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If Fender Buys Gibson

Archer993

By Archer993
in Gibson USA

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Archer993

Archer993

Posted
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I was in a local used guitar shop yesterday chatting with the owner. He is closing this weekend after 11 years in business (siting the Internet (eBay) as a main reason for business falling off). We talked about a lot of things, one being Fender's continued interest in buying Gibson.

 

If Fender were to buy Gibson they would have a near monopoly on the musical instrument business. I would expect there would be changes at Gibson. I think you would see better marketing as, IMHO, Fender does a much better job of it. I wonder if Fender people would pay more attention to quality control in all aspects of production, including simple things, like more carefully checking an instrument before it is shipped and including model specific manuals on guitars like the ES-339 and Jimmy Page Custom.

 

Who knows -- it could be a good thing or a bad thing. Maybe pre Fender Gibsons would be the ONLY ones we all wanted?

 

Frankly I don't want a Fender guitar yet. I pick up a new Tele or a Strat and it just can't compare in any way to an LP Standard. But, that's just my subjective opinion.

 

What do you guys think?

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ksdaddy

ksdaddy

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I got my Telecaster new in 1978, back in the evil CBS days. I watched Fender die a slow painful death in the next few years, in spite of the Dan Smith Era (too little, too late) and watched the Strat be raped and destroyed in 1983 with the removal of the football plate and the free-flyte junk tremolo. Once US production ceased in 1984 or so, I figured the entire era had passed, never to return. I was elated when Fender USA sprang forth in 1987 and the American Standards came to be. Now THIS is what Fender is all about, I said.

 

But in the ensuing years I have watched Fender turn into WalMart. They seem to want to own every music related company out there, at least as much as Henry does.

 

I do not trust Fender. After what they did to Guild, I would expect them to do the same with Gibson.

 

I do not trust Fender. When they say "Made in USA" that likely means that someone fifty feet on the US side of the border tightened the strap buttons and wiped the dust off it.

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TheLiveSoundGuy

TheLiveSoundGuy

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First off, considering the internet has been around for about the same amount of time that this "local shop" has been in business, I would say the internet has been a competitor since the 1st day he opened his doors. I'm not so sure that's a valid reason for their closing. I would be more apt to blame the likes of Guitar Center, Sam Ash, and other "Walmart" big inventory type of stores. Or could just be there was not enough buying in that market. Or could be they were just not that good at doing business. Too many variables to guess considering I don't know the store, or the market.

 

Secondly, if Fender were to buy Gibson, (which I don't believe Henry would ever sell, but $ does talk, and it is after all, business,) then I would say you are correct in thinking there would be a "Pre-Fender" market for Gibsons.

Just as there is a "Pre-CBS" market for Fenders.

There are many collectors out there now, some of which will only buy "Pre-Norlin" Gibsons, and some of which will only buy "Norlin" era Gibsons. Personally, if Fender does end up with it, I'll probably be done with Gibby's, but I would have to see which direction they go with it first.

 

Third assuming Fender does get it, I wouldn't consider it a Monopoly by any means. It would be one huge chunk of the market, but not a monopoly. Taylor, and C.F. Martin & Co., are not exactly what I would call boutique guitar makers.

 

All that being said, I wouldn't want Fender to get it either. But in the end, as long as it still says "Gibson" on the headstock, and the materials, quality, support, and craftsmanship is still there, I'll probably still support them just the same way I did before Norlin, and after Norlin, when Henry bought it. It's not so much "who" owns it, it's the product produced.

 

There is something about that Gibson logo though.

 

Because "Only A Gibson Is Good Enough"

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matiac

matiac

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Welp, it would make what we already have all the better, cuz as was stated, look what they did to Guild, and would create one HELL of a market for "Pre-Fender Gibsons". Not to mention the fact it would be a REALLY STUPID THING FOR THE POWERS THAT BE AT GIBSON TO DO.

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Archer993

Archer993

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Hey LiveTheLiveSoundGuy

 

"First off, considering the internet has been around for about the same amount of time that this "local shop" has been in business, I would say the internet has been a competitor since the 1st day he opened his doors. I'm not so sure that's a valid reason for their closing. I would be more apt to blame the likes of Guitar Center, Sam Ash, and other "Walmart" big inventory type of stores. Or could just be there was not enough buying in that market. Or could be they were just not that good at doing business. Too many variables to guess considering I don't know the store, or the market."

 

Finally!!! a discussion that I actually know something about - being in corporate marketing for 20+ years ;-)

The dealer I referenced only deals in used and vintage.

The internet has gathered massive momentum in the past 11 years. Massive momentum. So 11 years ago it wasn't an issue. eBay wasn't an issue. The internet and eBay became a issue, little by little. Now it's an unstoppable monster - for good and for bad.

Our closest Guitar Center is an hour plus away. But of course there is Guitar Center phone and internet order. But again, the dealer dealt in used and vintage.

 

I think the internet and the Home Depots and Wallmart and eBay will continue to devastate the landscape of small business owners throughout the world. But now I digress.

 

I also think that Martin and Taylor don't account for a significant volume if you consider electric guitars. An antitrust issue may arise if Fender buys Gibson and its related companies. There will be a formula for "percentage of the market" that someone might know here. Fender would have a MASSIVE chunk of the industry. It would be THE giant.

 

Anyway, I sure hope it never happens because it would send the price of used Gibsons up and force me to buy a PRS as well.

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TheLiveSoundGuy

TheLiveSoundGuy

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All good points. Being a mostly acoustic player, my mindset doesn't default to the electric guitar market.

That does narrow it down with the exception of PRS and the Japanese manufacturers.

 

I can't really speak as to the store closing. I originally hail from NW Michigan, and I know the market there for musical instruments was non-existent at best. I would suspect that vintage instruments would do better in larger markets.

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Gibson CS

Gibson CS

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Guys, the only thing even a bit the same about a Gibson and a Fender is 6 strings.

They are two different animals. One cant do what the other can do...not very well anyway.

 

Single coil pups vs Humbuckers? They each serve a purpose. I have both.

My SRV Strat, my Malmsteen Strat, and my Les Paul.

The Malmsteen has stacked single coils, so its basically a bucker in disguise.

 

For blues that you could die for, you go Stratocaster. For classic rock with balls you

go Les Paul. Sure, you can interchange, but IMHO....Somethings missing.

Its a tried and true formula.

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TheLiveSoundGuy

TheLiveSoundGuy

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All of this is just theory and conjecture in the first place. The "what if" scenarios are endless.

 

Let's speculate for second that Fender does buy Gibson. Who says anything has to change other than the ownership?

 

They could keep the same vendors, craftspeople, and guitar building process as Gibson has now, the only thing that really would have to change would be the names on the ownership papers.

 

I don't think for a second that is what they would do, but it's possible.

 

 

I think this topic is going to be one of the more active topics on this board.

So has anyone seen anything official, or in print that either of the two companies are even considering this?

Right now it seems to be no more than a rumor started by a store owner who couldn't make his business model work.

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Archer993

Archer993

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Kaman Aerospace, located in my back yard, owned Ovation guitars. Fender bought Ovation. Maybe a high up executive at Kaman may have said something to someone about Fender's interest in trying to acquire Gibson. Guys at this level usually don't make silly statements. Time will tell.

 

That aside, if you were CEO of Fender of why wouldn't you want to acquire Gibson? It's a profitable company and arguably the crown jewel of the musical instrument industry. The forecast for the sale of US made musical instruments is very strong - especially in foreign markets and especially due to the weak US dollar.

 

Gibson instruments commands a tremendous customer loyalty. Look at us! We're all crazy for their product. We can't stop. Gibson guitars are like a drug addiction. It's not like a lawnmower or snow blower or table saw or SonicCare toothbrush where one is enough. We want 2 or 20 Les Pauls.

 

Anyway, I hope Fender never acquires Gibson because I believe it is a scenario where the consumer will get less and not more at the end of the day.

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TheLiveSoundGuy

TheLiveSoundGuy

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Anyway' date=' I hope Fender never acquires Gibson because I believe it is a scenario where the consumer will get less and not more at the end of the day.[/quote']

I couldn't agree more.

 

Gibson guitars are like a drug addiction.

Truer words were never spoken!

 

Kaman Aerospace' date=' located in my back yard' date=' owned Ovation guitars. Fender bought Ovation.[/quote'']

I've owned early Kaman Ovations. I've not played them since Fender bought them. IMO, They probably still build a good sounding, and playing product. (Ovation mind you, not Celebrity)

 

{snip}if you were CEO of Fender of why wouldn't you want to acquire Gibson? It's a profitable company {snip}

Another way to see this is' date=' "Why wouldn't [i']Gibson [/i]want to buy and own Fender? It's a profitable company, granted they are not Gibson's but they have been a workhorse in the music industry for years. If we at Gibson were to buy Fender, now THAT would be a powerhouse. A force to be reckoned with!

 

I'm just sayin'...

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Tim Plains

Tim Plains

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Hypothetically speaking here of course.

 

Fender should buy Gibson. So they can cut costs and produce guitars that will be inferior to the current Gibsons...for one reason...

 

So you and I can find the people that complained about Gibson quality all these years and tell them to

SHUT THE HELL UP!

 

...but then again on the flip side.

 

Fender may make a better Les Paul,

our real Gibsons would become less desirable than a Fender Squire,

we'd all end up buying new Fender-Gibson Les Pauls (probably renamed to the 'Fender Clarence Leonidas' after the founding father),

and we'd all rant and rave about how incredible our new Leos are on the official Fender-Gibson forum.

 

...nah, that's never going to happen.

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TheLiveSoundGuy

TheLiveSoundGuy

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...but then again on the flip side.

 

Fender may make a better Les Paul' date='

our real Gibsons would become less desirable than a Fender Squire,

we'd all end up buying new Fender-Gibson Les Pauls (probably renamed to the 'Fender Clarence Leonidas' after the founding father),

and we'd all rant and rave about how incredible our new Leos are on the official Fender-Gibson forum.

 

...nah, that's never going to happen.[/quote']

 

 

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rjay777

rjay777

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I just don't know if I could see myself buying a 'Fenson Les Paulacaster'.

 

I dunno guys, if it ultimately revives the near-demise of the state-of-Gibbys, maybe Fender's the ideal company to

get them back on track. Hard to swallow that idea, but we shall see. Like some other guys said, as long as it still says Gibson on the headstock, and built by the real Gibson crew, it's still genuine. If that's not the case.......Good night Irene.

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Silverbursted

Silverbursted

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I agree with Archer993. At this level in corporate America, it does not matter what the wigit is. IT IS A PRODUCT. The only reason Fender would consider buying Gibson is for the name. They know that the product market is there and that equals $$$.

If a profit margin can be increased by a dollar a copy by cutting back on anything, they will keep their shareholders happy, and thats what it is all about. We are on the wrong end of this equation, we are the "End users", Gibson/Fender gets paid by the retail market. They don't really care if guitars are flying off the shelf of Guitar Center or not, that is the retailers problem; hence the problem of your mom and pop shop. I hate to be a nay sayer, and I know we would all like to think that Gibson produces a product because they really care about making a product with high quality and workmanship, but it just boils down to a wigit formula that keeps the Gibson shareholders happy.

 

Well thats my 2 cents worth.

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