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1940 Gibson L-0 Black


BluesKing777

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Continuing from recent discussions of black finish L Gibsons, what are your thoughts on this one?

 

I would prefer the mid 30s models with bigger necks, but the black ones seem to stick right out on Reverb.com.

They say the logo is 'worn off'. I didn't think I cared about logos, but I just discovered I DO! Especially for this amount of dosh.

And it says the nut is 1 23/34". What is that? Like I said, I want the honking 1 3/4" nut and wide spaced V neck, you know, classic L-0/L-00, but I am sure if I played it, I would want it! [mellow] .

 

 

 

https://reverb.com/item/19183989-gibson-l-0-black-1940-sf38

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

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You might. I know mine is my comfort zone guitar for comfort, in-between sweet/deep tone, and best if someone asks me to play a song out of the blue. My hands seem to go right to it with the wide nut and soft V. Visually, that pick guard looks cheezy on the stark black elegant shape, methinks. I'd pull the mutha', of course.

 

I can hook you up with the correct logo stencil. I'd be in at around $2400-2600.

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A 1940 L-0 should be one of the last to have the unscalloped bracing. It should be a different beast than jedzep's '31 though which would have a lighter build. Not a good or bad thing - just different. As far as nut specs and such I cannot tell you how many people I know who own 1930s L guitars and describe the nut width as a hair over or under 1 3/4" It will also still have the 2 3/8 string spread which was reduced in the 1942 LGs and last of the L-0s. With regard to price tag there does not seem to be any set in stone rule for devaluation due to overspray. It comes down to what was used and the degree to which it is applied. There was a time when Martin routinely oversprayed every guitar that came into the factory for repair so it left looking shiny and new. Late 1937 to 1942 L-0s in nice original condition routinely go in the $4K range. So I would be a bit more generous in my offer than jedzep.

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A 1940 L-0 should be one of the last to have the unscalloped bracing. It should be a different beast than jedzep's '31 though which would have a lighter build. Not a good or bad thing - just different. As far as nut specs and such I cannot tell you how many people I know who own 1930s L guitars and describe the nut width as a hair over or under 1 3/4" It will also still have the 2 3/8 string spread which was reduced in the 1942 LGs and last of the L-0s. With regard to price tag there does not seem to be any set in stone rule for devaluation due to overspray. It comes down to what was used and the degree to which it is applied. There was a time when Martin routinely oversprayed every guitar that came into the factory for repair so it left looking shiny and new. Late 1937 to 1942 L-0s in nice original condition routinely go in the $4K range. So I would be a bit more generous in my offer than jedzep.

 

 

ZW, I'm confused about your comment on un-scalloped bracing. My L-OO Legend, supposedly a direct repro of a 1937 L-OO, has scalloped bracing, a V-neck with 1 3/4" nut, and 2 3/8" string spacing at the pins. Most of the banner Gibsons (LG's and slope-J's) seem to have a 1 3/4" (or thereabouts) nut, and scalloped bracing. I don't know their string spacing.

 

When did L-series go to 1 11/16" nut and/or un-scalloped bracing?

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ZW, I'm confused about your comment on un-scalloped bracing. My L-OO Legend, supposedly a direct repro of a 1937 L-OO, has scalloped bracing, a V-neck with 1 3/4" nut, and 2 3/8" string spacing at the pins. Most of the banner Gibsons (LG's and slope-J's) seem to have a 1 3/4" (or thereabouts) nut, and scalloped bracing. I don't know their string spacing.

 

When did L-series go to 1 11/16" nut and/or un-scalloped bracing?

 

You could very well be right. Who knows with Gibson. Things could vary batch to batch. But here is a photo of the bracing in a 1936 L-00.

 

1936-Gibson-L-00-Bracing.jpg

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You could very well be right. Who knows with Gibson. Things could vary batch to batch. But here is a photo of the bracing in a 1936 L-00.

 

1936-Gibson-L-00-Bracing.jpg

 

 

Actually, in looking at my Legend again, the top bracing is similar to what you posted, but not identical to it.

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The ad for the guitar above says the 'listing has ended'.??? Somebody bought it?

 

 

 

Anyway, I was getting a copy of their shipping policy to highlight the CITES part... 3rd paragraph, very 'airy fairy' the more you look at it and look in to it. I have previously rung the Customs here and asked about the CITES restrictions and I was handed around various departments until I got a twit scientist that said the guitar would have to be dismantled and fumigated, whereas you tend to 'forget the whole thing' and go buy a new guitar off the rack....:

 

INTERNATIONAL SHIPPING

- Our international shipping rates should reflect on the item listing. Feel free to message us directly for shipping quotes on specific items or with any questions.

 

- All shipping rates are for actual transportation charges and do not include VAT, import taxes, or brokerage fees, which vary from country to country.

 

- If you order contains Rosewood, or any other CITES restricted woods, your shipment might be delayed due to Customs processing standards that CME is subject to as the shipper. All orders requiring CITES documentation must ship to the buyer's residential address. If your country requires CITES import permits, please work with your local Customs agency to obtain these permits prior to shipment.

 

- Most of our preset shipping rates are for USPS International Service. USPS is typically less expensive than UPS, but their international tracking system is not as accurate. We ship guitars via UPS Worldwide Expedited unless you request a different service. Arrival times may vary from country to country. Some large items such as bass guitars, drum kits, amplifiers, and speaker cabinets may not be eligible for shipping via USPS due to size limitations. Some brands cannot be shipped internationally due to manufacturer restrictions. Feel free to message us with any questions.

 

- We are unable to ship to Russia due to the current trade sanctions.

 

 

 

Anyway, I am not going through all the shemozzle above if it doesn't have a logo and may not even be legit Gibbie. But they are not exactly rare, L0/00s, and my luthier can fix anything that isn't a home repair easily and expensively!

 

And my 37 is straight braced, if I remember correctly. Must have another look.

 

 

Something happened in the guitar playing world around 1939 - 1940 that encouraged both Gibson and Martin to change from 1 3/4" nuts to 1 11/16" on everything. Apart from World Wars, and I can't see how that would make the nut narrowing happen, what would make them rejig everything so urgently? It would have to be a superstar guitarist?

 

BluesKing777.

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Figure this one.

I recently bought a Japanese guitar with ebony fretboard from a Canadian dealer going to the US. No issues, no taxes, no tariffs, no delays.

 

 

Unfair, unfair!

 

 

The Japanese aren't afraid of asking way too much for their used guitars on Ebay, though.

 

 

For non-US buyers, another thing to consider is the customs broking and associated paperwork.........oh what fun that can be! In the paragraph I copied above from CME, they say they use USPS or UPS and you have to organise your own customs broking. I don't know about other countries, but Fedex deliveries to me in Australia includes their customs broking. Painful enough waiting for them to do it! Do it yourself, oh yeah, let's have a meltdown...

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

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Unfair, unfair!

 

 

The Japanese aren't afraid of asking way too much for their used guitars on Ebay, though.

 

 

For non-US buyers, another thing to consider is the customs broking and associated paperwork.........oh what fun that can be! In the paragraph I copied above from CME, they say they use USPS or UPS and you have to organise your own customs broking. I don't know about other countries, but Fedex deliveries to me in Australia includes their customs broking. Painful enough waiting for them to do it! Do it yourself, oh yeah, let's have a meltdown...

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

 

I had another one I bought from the UK. A Kristofferson SJ. I made sure to instruct the seller to mark the customs paperwork that the origin of the item was USA, which is correct. When DHL received it locally they tried to collect some kind of fees. I had to contact the higher ups and bring it to their attention about the country of origin. After they consulted their experts the guitar was released with no fees due.

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I got a surprise from our friends on the northern border a few yrs back when my Oxnard, CA Guild M40 was put up in storage on a holiday wknd because the Toronto (Tundra Music) shop didn't provide country of origin papers, even though the box had Guild USA markings. This was the first new guitar I had ever purchased, and one of the first batch out of the new factory oven, Guild's updated little mahog M20. Tundra assured me they would handle and pay but 'disappeared' as Friday UPS closing time came up fast. By some quirk of fate, a border agent with moxie picked up the phone I had been ringing all afternoon and heard my case moving it along, giving me a dose of attitude in the process. This saved me 3 days storage fee, which would have killed the great deal I got on the guitar.

 

That's what I get for breaking my 'no guitar newer than 1965' rule. It was a sweet enough little instrument, however, with typical 'new wood' stiffness, but it stood out as not fitting in to the aged tone of my little grouping of old timers. It took me a few years to find a good M20 again, which sounds more like the 'chimey' Martin 0017 I once owned than my 'growly' L0, even though the build and materials are similar.

 

Best news? My GAS is in remission. I get monthly emails from the M20 seller begging me to recycle it back to him. I don't have the heart to give him the bad news.

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I got a surprise from our friends on the northern border a few yrs back when my Oxnard, CA Guild M40 was put up in storage on a holiday wknd because the Toronto (Tundra Music) shop didn't provide country of origin papers, even though the box had Guild USA markings. This was the first new guitar I had ever purchased, and one of the first batch out of the new factory oven, Guild's updated little mahog M20. Tundra assured me they would handle and pay but 'disappeared' as Friday UPS closing time came up fast. By some quirk of fate, a border agent with moxie picked up the phone I had been ringing all afternoon and heard my case moving it along, giving me a dose of attitude in the process. This saved me 3 days storage fee, which would have killed the great deal I got on the guitar.

 

That's what I get for breaking my 'no guitar newer than 1965' rule. It was a sweet enough little instrument, however, with typical 'new wood' stiffness, but it stood out as not fitting in to the aged tone of my little grouping of old timers. It took me a few years to find a good M20 again, which sounds more like the 'chimey' Martin 0017 I once owned than my 'growly' L0, even though the build and materials are similar.

 

Best news? My GAS is in remission. I get monthly emails from the M20 seller begging me to recycle it back to him. I don't have the heart to give him the bad news.

 

 

So you’re saying: “Only A Gibson Is Good Enough, But If It Ain’t From Kalamazoo, It Just Won’t Do!”

 

 

BluesKing777.

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Thing is if BK wants a mid-1930s L-00 then he should bide his time. Gibson made a ton of them and more than enough seem to have survived. That is cheap done right. Accept no substitutes.

 

The thing that concerns me about these black guitars, as appealing as they are, is that it is relatively easy to hide a multitude of sins, either from 80 years ago, or from yesterday.

 

Somewhere out there, you will find one of these in really good condition. I looked for year, and got so discouraged at the issues I found that it was a no-brainer for me to buy an L-OO Legend when it fell into my lap at a price that was better than that of the roughest vintage examples I found. And there were plenty of those to look at.

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The Legend L-00 is even rarer on Reverb.com than the black numbers I have been looking at!

 

 

https://reverb.com/item/15435476-gibson-1937-l-00-legend-2012-vintage-sunburst

 

 

I could get it painted black! :unsure:

 

 

Yeah, I already have my 37 'custom hybrid' L-0 and don't want to wait 3 months for CITES paperwork for another one that will sit at the luthier's rack for 6 -12 months. But I don't want to pay for 'mint', so a 'fair player to good player' with 'cosmetic issues and structurally sound' will nail it.....time it gets here, the same money could get a nice perfect Lowden, so...it will need to sound better than it looks, I guess. How's that? (don't have enough money yet, sellers!)

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

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The thing that concerns me about these black guitars, as appealing as they are, is that it is relatively easy to hide a multitude of sins, either from 80 years ago, or from yesterday.

 

 

 

If I won some lotto, but it would probably cost less than the real deal black L-0, I could get my luthier to make 2 exact copies finished in black and firestripe, of the L-0....one in mahogany/sitka/rosewood fretboard etc, and the other from packing crates and shiplap and an old table leg or something for a neck. Everyone would listen to both and most wouldn't be able to tell the diff, while some would say the packing crate model sounded exactly like their 37.......

 

 

BluesKing777.

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Haha. Now that's funny and maybe true. A couple years back I got an online relationship going with a Texas woman that had her Dad's original condition black with white guard 30's L00, just like the one Tom owned and was selling. She tried to sell it here and I PM'd her right off to get and give info. I wanted the guitar but I knew I wasn't going to pony up the value it could draw and she desperately needed the money for a roof. I hooked her up with a guy I knew that bought my Martin 5-15 parlor and had been looking for one. Think he gave her $6100. I doubt a shiplap and barn board guitar would measure up to anyone.

 

Here's a pic.

 

 

 

 

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Haha. Now that's funny and maybe true. A couple years back I got an online relationship going with a Texas woman that had her Dad's original condition black with white guard 30's L00, just like the one Tom owned and was selling. She tried to sell it here and I PM'd her right off to get and give info. I wanted the guitar but I knew I wasn't going to pony up the value it could draw and she desperately needed the money for a roof. I hooked her up with a guy I knew that bought my Martin 5-15 parlor and had been looking for one. Think he gave her $6100. I doubt a shiplap and barn board guitar would measure up to anyone.

 

Here's a pic.

 

 

 

 

 

That would do! Somebody was chewing on the top a bit.

 

Though I think the white pickguarders sound different than the firestripers....my Waterloo copy of that model has the white pickguard and it needs to go - there is a purely evil football team here in black and white stripes.... [scared] and I have been asked if I barrack for them [cursing] . (The story is that the police like it when they play a home game cos they know where all the supporters are and have a quiet afternoon.) True!

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

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Yeah, and that pick guard bothers me, as all do. I have saved one from a 'Tux' model I owned back when. I keep it in a thick Webster's dictionary from my wife's parent's house. You know...Eisenhower era stuff. Every once in a while I try to market it but I mostly forget it's in the dang book.

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Yeah, and that pick guard bothers me, as all do. I have saved one from a 'Tux' model I owned back when. I keep it in a thick Webster's dictionary from my wife's parent's house. You know...Eisenhower era stuff. Every once in a while I try to market it but I mostly forget it's in the dang book.

 

 

What do you think is under the white thing? Black or bare wood?

 

I bought this Waterloo X braced after watching the Norms Rare Guitars video with the 32 they had a couple of years ago. The difference is that the Waterloo was in 2 shops! In 4 styles...The top broke in the afternoon I got it, finish is so thin. We assume the 32 had (thick) gloss finish originally?

 

 

R76hh3ll.jpg

 

 

 

BluesKing777.

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