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1969 Gibson SG Neck oddity

#1 User is offline   superaxe63 

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Posted 01 May 2010 - 08:35 PM

Hi all, I wonder if any of you might have some input on this guitar of mine. I have had a 68-70 sg before, 68 serial no. 1970 pot date no volute guitar and it had a very different neck to this one. It has no serial no! and it never had one. Pots are 1969 with one bumble bee capacitor looks original. But most confusing is the neck joint as there is no lip where it joins the body plus the profile of the neck is very even as you go up, not like my 70 guitar which seemed to fill out. Also the headstock over lay flashes white /cream on the edges. Re Neck? I have black lighted the guitar and can find no evidence of any refinish or repairs other than the added grovers and the odd changed screw! What do you think? BTW the guitar plays and sounds fantastic. I cant seem to post the pictures into the board so i hope the links work ok. Thanks for any input in advance

http://i186.photobuc.../DSCF0001-9.jpg


http://i186.photobuc.../DSCF0008-2.jpg

http://i186.photobuc.../DSCF0006-1.jpg

http://i186.photobuc...os/DSCF0007.jpg

http://i186.photobuc.../DSCF0004-2.jpg

#2 User is offline   BigKahune 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 01:43 AM

Very strange.

Looking at the rear of the headstock, it doesn't appear to have wings. With the body routes, I'm guessing it's not a factory Gibson, but some kind of parted up Frankenstein, possibly with a headstock overlay taken from a broken neck.
13 Gibson CS Advanced Jumbo R/Spruce..O12 Gibson Southern Jumbo TV....O11 RainSong JM-3000 12
11 Martin 000-15M Elderly LE....................O10 Gibson ES-359......................o10 Rickenbacker 360/12
09 Jackson PC-1.....................................O09 Fender 52 Telecaster AVS..ooO08 Gibson SJ-200 (Colosi S/P)
08 Gibson Robot SG LTD........................oO08 Fender Am/Dlx Stratocaster.....08 Gibson Songwriter Deluxe 12-string
08 Gibson Les Paul Push Tone...................o07 Guild F412...........................O07 Taylor NS74ce
07 Epiphone Les Paul Ultra II.....................o98 Martin D-45VR.....................0097 Guild X-700 Stuart
73 Yamaha G-55A......................................65 Gibson Melody Maker..............Amps: Bogner Alchemist (Head/212Cab)
Keyboard: 06 Yamaha DGX220............................................................................o Line6 Spider Jam & Micro Spider

#3 User is offline   superaxe63 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 03:23 AM

Yes its a weird one alright, you saying the body routes look correct? I first thought it was re neck, but the fret board and inlays look correct, the neck joint looks un disturbed from the inside. could it be a proto type, or an employee guitar? Would someone go to all the bother of re necking a guitar like this back then? changed tuners? Im guessing vintage values did not exsist when or if the work was done.

#4 User is offline   kevoT 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 03:42 AM

@superaxe, didn't the employe guitar have a two on it?
Overall i think that the guitar had a really bad accident and the owner had to get the neck replaced. Hey, I'm still young a foolish so i'm probably wrong :D

#5 User is offline   BigKahune 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 05:21 AM

Quote

... you saying the body routes look correct?

I first thought it was re neck, but the fret board and inlays look correct, the neck joint looks un disturbed from the inside. could it be a proto type, or an employee guitar?


No, the routes are strange. Maybe at one time it had 3 pup setup?

Yes, the fretboard looks okay. But the neck joint, (what looks like) no wings and the headstock overlay that reveals the underlying wood around the edges is all strange.

Maybe like you say, an employee guitar, or a special run.

I hope somebody can answer.

Interesting.
13 Gibson CS Advanced Jumbo R/Spruce..O12 Gibson Southern Jumbo TV....O11 RainSong JM-3000 12
11 Martin 000-15M Elderly LE....................O10 Gibson ES-359......................o10 Rickenbacker 360/12
09 Jackson PC-1.....................................O09 Fender 52 Telecaster AVS..ooO08 Gibson SJ-200 (Colosi S/P)
08 Gibson Robot SG LTD........................oO08 Fender Am/Dlx Stratocaster.....08 Gibson Songwriter Deluxe 12-string
08 Gibson Les Paul Push Tone...................o07 Guild F412...........................O07 Taylor NS74ce
07 Epiphone Les Paul Ultra II.....................o98 Martin D-45VR.....................0097 Guild X-700 Stuart
73 Yamaha G-55A......................................65 Gibson Melody Maker..............Amps: Bogner Alchemist (Head/212Cab)
Keyboard: 06 Yamaha DGX220............................................................................o Line6 Spider Jam & Micro Spider

#6 User is offline   Dub-T-123 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 05:27 AM

Hmm. This really is strange.

I think I can see wings on the headstock but there's obviously nothing stamped on there.

The body and hardware look legit to me but then that routing has me confused too. There is a seamless finish over the routing which indicates that it was either refinished after it was routed or done as an employee guitar at the factory.

My guess is that it was modded and refinished and when the guy sanded it down for the refinishing job he sanded off the serial number and everything.

I'm not exactly sure what a neck joint from this year should look like so I can't say it looks wrong but it looks a little suspicious. I can't be sure.

It looks like a cool guitar though.
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#7 User is offline   duane v 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 05:36 AM

interesting....

My 72 SG200 doesn't have a volute.... Always thought that was kind of strange
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#8 User is offline   superaxe63 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 05:48 AM

I think the body routes for this era are correct. The SG special had 2 pup cavitys whilst the Standard had a bath route. i can confirm its a 3 piece neck, it has the wings quite narrow though. I dont think its a refinish it black lights too good and there is no sign of any sanding in the contours. I dont think its ever had a switch ring on it or a Lyre cover as the finish is uniform in colour but then again it could have i guess if kept out of the light.
Some more pictures, the last one i got of ebay for comparison on the bath route.

http://i186.photobuc...DSCF0001-10.jpg

http://i186.photobuc.../DSCF0010-1.jpg

http://i186.photobuc.../DSCF0005-3.jpg

http://i186.photobuc...dmLBLyrp5KS.jpg

Thanks again

#9 User is offline   superaxe63 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 05:52 AM

KevoT

A "2" by the serial no. indicated a "second" guitar ie one with some flaw or cosmetic issue and was sold off at discount.

#10 User is offline   Dub-T-123 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 06:09 AM

Well the frets look like they aren't original because there aren't "nibs".

Replaced frets are common on an old guitar. But this thing is weird.

I bet those humbuckers sound absolutely amazing.
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#11 User is offline   BigKahune 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 06:45 AM

Nice dig on the comparison shot Superaxe.

Yeah. The route now looks like it's legit. And looking closer I do see the thinner than usual wings.

Man, I've never seen anything like that (my guitar buying started in the late 60s).

What a puzzler.

But as Dub said - it's a cool looking SG. [blink]

I'd sure like to know more on this one.
13 Gibson CS Advanced Jumbo R/Spruce..O12 Gibson Southern Jumbo TV....O11 RainSong JM-3000 12
11 Martin 000-15M Elderly LE....................O10 Gibson ES-359......................o10 Rickenbacker 360/12
09 Jackson PC-1.....................................O09 Fender 52 Telecaster AVS..ooO08 Gibson SJ-200 (Colosi S/P)
08 Gibson Robot SG LTD........................oO08 Fender Am/Dlx Stratocaster.....08 Gibson Songwriter Deluxe 12-string
08 Gibson Les Paul Push Tone...................o07 Guild F412...........................O07 Taylor NS74ce
07 Epiphone Les Paul Ultra II.....................o98 Martin D-45VR.....................0097 Guild X-700 Stuart
73 Yamaha G-55A......................................65 Gibson Melody Maker..............Amps: Bogner Alchemist (Head/212Cab)
Keyboard: 06 Yamaha DGX220............................................................................o Line6 Spider Jam & Micro Spider

#12 User is offline   Jantha 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 07:00 AM

I ain't got nuthin' to add... but I'd like to say that's a cool SG :-"

#13 User is offline   superaxe63 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 07:55 AM

Thanks! yeah it sounds the mutts nuts too! if i get time ill do a youtube sound demo tomorrow.
Anyone know where to get a lyre cover?

#14 User is offline   SG dude 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 08:21 AM

ITS A FAKE!!!!!!!!! And i believe its on all of our best interests that you give it to me, ill get rid of it for you :-"


Just kidding man, who cares, regardless, how does it play? how does it sound? are you happy with it? and btw ive seen a few pics of late '60's SG's that are routed for 3 pups, so dont worry there either, you see em on ebay all the time. It is a beautiful looking SG and y'know, if you ever want to pass it on, y'know, incase theres too many doubts... :-"
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#15 User is offline   80LPC 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 08:53 AM

superaxe, although the neck joint might appear to be untouched, 'something' is odd about the neck because it is a different tint to the body - it is quite a bit lighter. Also, the lacquer appears to be thicker on the neck than body.

I am pretty sure the headstock has been sanded to slim it down at the upper part. The 'waist' is almost non-existent, and the edge is close to the 3rd /4th machine head posts.

Certainly unusual, but it's the sound that matters...

#16 User is offline   duane v 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 09:38 AM

I just looked at another 69 SG, and yours looks just like it.... same neck joint and small headstock.
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#17 User is offline   80LPC 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 10:28 AM

No SG Standard had the small headstock. Although headstock dimensions always varied slightly, this one has been altered.

#18 User is offline   duane v 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 11:23 AM

To me the headstock looks untouched[confused] .... What makes it look strange is the large tuner washers
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#19 User is offline   hagstrom71 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 05:33 PM

My 69' SG has the same neck joint. Not that strange

#20 User is offline   drizzt 

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Posted 02 May 2010 - 06:31 PM

It might be one of those ghost builder guitars, but like the others said - if it suits you and you are happy with the feel and the sound of it - who cares. It's a unique guitar and you own it - what's better than that!
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