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Something Doesn't Jive with this Serial number and Model


imunwell

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The Serial Number on my 2005 Custom is 055118. My research tells me that this is a 2005 '68 reissue. Based on this information.

 

YYRRRM

YY is the production year

RRR® indicates the guitar's place in production for that year.

M is the model being reissued

Reissue model codes:

1= SG Custom and Special

2= SG Standard

3= 1963 Firebird 1

4= 1964 Firebird III

5= 1965 Firebird V & VII

8= 1968 Les Paul Custom

 

However, Gibson's support team is telling me that it is NOT. They say the serial number corresponds to Model number LPC-SLBCH1 which is a regular ol Les Paul Custom 2005 model.

Another thing that makes me question this information is the fact that the bridge is an ABR-1 and instead of the post screwing into the metal inserts, they screw directly into the wood top of the guitar. Although the wiring isn't all that neat, it does look to be '68 reissue wiring. I have no doubts at all that this is a true Gibson the quality is exactly what I'm used to from my experience and the setup is spot on as far as perfect intonation all along the neck. A fake just won't be close to this guy.

 

The person I spoke with at Gibson Support, is someone who has helped me quite a few times over the last 10 years of so and he also checked with the Custom division and they confirmed that based on the Serial Number, it's a regular Les Paul Custom.

 

Any help would greatly be appreciated, even if it would include a separate contact.

Thanks for your time!

Harry

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The Serial Number on my 2005 Custom is 055118. My research tells me that this is a 2005 '68 reissue. Based on this information.

 

YYRRRM

YY is the production year

RRR® indicates the guitar's place in production for that year.

M is the model being reissued

Reissue model codes:

1= SG Custom and Special

2= SG Standard

3= 1963 Firebird 1

4= 1964 Firebird III

5= 1965 Firebird V & VII

8= 1968 Les Paul Custom

 

However, Gibson's support team is telling me that it is NOT. They say the serial number corresponds to Model number LPC-SLBCH1 which is a regular ol Les Paul Custom 2005 model.

Another thing that makes me question this information is the fact that the bridge is an ABR-1 and instead of the post screwing into the metal inserts, they screw directly into the wood top of the guitar. Although the wiring isn't all that neat, it does look to be '68 reissue wiring. I have no doubts at all that this is a true Gibson the quality is exactly what I'm used to from my experience and the setup is spot on as far as perfect intonation all along the neck. A fake just won't be close to this guy.

 

The person I spoke with at Gibson Support, is someone who has helped me quite a few times over the last 10 years of so and he also checked with the Custom division and they confirmed that based on the Serial Number, it's a regular Les Paul Custom.

 

Any help would greatly be appreciated, even if it would include a separate contact.

Thanks for your time!

Harry

 

IF you spoke to 'BOB' (I forget his last name), he is a walking encyclopedia of all things GIBSON....and I took a quick look and it looks to me like it is the 511TH Custom Shop Guitar of 2005, a Les Paul 1968 Re-Issue. IDK, if those Guitars had the ABR-1 bridges though..........and that doesn't seem like it would be a 'ONE-OFF' type of ADD-ON, but as Standard equipment in 1968? MAYBE ? WOW, IDK...I know you could get anything you wanted put on an order during the Norlin Years, but that was past 1970...and IDK when GIBSON came out with the Made-To-Measure Program, but its more recent than 2005?

 

I'm no expert but I have never seen that type of Bridge on a Les Paul.....PLUS, on a 2005 Les Paul Custom...the serial# should(?) have CS in front of the #'s, no?

 

I also THOUGHT OF THIS:

 

IF IT IS A RE-ISSUE of a 1968 Les Paul STANDARD it should say 'Les Paul Model' signature on the HEAD-STOCK Veneer (without the WHEAT BUCKET), yes? If it is a 2005 LES PAUL CUSTOM, then..... IT SHOULD HAVE THE DOUBLE-CUT DIAMONDS ON THE HEAD-STOCK Veneer, YES? SO, what is on the HEAD-STOCK Veneer? DOUBLE-CUT DIAMONDS or 'Les Paul Model' signature, or.........I won't believe it BUT....... the WHEAT BUCKET ?

 

LMK, the suspense is killin me.....

Edited by Wild Bill 212
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I also THOUGHT OF THIS: IF IT IS A RE-ISSUE of a 1968 Les Paul STANDARD...

There wasn't a Les Paul Standard in 1968.

After the LP was redesigned to become the SG in 1960-61 the Standard was absent from the range until '74-'75.

 

Pip.

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Why do people call up a company, get about as definitive a pedigree as you can get directly from the source, and then go on a forum and ask people to help them convince themselves that the guitar is different, more specialer than the people that made it say it is?

 

Really. "CALL GIBSON" is the first thing anyone is told that asks "HOW SPECIAL IS MY SPECIAL?".

 

I really just don't get it is all, it isn't an attack, it isn't personal, not slagging the OP or anyone in particular, just truly wonder why a call to the people that made it just...isn't...enough.

 

rct

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It's not as straightforward a subject as I imagined...

 

The regular Custom Shop LP Custom should have a CS prefix in front of the serial number but, having just had a quick look I've found (on-line) pictures of several other 'regular' (i.e. non reissue) LP Customs which are stamped with similar serial numbers to yours - 050328 being one example. Very curious.

Does your Custom have a 'Custom Shop' waterslide on the rear of the peghead-neck area?

 

It's hard to believe that 'The Horse's Mouth' has got it wrong but even so.......

 

I rarely disagree with rct's views but on this occasion I do.

It matters because, clearly, a Les Paul Custom '68 reissue will be worth considerably more than a regular Custom.

 

Pip.

Edited by pippy
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It takes about two minutes to lift the pickups and see what is penciled under them.

 

If it says "LPC" you have an answer.

 

If it says "CS 68 RI" you have an answer.

 

If is says nothing you pretty much have to go with what the people that made it say it is.

 

rct

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It takes about two minutes to lift the pickups and see what is penciled under them.

If it says "LPC" you have an answer.

If it says "CS 68 RI" you have an answer.

If is says nothing you pretty much have to go with what the people that made it say it is...

I'd pretty much agree with that.

 

One other thing to check would be to see if there is a 'R' stamp in the control cavity. I'm not an expert on the '68 R-I (clearly!) but the R-I's of the Standards all have such a mark.

If there is a waterslide, of course, it's not a '68 reissue.

Did the original '68 Custom have wide binding in the cutaway? If so / if not do the reissues follow the trend and do the regular LPC's differ?

Does the OP's instrument have an Historic TRC or a normal one? Easily changed, I know, but it might be an indicator.

 

As one who finds such ephemera interesting this has piqued my curiosity...

 

Pip.

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There wasn't a Les Paul Standard in 1968.

After the LP was redesigned to become the SG in 1960-61 the Standard was absent from the range until '74-'75.

 

Pip.

 

SO WHAT ? Whatever the **** it was called in 1968, it should say Les Paul Model on the Head stock....OR, because the STANDARD did not re-appear until 1974, Does that mean it woud NOT say Les Paul MODEL on the headstock ?

 

 

and if its a 2005 Les Paul CUSTOM, it should have the Double-Cut Diamonds on the Head-Stock...rippin out the Pick-Up's is not what I would suggest but its not a bad idea, I still go with the DC Diamonds if its a 2005 CUSTOM.

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Why do people call up a company, get about as definitive a pedigree as you can get directly from the source, and then go on a forum and ask people to help them convince themselves that the guitar is different, more specialer than the people that made it say it is?

 

Really. "CALL GIBSON" is the first thing anyone is told that asks "HOW SPECIAL IS MY SPECIAL?".

 

I really just don't get it is all, it isn't an attack, it isn't personal, not slagging the OP or anyone in particular, just truly wonder why a call to the people that made it just...isn't...enough.

 

rct

 

IDK, BUT,

 

LOL, sure sounds like an attack, BWAH HA HA !!

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SO WHAT ? Whatever the **** it was called in 1968, it should say Les Paul Model on the Head stock....OR, because the STANDARD did not re-appear until 1974, Does that mean it woud NOT say Les Paul MODEL on the headstock ?

and if its a 2005 Les Paul CUSTOM, it should have the Double-Cut Diamonds on the Head-Stock...rippin out the Pick-Up's is not what I would suggest but its not a bad idea, I still go with the DC Diamonds if its a 2005 CUSTOM.

"Whatever the **** it was called in 1968..."...

 

Are you trying to be an arse?

Of course it's a Les Paul Custom you idiot. What the OP is trying to find out is if it's a 'regular' Custom or a reissue of the 1968 Custom.

 

As far as the 1968 Gibson Les Paul range is concerned I suggest you do some serious homework.

As, indeed, will I regarding the specific details of the binding on the Custom.

 

Pip.

Edited by pippy
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Why do people call up a company, get about as definitive a pedigree as you can get directly from the source, and then go on a forum and ask people to help them convince themselves that the guitar is different, more specialer than the people that made it say it is?

 

Really. "CALL GIBSON" is the first thing anyone is told that asks "HOW SPECIAL IS MY SPECIAL?".

 

I really just don't get it is all, it isn't an attack, it isn't personal, not slagging the OP or anyone in particular, just truly wonder why a call to the people that made it just...isn't...enough.

 

rct

 

 

IDK, BUT,

 

LOL, sure sounds like an attack, BWAH HA HA !!

It isn’t an attack,it isn’t personal,not slagging.

People come on Internet forums asking honest questions because they go to the source and don’t get the answers their looking for.

I contacted Gibson about a guitar i have that they built,they told me what it was but i knew what it was just by looking at it,i was wanting a bit more information about the guitar,they couldn’t tell me any more about the guitar even though they built it.

People like myself only come on forums like this trying to find answers,not to have people being smartarses or dicks,criticising us for asking honest questions.

I don’t have the answer to the op’s question but I understand his desire to find out what guitar he’s actually got,is that so hard to try and help somebody on an Internet forum?

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Hey I am going to stir the pot a bit here myself. I just bought this 2008 custom today and mine also has the exact same vintage style bridge set up that the original poster has described and shown with his. So I am curious a bit but I am not clipping new strings to pull the pick ups just yet.

 

Here is my post in the gibson Custom thread.

 

http://forum.gibson.com/index.php?/topic/145740-my-first-custom-shop-les-paul/page__pid__1974283#entry1974283

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Plus my curiosity got the best of me and I did go ahead and pull the pick ups. No writing or codes in the cavity but it has the burst bucket PAF 1 and 2 pick ups. So I do not know if the OP"s les paul is the same as mine. Mine seems to be a Regular custom shop les paul. Nothing to sneeze at though.

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"Whatever the **** it was called in 1968..."...

 

Are you trying to be an arse?

Of course it's a Les Paul Custom you idiot. What the OP is trying to find out is if it's a 'regular' Custom or a reissue of the 1968 Custom.

 

As far as the 1968 Gibson Les Paul range is concerned I suggest you do some serious homework.

As, indeed, will I regarding the specific details of the binding on the Custom.

 

Pip.

 

WHY YES, as a Matter of fact, I AM !Thanks for noticing, and I would love to come and say "HELLO" TOO ! and, just for some shits and giggles..... IF you go tell someone else what to do, IN PERSON? I would love to see what happens next ! I said I was no expert.......

and as far as an IDIOT ? I am no expert, never said I was...... BUT I WILL HAND YOUR "ARSE" TO YOU, IN PERSON, with pleasure ! I did not tell you what to do either, simply stating facts Mary........PPPFFFF.....

 

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It isn't an attack,it isn't personal,not slagging.

People come on Internet forums asking honest questions because they go to the source and don't get the answers their looking for.

I contacted Gibson about a guitar i have that they built,they told me what it was but i knew what it was just by looking at it,i was wanting a bit more information about the guitar,they couldn't tell me any more about the guitar even though they built it.

People like myself only come on forums like this trying to find answers,not to have people being smartarses or dicks,criticising us for asking honest questions.

I don't have the answer to the op's question but I understand his desire to find out what guitar he's actually got,is that so hard to try and help somebody on an Internet forum?

 

Oh no, of course not......I must have misunderstood you, YES, that is it........the part about Your wondering why the Guy, after being told what he has by the manufacturer (the people that manufactured it) why he has to then resort to asking people on the manufacturer's forums, YES? or something like that?.......sure, I misunderstood......but, I only stated my opinion, like I just told MARY.

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Well Hold the Front Page and Drop the Dead Donkey...

 

Earlier I wrote;

...If there is a waterslide, of course, it's not a '68 reissue...Did the original '68 Custom have wide binding in the cutaway? If so / if not do the reissues follow the trend and do the regular LPC's differ?...

 

I've checked-out quite a few SilverBurst Customs online and all have one or other version of the Custom Shop wateslide - including the '68 reissues.

I then checked out any '68 reissue I could find and they, too, all had a waterslide including the 'True Historic' versions.

 

Why? The '52-'60 Les Paul reissues dropped this practice in 1995.

 

All the Customs I mentioned in my earlier post do have narrow binding so that doesn't get us anywhere nearer the truth of the matter.

 

I'm beginning to be more persuaded that the OP does indeed have a '68 reissue despite what Gibson CS are saying.

Detailed pictures might help (?) but the Nashville / ABR-1 anomaly would, in itself, be hard to explain away.

 

Pip.

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Hmmm......

 

I'm not getting anywhere terribly fast here, I'm sorry to say.

 

I've tried checking out the Gibson peghead logo for any differences but no joy as open 'b' and 'o' were used for all instruments concerned.

I then tried to find out whether the '68 SilverBurst reissues had nickel or chrome hardware. This might have started to get me somewhere...

 

As you say in your opening post your own Custom has the model code LPC-SLBCH1.

Unless I miss my guess this translates as Les Paul Custom SilverBurst Chrome Hardware 1 (i.e. not a "2nd").

 

One particular '68RI I was looking which had the model code appended and it read (..)LPC68VOASBNH1.

My guess is that translates as Les Paul Custom '68 Vintage Original Antique SilverBurst Nickel Hardware 1.

 

I've no way of knowing whether this is accurate info but it's proving difficult to discover exactly what is what since the Custom Shop took over all LPC manufacture in 2004(?). Chrome finish instead of nickel isn't much to go on. It could be that the CS had some overlap in materials/body-blanks/fittings over the years and used whatever seemed to be 'right' at the time? Certainly the lack of a CS prefix in the serial number is confusing as is the ABR-1 but there seem to be dozens of non-R-I - yet still with '68-style appointments and no CS prefix - LP Customs out there.

 

In the end I think the best you can do purely in pragmatic terms - unless someone with more information and/or expertise comes to your aid (and I hope that they do) - is accept the word you were given by Gibson. If you ever wish to sell then by all means point out the more correct Historical detail on your instrument but without an Historic COA and with no R-I back-up notice coming from Gibson I can't see how it could truly be described as a '68 reissue with any accuracy nor conviction.

 

If you do get anywhere further with this please pop back and let us know.

 

Pip.

 

EDIT :

Maybe someone at CS had a wicked sense of humour [laugh]

That could well be the explanation, Scales! By Golly I think you've cracked it!

 

eusa_clap.gif

 

Pip.

Edited by pippy
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THANKS EVERYONE FOR YOUR TIME and for your input. I’m sorry for the delay, I got the flu and to say the least, I wasn’t up for anything but bed..

I would post more pictures but I can’t. For some reason, I’ve been limited. I’ll try another route..

 

I was able to post pictures here. Let me know if you want to see more. THANKS!

 

https://www.hbaudioiems.com/blank

 

 

 

IF you spoke to 'BOB' (I forget his last name), he is a walking encyclopedia of all things GIBSON....and I took a quick look and it looks to me like it is the 511TH Custom Shop Guitar of 2005, a Les Paul 1968 Re-Issue. IDK, if those Guitars had the ABR-1 bridges though..........and that doesn't seem like it would be a 'ONE-OFF' type of ADD-ON, but as Standard equipment in 1968? MAYBE ? WOW, IDK...I know you could get anything you wanted put on an order during the Norlin Years, but that was past 1970...and IDK when GIBSON came out with the Made-To-Measure Program, but its more recent than 2005?

 

I'm no expert but I have never seen that type of Bridge on a Les Paul.....PLUS, on a 2005 Les Paul Custom...the serial# should(?) have CS in front of the #'s, no?

 

I also THOUGHT OF THIS:

 

IF IT IS A RE-ISSUE of a 1968 Les Paul STANDARD it should say 'Les Paul Model' signature on the HEAD-STOCK Veneer (without the WHEAT BUCKET), yes? If it is a 2005 LES PAUL CUSTOM, then..... IT SHOULD HAVE THE DOUBLE-CUT DIAMONDS ON THE HEAD-STOCK Veneer, YES? SO, what is on the HEAD-STOCK Veneer? DOUBLE-CUT DIAMONDS or 'Les Paul Model' signature, or.........I won't believe it BUT....... the WHEAT BUCKET ?

 

LMK, the suspense is killin me.....

It was Bob and I’ve worked with him for years and normally don’t question him but this one just doesn’t add up and he won’t fully explain the things that cause me to believe it’s not a regular custom. The guitar has the double cut diamonds not the wheat bucket. Everything says that it’s a ’68 Reissue except Gibson themselves.

Which brings me to rtc

Why do people call up a company, get about as definitive a pedigree as you can get directly from the source, and then go on a forum and ask people to help them convince themselves that the guitar is different, more specialer than the people that made it say it is?

 

Really. "CALL GIBSON" is the first thing anyone is told that asks "HOW SPECIAL IS MY SPECIAL?".

 

I really just don't get it is all, it isn't an attack, it isn't personal, not slagging the OP or anyone in particular, just truly wonder why a call to the people that made it just...isn't...enough.

 

rct

rtc. Your question is “just truly wonder why a call to the people that made it just...isn't...enough.”

I mean, I know you’re an advanced member and I respect your input but at least consider why I am doubting Gibson’s word. I’ve went through Gibson numerous times and never question what they tell me but their information just doesn’t jive with what I have. Shouldn’t they be able to tell by a SN of 055118 that this isn’t a regular custom serial number? Yet they tell me that it is and that the SN traces back to a model LPC-SLBCH1. Regular Customs don’t have this type of serial number and Regular Customs don’t have a tailpiece that screws directly into the wood top(no metal inserts). All I’m asking here is for others opinion of weather I’m totally out in left field for not believing what they are telling me or if I have a good argument that they could are wrong. They aren’t GODs, they can be wrong, something could have been entered incorrectly. Without various opinions of what I have, I have no argument to take it and have them look at it so I can validate what I have. Isn’t that what forums are for? Helping people who are less educated? I don’t care if it’s more spectacular than what they say it is. I do However, care if they are telling me information that is incorrect and when I have pretty definitive proof that it isn’t what they tell me it is. Yet they will not explain to me the discrepancy in what the Serial Number says it is and what they tell me it is along with the fact it has a ’68 reissue mount on the tail piece. In addition, If I ever sell it, it sure would be nice to know what I’m selling so that I can answer questions that someone ask.

 

It's not as straightforward a subject as I imagined...

 

The regular Custom Shop LP Custom should have a CS prefix in front of the serial number but, having just had a quick look I've found (on-line) pictures of several other 'regular' (i.e. non reissue) LP Customs which are stamped with similar serial numbers to yours - 050328 being one example. Very curious.

Does your Custom have a 'Custom Shop' waterslide on the rear of the peghead-neck area?

 

It's hard to believe that 'The Horse's Mouth' has got it wrong but even so.......

 

I rarely disagree with rct's views but on this occasion I do.

It matters because, clearly, a Les Paul Custom '68 reissue will be worth considerably more than a regular Custom.

 

Pip.

Thanks Pip for backing me here. I feel the same way. If I want to sell it, I can’t sell it as a ’68 reissue even if I believe it is if Gibson will say that it isn’t. the ’68 Reissue is clearly worth more. It does have the ‘Custom Shop’ water slice where the neck meets the headstock. Custom across the top, shop across the bottom and Gibson through the middle.

 

It takes about two minutes to lift the pickups and see what is penciled under them.

 

If it says "LPC" you have an answer.

 

If it says "CS 68 RI" you have an answer.

 

If is says nothing you pretty much have to go with what the people that made it say it is.

 

rct

The pickups don’t have either of those but it does have something. It has the worn patent applied for sticker with a stickers that say #1 Wound By PS and #2 Wound by PS.

Edited by imunwell
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I'm sorry for the delay, I got the flu and to say the least, I wasn't up for anything but bed..

 

It was Bob and I've worked with him for years and normally don't question him but this one just doesn't add up and he won't fully explain the things that cause me to believe it's not a regular custom......Shouldn't they be able to tell by a SN of 055118 that this isn't a regular custom serial number? Yet they tell me that it is and that the SN traces back to a model LPC-SLBCH1. Regular Customs don't have this type of serial number and Regular Customs don't have a tailpiece that screws directly into the wood top(no metal inserts).

 

...It does have the 'Custom Shop' water slide where the neck meets the headstock. Custom across the top, shop across the bottom and Gibson through the middle...

Taking these points in order;

 

First-off I'm sorry to hear that you are, as your login name suggests, unwell. A Get Well Soon from here.

 

It sounds like you have a good, sensible relationship with Bob. If I were in your position I'd ask him politely to explain the various subtle differences which mark-out a reissue from the regular Custom. I've tried to check this out myself but, as you may have read earlier, didn't get anywhere with any degree of certainty. Models can change spec from year to year and the '68 Custom and reissue have both been around far too long to make spotting one from the other a simple business.What I found to be most surprising is that it's almost certain that some regular Customs don't have the CS prefix. Can't explain that one at all but there are too many out there to ignore this 'fact'(?).

 

The model code! One of the first questions I would put to Bob would be to ask if the reissues had nickel or chrome hardware. If it was always nickel then it looks like you may have a regular Custom - assuming all hardware is original - as I believe the last two letters (CH) denote Chrome Hardware. As I said in an earlier post one incontestable reissue I found had NH (nickel hardware) as the last two letters. If the reissues sometimes had chrome hardware as well then this is probably another dead end.

 

The ABR-1. Most unusual to see one on a regular Custom IMX. Again; this is something I would try to clear through talking with Bob.

 

The waterslide. I was (very!) surprised to see that the reissues also have a waterslide so one of my early 'indicators' is wholly wrong. The Custom Shop has used many different designs over the years. Ask Bob if the 2005 CS Customs of both types used the same - or differing - designs. It's a long shot but, hey, you never know!

 

Sorry I can't be of more help. If you DO get any luck through talking with Bob please do let us know.

 

Pip.

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I humbly and completely agree with everything Pippy said.

 

The first thing I would do, as others have said is to look for indicators in the pickup and control cavities.

 

I don't know if anyone has mentioned it yet but I believe that regular Customs will have a standard/short neck tenon, a historic should (I think) have a long tenon?? The '57's do for sure, just not completely sure about a '68.

Edited by Black Dog
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