the board and thickly applied and perfectly leveled on the front plate of the headstock. A pristine pickguard tinged in bordeaux red made out fine new-age plastic and superbly rounded off. A complicated, finely detailed rosette, perfectly sprayed around, that I don't think was made like that or even possible in the 1960s. I'm sure afficionados more versed in vintage Gibsons could go on. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buc McMaster Posted January 6, 2019 Author Share Posted January 6, 2019 Indeed, this does appear to be a nearly perfect example of a vintage J-45. I know the owner of this establishment very well and trying to pull a fast one in such a manner is not in his character......at all. I intend to make a visit and take a look at this piece and am seriously considering buying it.......the price shown is high but, being a very good friend of the family, I reckon I can wrangle a much better deal. Yes, it is a right handed guitar and I am a southpaw, but if this is as advertised it's a piece to just hold on to for the future......leave it for the heirs as a serious piece of Gibson history and, to a lesser extent, an investment. Will advise....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zombywoof Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 The skinny neck carve makes 1960s Gibsons a no starter for me. Baby aint got no back. While not a deal killer, I am not a big fan of the cherry bursts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vw1300 Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Indeed, this does appear to be a nearly perfect example of a vintage J-45. I know the owner of this establishment very well and trying to pull a fast one in such a manner is not in his character......at all. +1 on the owner's character - I've dealt with him a little bit. We eagerly await your report! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 'Chunky wide neck ' .. for 1963, I have my doubts I thought the exact same thing. My 1965 J-50 has a very skinny neck (which I like). But I know there were a lot of variations during the 60's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Fair enough. To my ignorant eyes, this looks like a new ca. 2016 Custom Shop J-45 1960's reissue sold as a J-45ADJ from the actual 1960s with some chord books thrown in to further throw you off. The s/n mentioned in the text of the offer doesn't match the headstock's s/n which itself seems to be obscured to a larger degree. By the way, the s/n on the headstock matches that of a guitar from the Gibson Custom Shop. The Alligator case—according to the offer, apparently original—is another point of contention... The condition of the guitar is not only clean, it's pristine across the board. Sparkly white ceramic bridge and tuner buttons. A perfectly sprayed, unaged sunburst finish. Lacquer that is in perfect condition across the board and thickly applied and perfectly leveled on the front plate of the headstock. A pristine pickguard tinged in bordeaux red made out fine new-age plastic and superbly rounded off. A complicated, finely detailed rosette, perfectly sprayed around, that I don't think was made like that or even possible in the 1960s. I'm sure afficionados more versed in vintage Gibsons could go on. After downloading the photos and enlarging them, I have to disagree. 1. The tuners themselves have flecks of rust on them, consistent with the purported age of the guitar. This is not relic'ing. It is the natural tendency over time of the underlying steel of the tuners to begin to corrode when the thin nickel plating starts to fail. It is minimal, but it is clearly there. Those are single-line Kluson Deluxe tuners, which they stopped using in the early 1960's. There is no fixed date when they stopped using them. It was a matter of when the stock was all used up. The ceramic of the adjustable saddle does not change color over time, in my experience. 2. Not all cherryburst finishes faded. Some red dye lots were defective, and faded almost completely under long-term UV exposure. Others from the mid-60's look just as good now as when they were new. If you look carefully under magnification, you can see some finish flaws around the pickguard near the neck. Gibson has been "perfectly spraying" nitro lacquer for almost 100 years. This is not a modern phenomenon. 2. The pickguard looks exactly like the ones from the mid-60's, and is a bit thicker I believe than the batwings from the late 1950's. If you download and enlarge the pickguard photos, it shows a fair number of pick scratches on the pickguard in the exact pattern you would expected from light strumming. 3. There is no lacquer checking obvious anywhere, but the guitar has to be photographed properly for that to show, unless it is pretty significant. The 1968 ES 335 I sold last year has an original lacquer finish that was in similar condition. The neck on my old J-45, which was re-sprayed by Gibson when they re-shaped the neck in 1968, is completely unchecked and still in like-new condition. Much depends on the conditions in which the guitar is stored over time, but a lot of it seems random. The lacquer job on the headstock is actually pretty lousy. It has a lot of orange peel in it. If someone got a new Bozeman guitar with that quality of finish on the headstock, they'd probably scream bloody murder here. 4. The plastic parts on the guitar, such as the binding and rosette, have yellowed quite a bit, which is more obvious in some photos than others. The double rosette shown (3-py outer, 7-ply inner) is exactly the same one that is on the 1968 top on my 1950 J-45 (re-topped by Gibson in 1968), and is the one Gibson started using on the J-45 in the early 1960's, I believe. With all due respect, the masking of rosettes for spraying is an old art. That is not a modern innovation. The people who did this type of work in Kalamazoo were artists, just like their counterparts in Bozeman today. Masking tape, Frisket, and the x-acto knife have been tools of the trade since at least the 1930's. On the inside, the "J-45 ADJ BRIDGE" stamp is typical of the period. Sometimes it just said "J-45 ADJ". Then there's the small matter of the serial number. After downloading the photos and enlarging carefully, the serial number on the headstock is quite clearly 186793. By the dater on guitarhq.com, one of the better ones around, that serial number unambiguously dates the guitar to early 1964. Obviously, without seeing the guitar first-hand, you can't be sure. But what I see leads me to believe that the guitar is what is it represented to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boyd Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 and the chord books (which seem to have been stored in a vacuum), should lessen some doubt. That takes a leap of faith, doesn't it? They also look too good to be true. ;) But I have no idea, certainly could be completely legitimate. Makes no difference to me either way, that price is way too high and I already have the '65 J-50 anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
62burst Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Nick- thanks for taking a closer look and writing that out. . . 'don't know if it was on this guitar or another recent thread, but you'd mentioned all of the wear (or lack thereof) being consistent across all of the components and on the guitar itself, which is always a good thing to keep an eye out for. That takes a leap of faith, doesn't it? They also look too good to be true. ;) Yes, indeed. But Buc's addition of "very good friend of the family" goes a long way to lessen doubts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 Everything looks right to me, including the fat frets from the '60s (love 'em!), which you would not see on any recent repro version. Also think the mahogany back is stunningly beautiful. Overall, a gorgeous example! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobouz Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 The ceramic of the adjustable saddle does not change color over time, in my experience. Yes, even one that has decades of grime & grit can be cleaned to a shiny white in minutes with rubbing alcohol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted January 6, 2019 Share Posted January 6, 2019 My 2006 Custom Shop J45 1964 Reissue has a Custom Shop Logo on the back of the fretboard neck that is nitro lacquered over. I believe most Custom Shop guitars have the same so they can’t be passed off as the original. QM aka Jazzman Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted January 7, 2019 Share Posted January 7, 2019 'Chunky wide neck ' .. for 1963, I have my doubts Nothing chunky about this neck - only compared to the squares. Obviously in an amazing state. I personally prefer the faded cherries, , , and the more the better. That said, 45's from this period can be pure sonic gold, , , including the clay. P.S. - This gem is probably a 64'er. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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