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refret with binding

#1 User is offline   daylightrobbery 

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 08:43 PM

The season's best to you all.

Can anyone tell me how refrets on gibbys with nech binding are usually done- do they simply get rid of the plastic nub at the fret ends or cut the frets to sit perfectly between them(which I imagine is a total pain in the posterior)?

Would cutting the nubs off (that sounds very wrong!) affect the value desirability?

Thanks. Right, back to the glühwein for me- you only get a hangover if you stop!! #-o

#2 User is offline   ksdaddy 

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 09:04 PM

I've never done a refret on one with binding nubs. If I did, I suspect I'd take them off. I've refretted some with bound fingerboards and I do end up cutting each fret to fit, and undercutting the tang. Depending on how thick the binding is, I may have the frets overhang the binding. If it's thin, I won't.

I put a new board on one of my banjos about 4 years ago and I used the Gibson binding nub method. It was no fun and I won't do it again. On paper it seemed easier; just square off the fret ends, install binding, and then trim the binding. In actual application it wasn't as neat and tidy. Soft plastic isn't very forgiving to assaults by X-acto knives and files.

#3 User is offline   gearbasher 

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Posted 29 December 2009 - 11:53 PM

So far, on every refret I've seen (with binding) the nubs were removed and the ends of the frets extended over the binding. But, that doesn't mean leaving the nubs has never been done. I've just never seen it.
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#4 User is offline   daylightrobbery 

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 12:26 AM

Thanks, more or less what I thought.

I'm guessing that if you've seen it commonly then it doesn't do anything to the value etc?

I had a partial refret on my J200 and for the sake of keeping it looking the same all the way up the neck the nubs were left on. However there are slight gaps between the frets and the nubs (pretty bl**§y difficult not to have them I'd reckon) and the ends of the frets lead the string into the gap unless the note is fretted 100% spot on.
I can live with it until it needs a total refret, just wanted to know what to expect.

#5 User is offline   ksdaddy 

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 12:50 AM

I don't recommend people performing surgery they're not comfortable doing, but if that were on my bench I would dab a little acetone where the fret ends meet the binding nubs and then try to pull the gap closed with stretchy tape.

#6 User is offline   Johnt 

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 01:08 AM

[quote name='gearbasher]So far' date=' on every refret I've seen (with binding) the nubs were removed and the ends of the frets extended over the binding. But, that doesn't mean leaving the nubs has never been done. I've just never seen it.[/quote']


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#7 User is offline   gearbasher 

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 03:54 AM

This is from the "Guitar Player Repair Guide" 2nd edition (1994) by Dan Erlewine. Good book. I recommend it for anyone who wants to do their own repairs or if they just want to understand what their baby is going through when it's out for repairs. Disclaimer: I've edited out the "see diagram parts" and any spelling or punctuation errors are mine. I'm a "hunt and peck" typist.

Bound fingerboards need special attention. There is seldom a reason to remove fingerboard binding when refretting; yet it is done often, perhaps in an attempt to save the “nibs” at the fret end. It’s almost impossible to save the nibs during a fret job. It’s best to pull the frets, level the board as if the nibs weren’t there, and then fret it by either the hammer or glue-in methods. Also, removal of the binding involves much touch-up refinishing, so don’t be talked into doing it. ( A rare vintage guitar can be fretted with it’s nibs left intact, but the job is so time-consuming and delicate that you best be sitting down when your repairman gives you an estimate.)

The frets can be installed so that the crown overlaps the plastic, as with most Martins, or they may be trimmed flush to the binding and then beveled. Players getting a refret on a guitar with nibs (Gibson, Jackson, Gretsch, etc.) may prefer the fret/binding overlap, since it takes the place of the missing nibs and retains the feel. In the case of the overlap, the fret’s tang is notched and filed smooth before installation. The tang is also beveled slightly inward to avoid pushing the binding out. The fret end is then finish-beveled and rounded to the player’s taste.

I would have posted it with my first response, but I found the book just as I was about to get on the bike. Cycling comes first.
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#8 User is offline   drathbun 

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Posted 30 December 2009 - 05:17 AM

Thanks for posting that gearbasher... I ran to my Erlewine book and looked at the above explanation but didn't have the tenacity to retype it so completely as you have! [blink] Dan is the man!
Doug

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#9 User is offline   eds111 

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 01:41 AM

From the "Acoustic Guitar Owners Manual" Rick Turner says:

...Here again we run into the collector vs. player controversy. If you refret a Gibson in the Martin style, the guitar will probably feel better, and you can widen the string spacing at the nut if you want to. And while refretting bound fretboards with overlaid fret ends cost more than doing an unbound board, trying to refret a Gibson in a way that makes it look original is even more expensive - it's like inlaying each and every fret. By the way don't let anyone convince you that the binding has to be removed to refret a guitar."

My opinion: I would be ok if Gibson did away with this detail. I don't see any value added to the guitar. It complicates refretting and especially partial refrets.
Ed S

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#10 User is offline   ksdaddy 

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Posted 31 December 2009 - 02:13 AM

A big 10-4 to that, good buddy.

#11 User is offline   sfden1 

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Posted 01 January 2010 - 07:02 AM

Quote

My opinion: I would be ok if Gibson did away with this detail. I don't see any value added to the guitar. It complicates refretting and especially partial refrets.


Agreed. Our CJ-165 has this feature and personally I could do without.
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#12 User is offline   TommyK 

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Posted 05 January 2010 - 02:57 AM

This is one reason I don't like bound necks. Frets installed, hanging out over nibless binding, present a snag hazard which not only messes up a perfectly good cardigan or AD-HD tee shirt, but usually lifts the end of the fret, if not the whole gosh darn thing.

The trick to leaving the nibs, and therefore the tediousness of it all, would be to cut each indivicdual fret wire nearly to the length between the nibs, then carefully filing the ends of the fret to the exact length, minus a thousandth or so. Each fret has to be custom sized as no two are exactly the same lenght, owing to the taper from body to nut. It can be done, but in a factory setting it has to be done quickly and accurately. How does Gibson do it?
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#13 User is offline   daylightrobbery 

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 04:38 AM

Correct me if I'm wrong (and I'm sure someone could) but Gibson put the frets on the fretboard first, then the binding is added and then the extra binding between the frets is removed.

#14 User is offline   ksdaddy 

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Posted 06 January 2010 - 04:56 AM

That's the way I did the banjo. I assume that's how Gibson does it as well.

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