ezra1 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I am just curious. But other than the pickguard on an early 60s Hummingbird, what is the difference between it and a early 60s square shouldered SJ ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 None , , , is the short straight answer. But, , , , there are of course a few buts. Some of the early Birds had maple back'n'sides and others would even have the long scale neck (never seen SJs with this) So watch out for traps and tricks - charming challenge, isn't it. . Cühl location ^ must be ideal for acoustic regeneration. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 There are no early 60 square SJs AFAIK. They showed up in 65, which was a period of rapid change at Gibson -- the HB started in 60 I think. We have a 62 HB -- that guitar I found/find to be very good. The latest SJ which made the cut is a 54, which of course is not square. I know that doesn't answer your question, but it is all I got. Best, -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Both the square Southern Jumbo and the just as square Country Western (also known as SJN) were born in 1962 - like the dignified long scale Dove. The reason a few number of Hummingbirds suddenly appeared with maple b&s and long neck was that Dove components could be used if short of hog and 24,75. Look at my avarter - a 63er right there - originally w. plastic bridge like tpbiii's also rosewood-saddled Bird. Mine got a new rosewood bridge and bridge-plate though - but kept the ceramic saddle. This operation was done before it crossed the sea and landed here in 2010 and must be praised as very well crafted. The guitar still improves. It's my sincere feeling that it took at least 7 years for the new wood to find the old guitar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpbiii Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 Both the square Southern Jumbo and the just as square Country Western (also known as SJN) were born in 1962 - like the dignified long scale Dove. The reason a few number of Hummingbirds suddenly appeared with maple b&s and long neck was that Dove components could be used if short of hog and 24,75. Look at my avarter - a 63er right there - originally w. plastic bridge like tpbiii's also rosewood-saddled Bird. Mine got a new rosewood bridge and bridge-plate though - but kept the ceramic saddle. This operation was done before it crossed the sea and landed here in 2010 and must be praised as very well crafted. The guitar still improves. It's my sincere feeling that it took at least 7 years for the new wood to find the old guitar. Interesting. I assume you are right about 62 because I did not check the history and since we have never been very interested in 60s CWs I guess I am not well informed. I came up with 65 because when I searched online for 60s SJs, all the ones I found which claimed to be 64 or earlier were slopes. It wasn't a large sample and it was the internet, so that probably explains it. Thanks for the correction. -Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
QuestionMark Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 I’m curious to learn too if there were really any differences. between the square shouldered SJ and CE of the 60s or the 79s vs the Hummingbird....other than the bling of a Hummingbird. I have a 72 square shouldered SJ-Dekuxe in natural and for years have described it as like a H-bird without the H-bird’s bling. (Note: in the 70s both went to double X bracing and at least the SJ went to block inlays rather than parellel o gram inlays. Not sure about the 70s H-bird.) QM aka “Jazzman” Jeff Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezra1 Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 Next week my lady and I are going to Memphis and Nashville. I will pose this question at Gruhn's and Carter's Enquiring Minds want to know. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Next week my lady and I are going to Memphis and Nashville. I will pose this question at Gruhn's and Carter's Enquiring Minds want to know. Exciting - he will tell you the same as us. Regarding the pick-guards you have to notice that the SJ and SJN not only skip the flora/fauna motif, but also have thinner plast. Whether this has any influence on the overall voice of the guitars is a question which has been discussed here several times. A lot - including experienced luthiers - will say yes. What about Gruhn, , , , and is there still something about the classik three we don't know. I would be more than curios about this - the first wave Hummingbird, square Southern Jumbo and Country Western - these 'modern' models are vital to me. And an unveiled secret would be sensational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezra1 Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 I heard from Wes at Gruhn's and the specs construction wise should be the same at least 62-64. In 65 the Hummingbird went to 25.5 scale. I am not certain about the SJ in 65. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezra1 Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 16 1/8" wide on SJ and 16 " on Hummingbird Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j45nick Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 16 1/8" wide on SJ and 16 " on Hummingbird Hard to know if that's a difference in standard or just a construction variance. I have two 1950 J-45's. One has a 16" lower bout, and the other one is 16 1/4". The J-45 construction drawing I have measures just under 16". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezra1 Posted March 22, 2019 Author Share Posted March 22, 2019 I wondered exactly that myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
E-minor7 Posted March 26, 2019 Share Posted March 26, 2019 Hard to know if that's a difference in standard or just a construction variance. I wondered exactly that myself. Plenty of reasons to do so. Body-wise my avatar 1963 SJ fx is totally different from my 64 CW. The latter bein' almost slope in comparison. Believe the 65 CW is something in between. Another remarkable example would be the famous Clarence White D-28/35, which is narrower than a standard Mart. dread. That is an oddball for sure. Choose to see this as an extra attraction about (some of) these oldies. They have their secrets and no one seems to tell the exact factors behind them. Nick calls it construction variance and that might point to several types of templates or. . . Well, I don't know, but that this is more than old-age-shrinkage shouldn't be questioned. We all have the perfectos soulmate somewhere out there. Frustrating or fascinating ? - up to you and your temperament. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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