Taylor Player Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 I have an old 60's or 70's SG copy from Japan. I should start by saying, this thing has seen plenty of use and needed a bunch of cleaning and tweeking and will need more adjustment to be really playable. I can say that the pickups do sound really good even though I have no clue what they are. The guy I got it from couldn't remember what the guy he got it from said they were, but apparently they were likely worth more than the guitar was when new. One weird thing is that each pickup works great in position but when I switch to the middle position it works like a Kill switch and there is no output from the pickups. I assume that can be fixed with some wiring work? Also, the fretboard appears to be Brazillian Rosewood as it matches the Braz board on my 1964 Gibson LG1 acoustic exactly. Has anyone got any idea how someone can attempt to date a guitar like this or is it pretty much impossible? Also, is there a way to find out what the pickups are? Sorry for the (most likely) dumb questions, but as an acoustic player for 30+ years, I never really got into electric much but over the last year or so, I have been having some fun with them. Any information or suggestions would be greatly appreciated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 You could take the pups out and look at the back, also look in the contro cavity. You might find a date on something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted November 13, 2009 Author Share Posted November 13, 2009 Thanks Blackie.... Is there anything I should watch out for if I remove the pickups just to see what is written on them? To remove them, do you just unscrew the pickup ring holder? What would I be looking for inside the control cavity? I have heard that pots are dated, but where do you look? Thanks.... Also.... sorry about the crappy photos, they are from the last owner, I still have to take some of my own since cleaning it up yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
65 Casino Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 Great catch on that guitar. I have my old 60's Barth (Fender Strat wannabe) and it was in it's cardboard velour case in the basement for about 6 years now. I took it out and the nut fell off in my hand (strings removed long ago.) As to what to look out for when taking one apart to check for dates, makes and the like? Really old can mean really fragile in some instances. Be careful not to strip any screw heads as some may be really tight. Upon removing my pick guard I found routing holes with cobb webs - no spider though. That was interesting. Upon removing the pick up and tone controls I found a wire was unattached. Not sure if I did it or it was already that way. There was also some white chalky stuff, maybe a type of mold I suspect. I also found corroded springs on the ceramic pick up that seemed lifeless until I pinched them. I spent a few minutes looking for it in the carpet. Overall I discovered it appears to be a plywood guitar worth about the $25 dollars or so Dad/Mom paid for it back then, but with a really nice cherry burst finish. Bolt on neck with a stripped screw that makes it almost impossible to remove. When I look at it I still get that same feeling I had at age 10 I think it was. Certainly going to play around and make it a project guitar just to hear it again through a decent amp. I might add a wrap around tailpiece and new bridge or look around for a period correct Fender type tailpiece, new nut and tuners. The tuners were crap and were hard to turn back then being open gear type. No dates inside other than it was hanging on the wall when I was 10 in '65. So I know it the approximate age! Bottomline - go for it! Just be aware and put everything you take off in a secure place so you can put it back together! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dickey Posted November 13, 2009 Share Posted November 13, 2009 what a coincidence--my 2nd electric was a Barth--looked a little like a reverse Mosrite. Cost $50 in a local record shop in the mid '60's. had vibrato,toroise shell pickguard,sunburst finish,the worst tuners ever, & chipboard case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted November 14, 2009 Author Share Posted November 14, 2009 I haven't pulled the pickups out yet (a bit nervous about doing that) but I did check in the control cavity and after blowing away the dust, all I could find that my old eyes can read is 500K on all four of the pots. There appears to be something stamped in the metal end of the switch control, but too many wires in the way and I didn't want to try and move them around too much. The soldering job looks kind of messy but both pickups are working well. Still the only weird part is that I get nothing with the pickup switch in the middle position. I would think that that position would be for both pickups to work together. Maybe it was wired as a kill switch? (Not even sure why you would want a kill switch though.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted November 16, 2009 Share Posted November 16, 2009 Can you post a nice close up of the switch contacts / connections ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 Can you post a nice close up of the switch contacts / connections ? Hi I will try and take some of the control cavity and pull the pickups out to take a look at the bottom of them tonight or tomorrow and post the photos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted November 16, 2009 Author Share Posted November 16, 2009 OK... Got some photos of the control cavity and I pulled the neck pup out to get a shot of the back too. They both look the same when I pulled them the other day but forgot to take photos. Any idea on what kind of pickups they are? (See photos) Pots... Switch.... Pickup... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Here is an additional photo of the guitar. Another thing different from a typical SG I think is that the volume controls are the two top knobs front to back and the tone knobs are the bottom two front to back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Murph Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 The kill switch is for doing Van Halen. Some people don't like both pickups running together, it's common. Great find. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted November 17, 2009 Share Posted November 17, 2009 Nice pictures. The wiring appears to be original - although one or two soldered joints look a little suspect ! The switch looks like a DPDT (double pole double throw), with only one pole used. In other words this is two switches in one, but only one of the switches is being used. One side has the soldered joints, the other side has no signs of ever being used. Normally, these switches make a straightforward connection when pushed one way or the other, but they can also be made in 2 other versions - with an 'off' central position, and an 'on' - which is handy for both pickups together. Does the switch have a clearly defined central position with a click, or snap ? If so, I would expect that it should be 'both pickups together'. There could be dirty / oxidised contacts of course. It would definitley be worth cleaning, or fitting a replacement switch to get the two pickups together. The guitar does need a setup - the saddles are not set correctly and as you say, it is very likely the nut needs attention. Sorry - I've no idea about the pickups ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted November 17, 2009 Author Share Posted November 17, 2009 Nice pictures. The wiring appears to be original - although one or two soldered joints look a little suspect ! The switch looks like a DPDT (double pole double throw)' date=' with only one pole used. In other words this is two switches in one, but only one of the switches is being used. One side has the soldered joints, the other side has no signs of ever being used. Normally, these switches make a straightforward connection when pushed one way or the other, but they can also be made in 2 other versions - with an 'off' central position, and an 'on' - which is handy for both pickups together. Does the switch have a clearly defined central position with a click, or snap ? If so, I would expect that it should be 'both pickups together'. There could be dirty / oxidised contacts of course. It would definitley be worth cleaning, or fitting a replacement switch to get the two pickups together. The guitar does need a setup - the saddles are not set correctly and as you say, it is very likely the nut needs attention. Sorry - I've no idea about the pickups ! [/quote'] Thanks for the information.... I have been looking at lots of photos of older chrome covered pickups like PAF's and others. Most look like a humbucker covered by the chrome cover and have the screws visible from the bottom or are fully enclosed but thick enough to have a humbucker pickup inside the chrome. Mine looks like just a wire coming out of a thin body. I don't see where the actual pickup would be. (Windings/pole pieces and such) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
80LPC Posted November 18, 2009 Share Posted November 18, 2009 The pickups do look thin. Some copies unfortunately had pickups that left something to be desired. You would see true humbuckers but badly made with a low output, or sometimes a single coil hiding underneath the chrome humbucker cover ! Re the setup, saddles adjusted all the way back can be a sign of a high action, or occasionally a bridge that is in the wrong place. This could be seen on some copies, and also on Gibson SGs from the '60s - supposedly a golden age of quality ! Gibson would fit large plastic washers to cover the first attempt. So, if the action is high it's a case of adjusting the neck / bridge and maybe level the frets. If the action is already low, then it's possible the bridge is indeed in the wrong place - however if you can achieve decent intonation then play on regardless of the position of the saddles. If the guitar were fitted with lighter gauge strings, obviously the saddles could be a little more central. If you want it to play well, it might be worth having a tech check it out, but the cost might be hard to justify. Might be a good project to learn how to set up electrics... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taylor Player Posted November 18, 2009 Author Share Posted November 18, 2009 Thanks for the tip on the lighter gauge strings... I think I will give that a try. I put 10's on it but if going to 9's would help with the intonation, then so be it. I don't plan on putting much money, if any, into this guitar. I think I may pick up some knowlege messing with things myself and maybe do upgrades as I can along the line. Funny, but hey, I have liked the tone plenty and it is significantly different that what I get from my Texas Specials equipped Strat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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