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57 Classic - Year of introduction?

#1 User is offline   joegold 

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 11:45 AM

Hi

Is there anybody out here who can tell me for sure what year the 57 Classic was first introduced by Gibson?

I have a 1990 ES-175 and I'm wondering if this guitar has 57 Classics in it or the previous pickup designed in the Norlin years.

Somewhere, I'm not sure where, i heard that the 57 Classics were introduced in 1990 and that some 1990 model guitars have them and some don't.

Again, I'm looking for someone (from Gibson?) who knows for sure.


Thanks.

#2 User is offline   Blackie 

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 11:54 AM

Pull one of the pups and look at the back....oh and welcome to the forum

#3 User is offline   joegold 

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 12:09 PM

Quote

Pull one of the pups and look at the back....oh and welcome to the forum


I've done that.
They don't have the little "Patent Applied For" sticker that the 57 Classics I've bought have on them.
All there is is a patent number engraved in the metal.
"Pat # 2737842"

#4 User is offline   joegold 

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 12:11 PM

Quote

I've done that.
They don't have the little "Patent Applied For" sticker that the 57 Classics I've bought have on them.
All there is is a patent number engraved in the metal.
"Pat # 2737842"


Also...

I've tested the DC resistance of Several 57 Classics i own which always have come out to around 8k while these pups are around 7.09k, if that means anything.

#5 User is offline   Blackie 

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 12:25 PM

Those pickups have been used in a lot of Gibsons from at least 30 years ago

#6 User is offline   joegold 

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 12:41 PM

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Those pickups have been used in a lot of Gibsons from at least 30 years ago


Not sure what you're saying.

Do you think that the pups in my 175 are 57 Classics or not?
Either way, why do you think that?

#7 User is offline   tazzboy 

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 12:48 PM

http://www2.gibson.c...5/Features.aspx
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#8 User is offline   joegold 

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 12:58 PM

Quote



Thanks. But how is that relevant?

#9 User is offline   tazzboy 

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 02:24 PM

Ask if your ES 175 had the 57 Classic and posted the link showing that they do.
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#10 User is offline   Blackie 

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 02:31 PM

I think yours are norlin era

#11 User is offline   tazzboy 

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 02:46 PM

No I don't think so. The 57 pickups replace Tim Shaw PAF and Bill Lawerence (when he work for Gibson) Cause I read article by Tom Holmes who
January 2009 Tone Quest interview

Whatever data you were looking at, the differences
were stark?


Extremely so. In my shop, I completed the necessary draw dies and stamped out my first PAF reproduction
covers. At this same time, I was working at Gibson as a consultant. I worked on problems in production by building tooling and helping Bill Lawrence get the new Gibson circuit board pickup into production. Bill Lawrence and Jim
Hutchins (head of Gibson Archtops) used me for various other projects. Along, with my 42 gauge enamel wire, I took my new reproduction covers to Gibson where the first PAF prototypes were assembled. This was the birth of the 57 Classic. The pickups made the guitar look like an old Les Paul and from what I was told, it sounded a lot like one. I believe there were about five of these early pickup prototypes made, four went into guitars and I have the fifth one in my collection.

http://docs.google.c...jZjZhMGI4&hl=en
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#12 User is offline   Blackie 

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 03:29 PM

Here are some from 81 which is one of the years Norlin owned Gibson.

Neck pickup reads: 7.44 k
Bridge pickup reads: 7.67 k
Pat no: 2737842
Date stamp: 1981
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#13 User is offline   joegold 

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 04:57 PM

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Ask if your ES 175 had the 57 Classic and posted the link showing that they do.


But the info at that link says nothing about the year when Gibson introduced the 57 Classic or when they started using it on the ES-175.

#14 User is offline   joegold 

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 04:58 PM

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I think yours are norlin era


I think so too.

#15 User is offline   joegold 

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Posted 23 October 2009 - 05:23 PM

Quote

Here are some from 81 which is one of the years Norlin owned Gibson.
Neck pickup reads: 7.44 k
Bridge pickup reads: 7.67 k
Pat no: 2737842
Date stamp: 1981
Posted Image
Posted Image


That's the engraved patent # on my 175's stock pickups.
But my pickups have silver coloured screw-heads with a slightly larger head than the brass screw-heads in your picture. And mine have no date stamp.
The 57 Classics have brass coloured screw-heads too, but no engraved patent #. No date stamp either.
Hmm.

At any rate...
I just bought another 57 Classic and installed it in the neck position of my 175; and unless I'm having audio hallucinations it sounds a lot better now.

I had actually taken out all of the original electronics when I first bought this guitar (in 2007) and put in two 57 Classics and my own pots, switch, jack, etc. But it never sounded as good as it does tonight. [I kept the original wiring harness in tact (pickups, pots, switch, jack, tail-piece ground, etc.) and just removed it all because I thought it might affect the re-sale price if I decided to sell the guitar.]
A couple of months ago I decided that it wasn't working out for me, decided to sell, and put the original electronics back in.
But I wasn't ready to not have a 175 again, I guess. Finding another blond with mahogany back and sides would be next to impossible and/or really expensive.
Meanwhile, a local store has let me take a 2009 all-maple model home to A/B it with mine. And mine just sounded better acoustically but worse when amplified. So I thought I'd give the 57 Classic (my favourite pup for jazz for several years now) a whirl again.
But this time I just clipped the wires of the stock pup and I'm using the original pots and wiring harness. And this time it seems to sound way better to me.

So, I'm either completely neurotic, or I did something sub-par with the wiring when I used my own wiring harness, or my previous 57 Classic was sub-par.
I had a Gibson rep tell me back then that the ES-175s used a 300k linear vol pot and a 500k audio tone pot. But I never liked the sound of 300k vol pots when I tried them, and linear pots just suck for vol or for tone IMO, so I was using 500k pots for both vol and tone. I never really believed that rep. But, maybe the stock vol pot really is 300k and that's why I'm getting the darker sound now, which is what I was after. But there's no way that it's a linear taper pot.

I hope I don't wake up hating it tomorrow.
I can't stand working on archtop electronics. Too much wasted dental floss. :-)

Thanks for contributing to both of you.

#16 User is offline   tazzboy 

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 10:05 AM

Quote

Here are some from 81 which is one of the years Norlin owned Gibson.

Neck pickup reads: 7.44 k
Bridge pickup reads: 7.67 k
Pat no: 2737842
Date stamp: 1981
Posted Image
Posted Image









Yeah yours must be the tim shaw paf pickups.
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#17 User is offline   tazzboy 

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Posted 24 October 2009 - 10:06 AM

Quote

That's the engraved patent # on my 175's stock pickups.
But my pickups have silver coloured screw-heads with a slightly larger head than the brass screw-heads in your picture. And mine have no date stamp.
The 57 Classics have brass coloured screw-heads too, but no engraved patent #. No date stamp either.
Hmm.

At any rate...
I just bought another 57 Classic and installed it in the neck position of my 175; and unless I'm having audio hallucinations it sounds a lot better now.

I had actually taken out all of the original electronics when I first bought this guitar (in 2007) and put in two 57 Classics and my own pots, switch, jack, etc. But it never sounded as good as it does tonight. [I kept the original wiring harness in tact (pickups, pots, switch, jack, tail-piece ground, etc.) and just removed it all because I thought it might affect the re-sale price if I decided to sell the guitar.]
A couple of months ago I decided that it wasn't working out for me, decided to sell, and put the original electronics back in.
But I wasn't ready to not have a 175 again, I guess. Finding another blond with mahogany back and sides would be next to impossible and/or really expensive.
Meanwhile, a local store has let me take a 2009 all-maple model home to A/B it with mine. And mine just sounded better acoustically but worse when amplified. So I thought I'd give the 57 Classic (my favourite pup for jazz for several years now) a whirl again.
But this time I just clipped the wires of the stock pup and I'm using the original pots and wiring harness. And this time it seems to sound way better to me.

So, I'm either completely neurotic, or I did something sub-par with the wiring when I used my own wiring harness, or my previous 57 Classic was sub-par.
I had a Gibson rep tell me back then that the ES-175s used a 300k linear vol pot and a 500k audio tone pot. But I never liked the sound of 300k vol pots when I tried them, and linear pots just suck for vol or for tone IMO, so I was using 500k pots for both vol and tone. I never really believed that rep. But, maybe the stock vol pot really is 300k and that's why I'm getting the darker sound now, which is what I was after. But there's no way that it's a linear taper pot.

I hope I don't wake up hating it tomorrow.
I can't stand working on archtop electronics. Too much wasted dental floss. :-)

Thanks for contributing to both of you.



You can always change the pots to 500K audio. Just make sure you get the ones that are 10% tolerance.
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