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The ToneRite - Real World Testing and Results


KenRosier

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Follow Up Review

 

I just finished performing an initial ToneRite treatment on a second guitar and wanted to follow up with a review. But first I wanted to provide a little background information regarding the ToneRite controversy and the viability of its usefulness.

 

 

Background

 

One thing I didn’t previously mention is that I have an in depth background in audio engineering and acoustics. Being a musician, this has helped tremendously by giving me an understanding of electronics and acoustics and why guitars, amps, effects etc sounds and react the way they do. The acoustic principles of an acoustic guitar are very complex and unique. And then you introduce the room or environmental acoustics and elements on top of that that add a whole new level of complexity. .

 

What you may find interesting is that I actually experimented with the theory of simulating play-in on guitars in the mid ‘80s. At that time the difference between aging and play-in was not completely understood. Most stilled musicians and luthiers have long acknowledged the importance of regularly playing an instrument to achieve and maintain their optimum tone and sound otherwise know as “play-in”. Having more then one instrument (86 currently) make it difficult or impossible to achieve optimum performance. This is what drove me to exploring ways of “exercising” my guitars, ukuleles, mandolins etc to achieve optimum sound, tone and performance.

 

I came to the conclusion that the reason for this phenomenon know as “playin” which at the time was difficult to differentiate from natural aging of wood and glue joints; had to be related to the concept of vibration-dedamping, ie allowing the wood and glue joints to become flexible and resonate freely as one, thus maximizing volume, harmonics, resonance etc. Based on the understand that the natural stimulus of playing a guitar is very random and unpredictable in terms of the wave forms generated and the time-invariants; I assumed that my method of generating energy had to also be random and somewhat dynamic. I also had to come up with a way of transferring this energy into the wood of the instrument without harm to the instrument.

 

Based on my acoustics knowledge and a little research at the time, I decided to take the acoustical energy approach. I sound proofed an 8x10 room that I stocked with instruments on stands and instruments hanging on the walls. Using two large 2-way PA speakers and two subs with RCF drivers, I produced various sounds source at about 102dB to stimulate the instruments. Talk about vibration! It was substantially more energy and vibration then the ToneRite produces. I first used music and then experimented with a Loftech sweepable tone generator trying to find certain frequencies that produced the best results. I was blown away at the results that I could achieve after about 8-12 hours of stimulation. I later found that low frequencies around 30-100 hertz seemed to produce the best results in the shortest amount of time. My theory is that because this is a fixed sine wave vs random energy, the woods resonates in sync thus maximizing the vibration-dedamping process. I’m not sure if this theory is correct but it is my personal observation.

 

What I can tell you is that I was able to achieve amazing results on nearly all of my guitars mandolins and ukuleles from as little as 10 hours of exposure. I also included several electric guitars (mostly Gibson Les Pauls) in my testing trials and noted positive results with those as well. The most noteworthy positive effects included:

 

• Better string to string balance

• Fuller more refined tone

• Much richer harmonics and overtones

• Substantially increased volume

• Increased “punch” and presence

 

Based on my knowledge and past experiences, when I heard about the ToneRite, I knew before trying one that there was a great potential for benefit. In place of my acoustical approach, the ToneRite takes a mechanical engineering approach which is a much more efficient method of transferring energy to an instrument. Not to mention substantially less expensive then my previous approach. (It’s much easier on your marriage as well)

 

So far I have used the ToneRite on two guitars. The first was a Taylor NS72-CE. You can find my results of that on another thread here. The second application was my Taylor 714-CE LTD. This is a 2003 limited edition Grand Auditorium with the Taylor expression system. The back & sides are AAA Cocobolo and the top is Engelmann Spruce. This guitar was already one of the nicest playing and sweetest sounding guitars I have ever played. Because I have such a large guitar collection and because the 714 LTD is way to ornate to leave the house or studio, it has very few hours on it. In fact, the Elixir strings are two years old but sound and feel like they were just installed. I performed a 6-day ToneRite treatment using the following criteria.

 

1. The guitar placed on a floor stand

2. ToneRite at the lowest setting (see note) for 2 days

3. ToneRite at the highest setting for 3 days

4. ToneRite at the lowest setting (see note) for 1 day

 

 

NOTE: When I mention the “lowest setting” I am actually talking about a sweet spot in the lower range. What you do is start from the off position and very slowly turn the knob clockwise until you reach a point where pronounced very low frequency oscillation occurs that seems to by around 60 cycles (60Hz). This is the sweet spot that you want.

 

RESULTS

 

In a nutshell, the ToneRite took at fantastic sounding guitar, substantially improved it and made it my favorite guitar out of my entire collection including all my vintage models. The tone is vastly richer then before with the sweetest harmonics and overtones. There is a “shimmer” and “crispness” that is just to die for. The overall tone is also much richer and very well balanced. The hi-end used to be a little edgy or slightly on the brite side due to the Cocobolo and it has now tamed into a very nice warm balanced tone. There was also a slight increase in volume but more so a substantial increase in dynamics. The guitar gives you the perception that it is easier to play then before and I believe this is due to the increased dynamic range. I only play fingerstyle with this particular guitar and I find that I now tend to play much gentler then before and find it very easy to get fantastic tone and great dynamics.

 

I have to admit that I didn’t think it was possible for this great guitar to sound any better but the results are beyond convincing. It is now my favorite axe.

 

Anyway, I will next be using the ToneRite on my Martin 000-28EC Eric Clapton model. It is one of the early models (1999) without headstock wings and such, before they started cutting corners. This is a guitar that I do play regularly and I have noticed that it generally takes about 30 minutes for it to “open up” if it hasn’t been played in a few days. I will follow up on this thread with the results!

 

Happy Picking!

Ken

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Interesting post and well described results.

 

If a well played in guitar "goes quiet" when not played for a while, won't the same thing happen when you use the Tonerite?

 

If it takes a half hour for a well played in Guitar to wake up what will you do- put the Tonerite on it for a half hour before playing it?

 

It takes a half hour for me to wake up my hands and wrists. Overall I do know the phenomenon we are all talking about- that of waking up, or playing in, the idea that things improve in short order , and over the long haul by playing, but that the same instruments can go dead, or quiet, or dull, again. You can't have one without the other it seems. It would be nice to think that there is a permanent improvement made by a Tonerite. I remain skeptical. My guitars sound better than I do most of the time and when they don't it is often weather changes that cause it.

 

Keep up the experiments. best wishes.

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Interesting. I just looked at your previous posts and saw that all 8 of them are about ToneRite.

 

You wouldn't by any chance be working for the company' date=' would you? You're certainly doing all you can to "spread the word"...

 

:-k

 

[/quote']

 

You are such a cynic that you don't know a coincidence when you see one --- next you'll deny the scientifically proven facts that the Tone Rite also shrinks goiters, cures gout and makes childbirth painless while assuring a healthy baby..

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Interesting post and well described results.

 

If a well played in guitar "goes quiet" when not played for a while' date=' won't the same thing happen when you use the Tonerite?

 

If it takes a half hour for a well played in Guitar to wake up what will you do- put the Tonerite on it for a half hour before playing it?

 

It takes a half hour for me to wake up my hands and wrists. Overall I do know the phenomenon we are all talking about- that of waking up, or playing in, the idea that things improve in short order , and over the long haul by playing, but that the same instruments can go dead, or quiet, or dull, again. You can't have one without the other it seems. It would be nice to think that there is a permanent improvement made by a Tonerite. I remain skeptical. My guitars sound better than I do most of the time and when they don't it is often weather changes that cause it.

 

Keep up the experiments. best wishes.

 

[/quote']

 

Hi there does this satisfy your scientific curiosity at all JG ? :-

 

 

 

 

 

"I don't care how many symphony players think they hear a difference. That is subjective. Tone is subjective. A bunch of opinions one way or the other doesn't make the case. And I still don't think you are an idiot"

 

[biggrin]

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Interesting. I just looked at your previous posts and saw that all 8 of them are about ToneRite.

 

You wouldn't by any chance be working for the company' date=' would you? You're certainly doing all you can to "spread the word"...

 

[biggrin

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Guerrilla_marketing

 

 

In response to your post, “no”, I do not work for ToneRite nor have I ever worked for them. Additionally, I do not sell the product and I am also not affiliated with them in any way. Since you took the time to read my history of posts here, you actually already knew the answer to that question but posted it anyway. I have to assume you are a guitar refinement non-believer and this was an attempt to discredit my technical knowledge and review of the Tonerite product. Additionally, by reading my 8 posts, you would have realized that I am very new to this forum and 7 of the 8 posts were in response to questions that were posted as a result of my “1” previous review. I actually discovered this forum by searching for reviews of the ToneRite product prior to my decision to buy one. With the addition of this post there are now 9 posts related to the ToneRite and by the time I respond to all the new questions posed to me there will be 12 or 14. Happy counting…

 

With all do respect, if you don’t want purchase a ToneRite then don’t. I'm certainly not trying to sell you one. I decided to buy one based on my knowledge of the applied science behind it. The fact that you are not interested in my results doesn’t discredit the known science of vibration-dedamping. There are many others here who seem to be very interested in the details and results of testing be it good or bad. Just because someone is a vegetarian and doesn’t eat fish doesn’t discredit the nutritional value of fish.

 

Pass the fish please…

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Interesting post and well described results.

 

If a well played in guitar "goes quiet" when not played for a while' date=' won't the same thing happen when you use the Tonerite?

 

If it takes a half hour for a well played in Guitar to wake up what will you do- put the Tonerite on it for a half hour before playing it?

 

It takes a half hour for me to wake up my hands and wrists. Overall I do know the phenomenon we are all talking about- that of waking up, or playing in, the idea that things improve in short order , and over the long haul by playing, but that the same instruments can go dead, or quiet, or dull, again. You can't have one without the other it seems. It would be nice to think that there is a permanent improvement made by a Tonerite. I remain skeptical. My guitars sound better than I do most of the time and when they don't it is often weather changes that cause it.

 

Keep up the experiments. best wishes.

[/quote']

 

JG,

 

Yes, you are correct. Anytime an instrument is not played for a period of time that will occur. If the ToneRite is not used for a long period of time the benefits of using it are lost as well unless it is receiving a good amount of playing time. No science here, bust common sense.

 

And yes, the ToneRite can be used as a convenient way to warm up or “wake up” an instrument before using it. But also keep in mind that with many instruments, long term use will continue to provide additional tone and volume benefits behind the waking up state. At least that has been by limited experience thus far.

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Thanks, Ken, for an informative review. I hadn't really thought about using the ToneRite on my electric guitars, especially on solid-bodies. I'd like to read some more comments about that aspect of use, including results people might experience on Les Pauls, ES-335s and ES-355s. I have Custom Shop versions of all those models and your comments make me wonder what the ToneRite's possible effects on such Gibson electrics might be. My ToneRite is sitting in its Father's Day wrapping, awaiting its initial service. Where to begin?.... Maybe I'll start at the top with my SJ-200 True Vintage. It already sounds great. If the ToneRite can have a positive effect on that guitar's tone, it'll be worth the price of admission right there. Thanks for taking the time to write up your review including your background of experimentation in the area of tonal optimization. If you're happy with your results, then I view that as one very informed, positive vote for the potential of the ToneRite and I appreciate your reporting. Hope to read more of your results, including the settings you find most helpful on various guitars.

 

Jack6849

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In response to your post' date=' “no”, I do not work for ToneRite nor have I ever worked for them. Additionally, I do not sell the product and I am also not affiliated with them in any way. Since you took the time to read my history of posts here, you actually already knew the answer to that question but posted it anyway. [b']I have to assume you are a guitar refinement non-believer and this was an attempt to discredit my technical knowledge and review of the Tonerite product.[/b]

 

Your "assumption" is wrong. I have never used the product; I would never pretend to be able to assess your technical knowledge; but I don't see any reason why this device couldn't accelerate the "opening up-process" of a guitar top. Neil Young's guitar tech Larry Cragg has a secret process he uses to do exactly the same thing.

 

On the other hand I know that this topic is heatedly debated on the forums, so I understand your assumption. I've seen people rave about the TonRite, while others ridiculed them as fools. It gets pretty ugly sometimes.

 

I just thought your review was so professional, so well thought out and so thorough that it had to be "professional", i.e. an advertisement. If you say you're not working for TonRite, I believe you.

 

But they should at least thank you for great press you're giving them.

 

Sorry if I came across harsh. Thanks for the review and welcome to the forum.

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With the addition of this post there are now 9 posts related to the ToneRite and by the time I respond to all the new questions posed to me there will be 12 or 14. Happy counting…

 

I look forward to your contributions regarding everything/anything non-ToneRite.

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I bought a ToneRite and used it on my three acoustics and it improved all three' date=' in different ways.

 

And I don't work for ToneRite, I don't know any of their people and paid full price (at least the price they charge on their website) for the device.[/quote']

 

 

I was on ToneRite's web site one evening several weeks ago reading the Q&As (which I found very interesting) and I think I saw a question that you posted to them regarding testing data. I believe it was the same user name that you have here. Anyway, in the Q&A's there was also a response from ToneRite about how they strongly believe that manufacturers should NOT get involved in forum discussions because of the biased opinions. I have also heard this from other manufacturers. The only exception would be to answer question regarding the respective company with full disclosure. I completely agree with the theory.

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Testing Results on my Martin 000-28EC Clapton Signature Model

 

I finished 5 days of ToneRite treatment on my Martin 000-28EC Eric Clapton model and I have now had 5 days to play it. This guitar is one of the earlier models (1999) without headstock wings and such, before they started cutting corners on production. This is a guitar that I do play regularly; general several times a week. As mentioned earlier, I have noticed that in the past it generally takes about 30 minutes for it to “open up” if it hasn’t been played in a few days. Other then that, it has always been a stunning sounding, very easy playing guitar and over the years it just continues to get better. Sort of like my Taylor 714-CE LTD, it was hard to imagine going in that this guitar could sound any better.

 

I performed a 5-day ToneRite treatment using the following criteria.

 

1. The guitar placed on a floor stand

2. ToneRite at the lowest setting (see note at top of this thread) for 2 days

3. ToneRite at the highest setting for 3 days

 

 

RESULTS

 

The overall tone is distinctly richer. I would describe it is very warm and rich in overtones. There is an increased ‘fullness” that also seems to amount to improved projection. There is a marked increase in volume as well. My non-scientific SPL measurements indicate a 3dB or 4dB increase acoustically. Today I finally had a friend play for me so I could listen from in front and also from a distance. I have to say that even more so than volume, there seems to be a substantial improvement in “projection”. Hopefully the trained ears out there understand the difference between volume and projection as there is a distinct difference. My friend who has heard my 000-28EC many times was very impressed in the improvement as well.

 

Now that I have had five days to play the guitar I have noticed that it “kicks” right out of the case and no longer needs 30 minutes for it to “open up”. I’m wondering how long I would have to let it sit unplayed for it to need a warm up period. Anyway, I have to say I’m very happy with the results. I have now used this on three guitars and all three have shown performance improvements. Keep in mind that these were all high quality instruments as well. I would expect some degree of vibration de-dampening to occur on a quality instrument. I’m guessing that lower quality guitars improve to some degree but nowhere near the level of higher-end guitars made with quality woods, joints and construction workmanship.

 

 

OK… all the nay sayers who bought snake oil in the 70’s can now chime in.

 

:-)

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Ive had a Tonerite on my Larrivee LO9CE for 5 days now, I rented it from someone to try before I buy, I have taken the guitar off the tonerite a few times to play it briefly but have noticed no significant differences, but I have a feeling the strings are dead and once new strings are put on I will be more able to tell the outcome of the tonerite process, my Martin is next in line before my brother gets it to use on his D35

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Follow Up Review

 

 

I also included several electric guitars (mostly Gibson Les Pauls) in my testing trials and noted positive results with those as well. The most noteworthy positive effects included:

 

• Better string to string balance

• Fuller more refined tone

• Much richer harmonics and overtones

• Substantially increased volume

• Increased “punch” and presence

 

 

 

I also wondered about the effect on electric guitars, I asked this question on another site and was told it does nothing to electric guitars :-k:-k

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Ive had a Tonerite on my Larrivee LO9CE for 5 days now......

 

I also wondered about the effect on electric guitars' date=' I asked this question on another site and was told it does nothing to electric guitars

 

[/quote']

 

 

Keep me posted on your results for all three instruments. I would also be interested in more background info in each instrument reviewed such as:

 

Age of Instrument, how often it is played, general satisfaction with the guitar before the application.

 

In regards to your questions about my early experiments with vibration de-dampening on electrics, I would have to say that I did seem to notice a "fuller" tone, more overtones when using distortion, and a noted increase in sustain clean or overdriven. I hope this answers you questions.

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Ken, thanks for the thoughtful post. The thing that has so far kept me from using tonerite is the fear of doing harm. Somewhere I read of one or two bad experiences, guitars that sounded worse, boomy bass and muddled mids. For certain this appears to be a small minority of the reported results, which generally range from very positive to small change.

 

Suburude, have you tried your tonerite on either your Kopp or D-18A? I'm be interested to hear your description of the changes, if any.

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