Armchair Bronco Posted March 28, 2010 Share Posted March 28, 2010 I recently bought a Bigsby B5 tremolo/vibrato and attached it to my SG Classic with the short-tailed Vibramate. I plan to use the Vibramate for a month or two to decide if I really like the Bigsby. If I do, I want to mount the Bigsby directly on my guitar. What's the best way to do this? My Bigsby only included a double-sided printout with very primitive installation instructions. I've seen a YouTube video for a different Bigsby that used some red thread to help with alignment, but mine didn't have this. Here's what I'm planning to do: * Align some masking tape with the left edge of the Vibramate while it's installed in my SG. The left edge is straight, so I can use this to create a masking tape guide to keep the Bigsby aligned with the nut. * Get my kids to help me place the Bigsby so that it's in the right location when I'm in my usual strumming location (with the heel of my hand resting on the bridge). * With the Bigsby in the correct location, I guess I should probably use some thread at the high and low E strings to ensure proper alignment...although the masking tape line may make this step unnecessary. * Somehow mark the screw holes on the body. I was thinking of using a fine-tipped Sharpie, and really trying to darken the entire screw hole. * Finally, I was planning to use an awl to punch a dent, drill a pilot hole, and then drill out correctly-sized holes. Not sure if I should keep the felt pads on the bottom of the Bigsby or take 'em off. Are they only there so you can test position the Bigsby without scratching the guitar's surface? After that, I'm not sure what to do about grounding my guitar. I'm told that the SG is grounded on the stoptail. I'm planning to use Graph Tech teflon coated saddles, so not sure if I can move the ground to the bridge or not. If not, how can I get the ground over to the Bigsby? Thanks in advance for any tips. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bronco Posted March 28, 2010 Author Share Posted March 28, 2010 Here's a picture of my current rig. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigKahune Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 Welcome. Dude, you've got some smokin' gear there! Nice pic. Your SG looks absolutely killer. And those tastey P90s. Gorgeous. I recommend you stick with the vibramate in case of any changes in your taste or a sale down the road. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bronco Posted March 29, 2010 Author Share Posted March 29, 2010 Well, I'm liking it too. But assuming I stick with it, it HAS TO BE MOVED. It's waaaayyy too close to the bridge for me. The only comfortable way for me to use the Bigsby with the Vibramate is to strum over the front edge of the neck pickup. I have always played in the "engine room" between both pickups; this lets me use the bridge for palm muting and lets me vary my tone from bass (neck) to treble (bridge) just by moving my hand around. If I keep the Bigsby, I'll need to re-mount it at least 1.5" to the rear. At that point I need some installation advice and some tips on how to properly ground my new setup. Hence, this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NeoConMan Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 Looks to me like you've given it all plenty of thought. I see no fault in your methods so far, save the grounding question. That I dunno. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bronco Posted March 29, 2010 Author Share Posted March 29, 2010 Looks to me like you've given it all plenty of thought. I see no fault in your methods so far' date=' save the grounding question. That I dunno.[/quote'] I got some feedback from someone who said that I would probably want to use some string in addition to the masking tape guidelines. The tape will help keep the Bigsby parallel with the nut, but I'll still need to use some string to keep the Bigsby centered over the fretboard. He also described what I need to do to properly ground things with the stoptail removed. If I keep the metal saddles on the TOM, then the fix (while non-trivial) is still do-able. But if I go with the Graph Tech teflon saddles I ordered last week, I'll have no choice but to ground the Bigsby, and that will require a lot more work. One possibility would be to run a very thin but super strong wire (maybe the width of a human hair) from the stoptail ferrule to the bigsby *ON TOP OF THE BODY*. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwness Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 I'm just going to throw this out. Shorten the handle 1.5. CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bronco Posted March 29, 2010 Author Share Posted March 29, 2010 Heh! Didn't think of that. But that's not gonna happen. I also want to decrease the break angle of the strings and get the overall height of the Bigsby lower. The only way to do that is to ditch the Vibramate and scoot the Bigsby back. But, you're definitely "thinking out of the box" with that suggestion! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackie Posted March 29, 2010 Share Posted March 29, 2010 I would cut the bar and take some pliers and bend the thing to an angle you like. Sand the edges. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bronco Posted March 30, 2010 Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 Well, like I said, I really think the Vibramate is designed (for the SG, at least) to let you try out a Bibsby using a 100% reversible mounting plate. But there are tradeoffs. 1) The Vibramate positions the Bigsby higher off the body than it would otherwise be. This affects the location of the arm (e.g. the height off the body) as well as sustain. In my case, the Vibramate is canted forwards towards the headstock. Ideally, a Bigsby would be screwed down flush against the body. You can't do this with a Vibramate. 2) The Vibramate positions the Bigsby too close to the bridge. As I said, this affects both my strumming position and the break angle against the roller bar. Cutting down the vibrato arm as suggested wouldn't address either of these issues. Nope. For me, the Vibramate is a temporary workaround that gives me time to mess around with a Bigsby. But it's not a permanent or long term solution. As someone on another site said: "Just do it! We all know that the only really good mods are mods that are NOT reversible!" :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bronco Posted March 30, 2010 Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 In the interest of completeness here are some installation instruction I received from a user on Harmony Central (thanks, sxyryan!) ===== "I'll start with the most important tip. Don't look at the strap button to find the center of the body. It might be right, it might not be. Get a ruler, and some string. 1. Decide how far back the Bigsby will be. This can be eyeballed, done by feel. I don't have my Faded with me, or I'd measure and tell you where it's comfortable for me. Mark this with some tape or a light touch with a soft pencil (or some other way I suppose). 2. Find the center of the guitar body. Mark this somehow (maybe put down some masking tape and draw lightly on that) then find the center of the Bigsby unit itself. 3. line up the Bigsby with the marks you already made. Tie a piece of string to the high e post on the Bigsby and run it up, over the bridge, over the nut, around the high e tuner. Then with the same string (if its long enough, if not, tie it off and grab another) and do the same with the low e. Lay the guitar on a flat surface and look at the alignment. The spacing of the Bigsby posts is slightly wider than your bridge, so it should have a slight fanning look to it, with the e strings a bit wider on the Bigsby than on the bridge itself. Look at the neck. Is there an equal amount of space on each string to the edge of the fretboard? I used a sharpie to mark mine. You could also use a pencil on masking tape or something more reversible if you like. 4. Once you decide the location, put the guitar away for a couple of hours, preferable overnight. Go back to the guitar after that time and check again. Is it still to your liking? Remember that after this step, it's pretty much the point of no return. 5. If it is, tap a starting hole with a sharp object, and drill starter holes. After drilling, remove the tape and mount it all up, and rock out. As my shop teacher always said, measure twice, cut/drill once. I found out last year that he cut his finger off in a building project, but I think his advice still sounds good." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bronco Posted March 30, 2010 Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 And here's what the same guy had to say about grounding issues: ===== "For the ground: As of right now your guitar is grounded fine [because I'm using the Vibramate]. Since the ground is in the stoptail and the vibramate keeps the connection to the Bigsby and strings, you're golden. If you decide to mount it permanently, you'll need to move it. Take the pickguard off, remove the bridge and bridge studs. You'll need to pull out the bridge bushing nearest to the controls. This very easy, I recommend using this method: Then get a drill, and drill from the pickup cavity into the bottom of the hole from the bridge bushing. Get a length of wire, and strip about 2 inches of wire from it. Kind of coil the bare part up, it will sit in the bottom of the cavity and feed the wire through the hole. Tap in the bushing, solder the new ground to bridge and reassemble. I personally don't think your going to need those graphtech saddles [i purchased some Graph Tech teflon coated saddles and mentioned that I was thinking about using them on my Navsville-style TOM bridge]... It's your guitar, do what you like, but they won't work with this method [because the teflon will not conduct the ground]. If you're dead set on using them, you're going to need to drill a hole from the control cavity to wherever the Bigsby is and ground the Bigsby itself. There is a lot more that could go wrong doing it that way, haha, but if you're careful it should work fine. I recommend ditching the graph techs and grounding the bridge. I have 3 Bigsby guitars now (had one more but sold it) I personally don't have any tuning issues with my standard saddles. As long as the nut and saddles aren't binding and the strings are stretched out and everything, you should be good." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dub-T-123 Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 I respect your decision about the mod but I'd personally stick with the vibramate. That's just me though. I can't wait for the vibramate that allows you to install a Gibson short tail vibrato. Those are my favorite. I have a suggestion for your grounding problem if you choose to replace saddles. Roller saddles are metal so they will preserve the grounding of the bridge and they are way better than Graph Tech saddles. The GT saddles break easily and aren't perfect at stopping binding. The roller saddles are much lower friction. Think about the ridges on your low E gliding over a wheel as opposed to grinding over the sharp little GT saddle. Even though the GT saddle is lubricated, it still has the same inherent problem of the original saddle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bronco Posted March 30, 2010 Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 I have a suggestion for your grounding problem if you choose to replace saddles. Roller saddles are metal so they will preserve the grounding of the bridge and they are way better than Graph Tech saddles. The GT saddles break easily and aren't perfect at stopping binding. The roller saddles are much lower friction. Think about the ridges on your low E gliding over a wheel as opposed to grinding over the sharp little GT saddle. Even though the GT saddle is lubricated' date=' it still has the same inherent problem of the original saddle.[/quote'] I've thought about using a roller bridge, too. StewMac sells a locking roller bridge (linky) but the advertised radius is 14". My SG has a radius of 12". StewMac also has a Schaller roller bridge (linky) but again -- it's a 14" radius bridge. I've not had any luck tracking down 12" radii roller bridges, and frankly I don't understand why all of 'em are 14" since so many folks wanting these kinds of bridge have either SG's or Les Pauls with 12" radius fretboards. Regarding the gounding issue, I'll have to do something if I ditch the Vibramate since my SG is grounded via the stoptail. I'll either have to ground the bridge (which means I can't use Graph Tech saddles) or I'll have to ground the Bigsby -- this lets me use Graph tech saddles but will require some tricky drilling or running a small ground wire from the stoptail bushing to the Bigsby on top of the body. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bronco Posted March 30, 2010 Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 Looks like GuitarFetish has a couple of roller bridges that might work: http://store.guitarfetish.com/wibrrobrlost.html http://store.guitarfetish.com/robrchplfile.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bronco Posted March 30, 2010 Author Share Posted March 30, 2010 I respect your decision about the mod but I'd personally stick with the vibramate. That's just me though. I stumbled on a great quote on another site that comes to mind: "Just do it! After all' date=' the best mods are the ones that *aren't* reversible!"[/i'] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cwness Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 Armchair I read your post again and see why you want to move it back and that makes sense. What are yo going to do with the holes from the stop tail piece or is that one of the things your trying to find out with your post? CW Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIANTRobOT420 Posted March 30, 2010 Share Posted March 30, 2010 I just used duct tape and chewing gum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bronco Posted March 31, 2010 Author Share Posted March 31, 2010 Armchair I read your post again and see why you want to move it backand that makes sense. What are yo going to do with the holes from the stop tail piece or is that one of the things your trying to find out with your post? CW Good question. Already started another thread about this on a different site. My plan is to buy a fairly thin piece of mahogany and using a circular drill bit to cut out a couple of wooden discs, maybe about the size of a penny or a nickel. I'll round the edges a bit and then drill out a recess on one side so that the discs can fit on top of a hex bolt that will screw into the stoptail bushing. My plan is to try to stain the discs with a Heritage Cherry nitro finish and then buff 'em up so that they match my SG's finish. I figure this may take a LONG, LONG time to get it right, so I'll probably start off with a dozen discs. Someone has already explained how to do this. It ain't rocket science but it does require A LOT of patience. When the discs are finished, I'll screw the hex bolt all the way down so that it's flush with the body, then mount the wooden disc so that its grain is aligned with the grain on the body, and somehow mark this orientation relative to the hex bolt. Then, I'll just glue finished disc on to the bolt. With luck, when I screw the bolt in, the finished disc should do a nice camouflage job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bronco Posted March 31, 2010 Author Share Posted March 31, 2010 I just used duct tape and chewing gum If I had an old' date=' beat-up Fender Jaguar, then I'd also consider using the Kurt Cobain duct tape approach. However, my SG Classic is too purdy for that! [img']http://www.jag-stang.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/tom1.jpg[/img] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 Good question. Already started another thread about this on a different site... Give me 12 hours and I'll upload photos of both my SG and Sheraton. My repair guy has a technique where he files down the stop bar posts and polishes them to domed knobs. Looks pretty cool. In regards to mounting the Bigbsy, you just have to do it. I don't like these Vibramate devices. I think they reek of white glove treatment & I always viewed my guitars as instruments that are meant to be played hard. Take that comment with the understanding that I have never owned a guitar worth more than or paid more for a guitar than $700. Lastly, I kept the tune-o-matic bridges on both guitars and they work fine with the Bigsby. If you play out over time the roller saddles will rust or get gummed up with sweat and stop working. IMO they aren't worth it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bronco Posted March 31, 2010 Author Share Posted March 31, 2010 Give me 12 hours and I'll upload photos of both my SG and Sheraton. My repair guy has a technique where he files down the stop bar posts and polishes them to domed knobs. Looks pretty cool. In regards to mounting the Bigbsy' date=' you just have to do it. I don't like these Vibramate devices. I think they reek of white glove treatment & I always viewed my guitars as instruments that are meant to be played hard. Take that comment with the understanding that I have never owned a guitar worth more than or paid more for a guitar than $700. Lastly, I kept the tune-o-matic bridges on both guitars and they work fine with the Bigsby. If you play out over time the roller saddles will rust or get gummed up with sweat and stop working. IMO they aren't worth it. [/quote'] Can't wait to see that. I hadn't considered doing something like that. I also agree that it's silly to avoid getting a guitar properly set up in the interest of visual aesthetics. The Vibramate has a role to play as a temporary, try-it-before-you-buy-it kind of solution to folks who may initially be on the fence about using a Bigsby. But the more I use my Bigsby and the more I like it, the more I want to mount that huge chunk of metal directly on my SG Classic in a location that's perfectly suited to *my* style of strumming and playing. "One size fits all" doesn't cut it for a tool that needs to be like a 6th finger on your strumming hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GIANTRobOT420 Posted March 31, 2010 Share Posted March 31, 2010 If I had an old' date=' beat-up Fender Jaguar, then I'd also consider using the Kurt Cobain duct tape approach. However, my SG Classic is too purdy for that![/quote'] True, tis a nice guitar. Bigsbys are the bees knees Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EVOL! Posted April 1, 2010 Share Posted April 1, 2010 Here they are. Noise maker I: SG Special Noise maker II: Sheraton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Armchair Bronco Posted April 1, 2010 Author Share Posted April 1, 2010 Here they are. Noise maker I: SG Special Schweet! Very simple fix. Those rounded posts look like they belong. How high/tall are they in mm's? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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