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'65 Firebird V-12 were there more than 4 made?


ladyscaglyc

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Admin,

It's taken over 40 years trying to figure out how many '65 Firebird V-12s were made?

Even Duchossoir's references can't help narrow it down.

Through The Forum , there's myself, another in France and one other who owned one

while in the States....That's to say there are only 2 that we can actually put our hands on.

Any info would be greatly appreciated, and not that mine would ever be for sale, a relative

value would be cool.

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Tom Wheeler's book "American Guitars, an Illustrated History", Harper & Row 1982, does not designate the Firebird 12 as a "V", but states 248 Firebird 12's were shipped in 1966, and 24 were shipped in 1967. That would be a total of 272.

 

It shows no other shipments from the factory of 12 string Firebirds at any other time except '66 & '67.

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Looks like the 12 string Firebird guys are chasing each other around the forum!

The 1966 Gibson catalogue lists the 12 string 'bird as "V-12," I guess as in "vee 12" à la Ferrari, Lamborghini, Jaguar or Lincoln Zephyr...

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L5Larry,

Thanks for the info.

The info from Duchossoir's Gibson Electrics The Classic Years, Hal/Leonard 1998:

Total birds including Reverse/Non-reverse & 12s shipped in '65...FB V= 353

& FB VII=110 with a note that this included second issue non-reverse.

also the Firebird V is catergorized as having 2 PUs & a bound rosewood fingerboard w/trapezoids, ( but the bird 12 wasn't bound,

had dots and had the same 12 string head , neck and special inlay as the '65 ES-335-12...and It's stated that in '65 they only shipped

55 of the ES 12 & 12C combined.

Larry, how does that compare w/ T.Wheeler's stats?

 

BTW, obviously just tryin' to get Admins attention but it's true, to this day, only Oringo, myself and the new guy from France only

know of the existence of 3 of them.

 

Ah yes, a very rare bird.

Thanks again for the info.

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Larry' date=' how does that compare w/ T.Wheeler's stats? [/quote']

 

The numbers match exactly, but the Firebird numbers in Wheeler's book specifically do not include any 12 strings, because (according to his listings) no Firebird 12's were shipped in '65.

 

If all this information is indeed correct, that doesn't mean they didn't build some in '65, they just didn't ship out untill '66. Especially with a new model they would have wanted to build up some stock before offering them to the dealers, so it is very likely that many of those shipped in '66 have what might be considered '65 serial numbers.

 

I found two other things that might be of interest to you in another old book of mine, "The Gibson Guitar From 1950", by Ian C. Bishop, Musical New Services LTD, 1977. It states about the transition from reverse to non-reverse, "in late 1965 the range was redesigned for a 1966 release". The other thing is in the description of a picture of a 12 it states, "These are very scarce".

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L5Larry,

From all I've been able to find out too- There's no question about '65s actually hittin' the dealers in '66.

This (my understanding, too) was decided upon in Mid '65 to build the non-reverse & don't forget, the bird 12

necks are actually the 335-12 necks so makes sense that my serial would indicate '65.

The irony of the non-reverse is that the shape looks more "Jaguarish" than the original reverse.

After all the smoke & lawyers cleared...that had to really be a great send-off to Fender.

Thanks again for the great Barnes & Noble list...you know, there's always a monthly allowance for or about

guitars, and this month, instead of some mild mods on my Epi Standard, I think I'm gonna enhance the library!

BTW, have you got a way to get a backstage pass direct to ADMIN?

Love to get their take, if any, on bird 12s.

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Going non-reverse definitely made the Firebird easier to adapt to-having the body more Jaguar shaped means having the neck and bridge less thrown out to the left, and the body is a lot lighter.

On the other hand, another reason for going non-reverse must also have been to simplify construction-it must have been a lot cheaper to make the non-reverse with a set neck than the reverse with the multy-ply through neck. Also, all the non-reverse Firebirds had the same body, routing and neck (except the v12), unlike the reverse 'birds which had three different body routings, and three different neck treatments.

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I purchased the Non-reverse custom (this one HERE ) thinking I would like it since the reverse (standard) firebird was uncomfortable. After 2 days I took advantage of the dealers return policy and brought it back. I just didn't mesh with it... But i will admit, I loved the sound of the Tri-P90's in it which have at times gave me second thoughts...

 

nrFirebirdP90.jpg

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Oringo,

Your avatar looks great. Are you pursuing that bird 12 in Kansas?

LPDen,

That Firebird is still a dream for me.

-Am going to get a slab of some sorts equipped w/P-90s, someday,

and That axe would be perfect alongside my '65 Bird 12.

In the most ideal world, I think I'd prefer a Glossy nitro or lacquer white.

I'll bet the dealer didn't have her on the wall for too long.

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[quote name=ladyscaglyc

LPDen' date='

That Firebird is still a dream for me.

-Am going to get a slab of some sorts equipped w/P-90s, someday,

and That axe would be perfect alongside my '65 Bird 12.

In the most ideal world, I think I'd prefer a Glossy nitro or lacquer white.

I'll bet the dealer didn't have her on the wall for too long.

[/quote]

 

Personally, I think they are really great values for a custom shop model! $1499 at my local dealer. That's a steal as far as I am concerned...

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Hey Vin,

Gotta admit, it's very tempting, but I don't think I'm gonna go for it. I've got another guitar project on the workbench, and I think I'm going stop with the 2 'birds for now.

Between them and the LAG I bought my son (LAG is sort of a French PRS, and the model I got my son is a basically inspired by a double cutaway LP-mahogany body, set neck, 2 full-size splittable HB's), we've got a good selection of Gibson sounds, but back when I was playing, I hot-rodded a Silvertone/Harmony with an early Tele pickup, and that is a sound I'd like to have again. So, I've got a Stewmac maple through neck, some old mahogany for the wings, and I'll be putting in some kind of Tele/Broadcaster single coil at the bridge. I'm still trying to decide what I'm going to put in at the neck, but I'm leaning towards a P-90.

(Actually, that poor Silvertone was my first electric, and it got all kinds of Frankenstein mods, first some hot HB's, the tele bridge pickup at the neck, a homemade hum-bucker made from stacked DeArmonds,...and since it had such a wide neck, it finally finished as an 8-string bass!)

 

LPDen,

One of my local guitar stores has got one of these Custom Shop Firebirds in the window and I use any excuse possible to walk by his storefront. I played it the other day and it's first class! The shop owner was telling me, though, that Firebirds aren't easy to sell, and he's worried about how long it's gonna take to move this one.

I guess everyone agrees that Firebirds are cool to look at, and sound very good, but not everyone is crazy about playing them!

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  • 10 months later...

I know this is a old post from last year, but found what seems to be a deal. On Chicago's Craigslist someone has a '66 Firebird for sale that the seller calls a Firebird XII 12 string and the price is much less then what I saw on a modded mid '60's regular bird at the chicago vintage guitar show a week ago.. $2499 is what he's asking..

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Thanks for that info, Kevin.

That makes the total at around 6 that are known to exist.

(of course this is a limited search but come on now, if it isn't mentioned on this site,

then we've got to assume "there ain't too many others !")

That price has got to be reflective of the economy.

I can't imagine someone not realizing just how rare this bird truly is.

 

Thanks again Kev.

 

Vin

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Looks like the 12 string Firebird guys are chasing each other around the forum!

The 1966 Gibson catalogue lists the 12 string 'bird as "V-12' date='" I guess as in "vee 12" à la Ferrari, Lamborghini, Jaguar or Lincoln Zephyr... [/quote']

 

do you like Ferrari and Lamborghini ?

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  • 1 month later...

Hey Guys :

 

Well you can count five 1965 Gibson Firebird 12 Strings now. Mine is black and mint condition. I have had it for about 20 years now. Nothing like it. Its the biggest and sweetest 12 string electric giutar I have ever heard and I have been playing guitar for 46 years.

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do you like Ferrari and Lamborghini ?

 

Does anyone who is crazy about cars have the right to not "like" Ferrari or Lamborghini? I guess if you like to walk less crowded paths you could prefer something less famous and say you'd prefer a Maserati Mistral or a Lancia Flaminia Zagato to a Ferrari or a Lamborghini, but hey, the only Ferrari I can afford is about 2 inches long and would come in a paper box...

 

Rick, since you're from Bologna (one of my favorite cities in Italy) I should mention I'm nuts about old Ducatis and Lancias (Maseratis are also a bit out of my price range). One of these days I'm going to get a Flavia/2000 coupe, but only if I stop buying Firebirds...

 

I should correct what I said about the "V-12" name-if it was a marketing thing to capitalize on high performance cars, you'd have to leave Jaguar off the list since they didn't start making a v-12 until the 1970's. As far as I know, the only v-12's available in a "street-legal" car in 1966 would have been Ferraris (250, 275, 330) and the Lambo 350gt and 400gt. (The Lincoln Zephyr of course goes back the the 1930's-my Dad had one) Anyone know of any others?

 

Hey Vin, I'm sure there must still be a lot of V-12's out there. Once we got in touch on the forum and started looking around, it became clear that there are always a couple for sale between Ebay, Gbase and Craigslist. If you compare how many are up for sale compared to reverse and other non-reverse Firebirds, and take into account how many were made, I bet a fairly high proportion have survived. It was a rare guitar to begin with, and I bet the majority wound up in the hands of guitarists who appreciate them.

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Hey Guys :

 

Well you can count five 1965 Gibson Firebird 12 Strings now. Mine is black and mint condition. I have had it for about 20 years now. Nothing like it. Its the biggest and sweetest 12 string electric giutar I have ever heard and I have been playing guitar for 46 years.

 

Hi Robert, is your black 12 string an original finish? I know black was available as an option, but it wasn't part of the "Custom Color" catalogue, and original black Firebirds are very rare!

 

My black non-reverse was refinished, and judging from the control cavity, the truss rod cavity and the serial number which has been left unpainted, I think it was a sunburst to start with. The pickup cavities have Pelham Blue overspray, but I think this poor old 'bird has been re-finned a few times...

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Robert, I can't say mine is in the great shape like yours, but I love her just the same.

The pickguard is tired But signed by B.B. King way back when.

The finish is checked with plenty of battle scars.

I keep her in an open case when not going to a special "bigger" gig.

 

photo1.jpg[/img]

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Say, have you guys taken the screws out of your pickguards at the far ends? The original pickguards shrink like mad, and the screw holes at the top of the "loop" and at the bridge end that sticks out almost always crack. If you take out those screws, you can keep the guard intact longer.

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Hey guys : Yes, I see slight traces of that ugly bluish white overspray just inside of the back black plastic pot guard which can only be primer. I've never doubted the finish on this one as I have been playing for forty six years and have a few vintage guitars. Had this one for about twenty five years. Theres a shot of me with the guitar at www.featherwheel.com. The guitar of course looks better than I do. The finish appears to be a very, very thick layer of laquer and the black overspray makes its way into the cavities. The finish makes a perfect mirror. When you look at it for good or bad, there you are staring right back. I am well aware that while a finish may contribute something to the sound of an instrument, I don't believe that a loving natural worn finish diminishes the sound or the value. I love old and worn guitars. Got a few of those too. The pick guard is a three layer laminated plastic.The core layer is black. I'm not a luthier but when they installed the pearl Gibson logo and headstock crest they must have made allowance because the laquer is so thick and the pearl is completely flush with the finish. I don't take this guitar out. I use it sparingly to record. You can hear it on Featherwheel "Orchard of Love". The pick guard on this one hasn't yellowed or shrunk. In fact, it looks new unlike my other work horse guitars. Way back when buffalo were still roaming the plains (late sixties) I bought a " pink " six string non reverse Firebird, stunning ! Again the laquer was thick and mint. I sold it less than two years later to a british pop star at the King Edward Hotel in Toronto, and I forget who it was, duh, but it was along time ago. May have been Jimmy Page. If you are reading this I would be happy to hear from you at : rob@featherwheel.com as I have been punishing myself ever since for selling it. Anyway can't complain, got this baby.

 

cheers,

Rob

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I guess no one's really getting upset about my post-I didn't really say anything nasty about reverse 'birds. What you replied in the thread is spot on! I just wanted to get people talking about non-reverse Firebirds, kinda the Rodney Dangerfield of Gibsons, they don't get no respect! (Except from people who have one!)

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