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Gibson Les Paul vs Epiphone Les Paul


Konov

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I am interested to know how a Solid body LP with no finish what so ever sounds like. I would buy one if Gibby made one.

There would be zero difference in sound. Take any Les Paul, strip the finish off and it will still sound the same as it did with the finish on.

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There would be zero difference in sound. Take any Les Paul, strip the finish off and it will still sound the same as it did with the finish on.

 

"In your humble opinion" You missed it out of your post :rolleyes:

 

My opinion is taken from my experience of owning an unfinished LP.

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I have four Epiphones. Of those four only one - my s/h G400 - was playable from the off (it had had a good set up) and it is the guitar I actually play the most.

 

I have two Epi Les Paul's both of which needed set ups (action far too high for me) and an Epi ES345 which is (currently) undergoing extensive revamping including full setting up because I am not happy with the action.

 

I currently own one Gibby and have owned two Gibson's previously. The playability of all them has been superb from the off as has been the case with my Yamaha's.

 

I think Epiphones can be (essentially are at heart) good guitars but they need things done to bring them out, so to speak (IMHO).

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OK, we're straying quite a bit from the original question in this Thread from the Dead.

 

The OP wasn't asking whether a top-notch Epi LP was better than a top-notch Gibson LP.

He was asking whether a top-notch Epi LP was better than the entry-level Gibson LPs;

 

...I am looking at the 800$ to 1199 dollar zone. The 665 les paul standard and the 832 les paul studio seem to be higher rated than 1199 (with discount) Les Paul Studio Faded........why?...

I doubt the OP is hanging around for my words of wisdom on the matter but here goes anyway...

 

As has been mentioned there are (probably) more duff (relatvely speaking) Gibson LPs than there are Epi LPs but then the expectations are different in each case.

When I went hunting for an Epi LP I expected to find a very, very nice guitar. And I did. Quite a few of them, actually. So I bought the best of the bunch.

When I went hunting for my #1 Gibson LP I expect to find a fantastic guitar. A "very, very nice guitar" is simply not good enough when paying 'Gibson money'.

This chase took much, much longer but the rewards - in terms of the end result - were in direct proportion to the length of time it took to find the instrument.

 

I owned that really nice Epi LP for a number of years back in the first half of the 2000's.

It really was (and still is - a good friend of mine has it now) a very, very nice guitar. But to suggest it was better than a really good Gibson LP is sheer nonsense.

FWIW even the (admittedly only example of a) Studio Faded I've played was a better sounding, playing and feeling guitar than the Epi.

 

Epi's are great guitars for the money. I'm sure the best of them are wonderful guitars and could possibly give a 'regular' Gibson a run for it's money.

But I've never seen, found, played or even heard a reliable witness claim that they have played (etc.) a fantastic Epi in the same way that many folks have found a fantastic Gibson.

 

All just IMHO, of course.

 

P.

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I have three Les Pauls. Two Gibson and one Epi. The only difference I have found is in the treble. My Epi is nowhere near as bright as my Gibson. I was thinking of swapping the pups for some '76 Gibson Humbuckers I was given. But why?? I can always change amps settings when I play the Epi Paul. Its a great guitar with a beautiful finish. It stays in tune and the intonation is spot on. I'm kicking myself that I got rid of the first Epi Paul I bought. It was a wine red Custom. Great looking guitar...but I traded it in for my Epi Joe Pass..... which I love. For a working musician they are affordable and do the same job as a Gibson. You just have to work your way up. Cosmetically they are identical except for the headstock shape...but we already know that. JMHO..

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I have three Les Pauls. Two Gibson and one Epi. The only difference I have found is in the treble. My Epi is nowhere near as bright as my Gibson.

I don't really know what to say, KB.

 

I have, in all sincerity, the greatest respect for pretty much all that I know about you.

You have played - and will continue to play - far more gigs to far more people than I will ever see and your experiences are way beyond anything I have ever done.

 

If the treble issue is your only concern then I'm genuinely happy for you. It saves a lot of trouble in a great many ways.

 

I have had a very different experience as far as the infamous and equally ridiculous 'Tone Chase' is concerned.

 

As you yourself say;

"....they (Epiphones) are affordable and do the same job as a Gibson."

 

All I can surmise is that we clearly have a different approach as to what, exactly, that "job" entails.

 

P.

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I believe the quality of the Chinese Epis has improved quite a bit in the last couple of years, especially the pickups. The newer pickups with "pro" in the name are supposed to sound pretty close to Gibson pickups, though I haven't played them yet myself.

 

I don't have an Epi LP, but I have a Gibson ES-355 and an Epi ES-355 (both white [smile] ). The Gibson has 57 Classics and the Epi came with the older Epi "Alnico Classic" pickups. The Gibson is clearly a better made guitar with better wood and more attention to detail, plus an expensive nitro finish. Stock the Gibson sounded much better and felt somewhat better to play (to me and my style of playing). I did a fret dress on the Epi, replaced the nut with a Tusq, and replaced the stock pickups with used Gibson 57 Classics. The Epi is still not as well built, but to me in side by side tests it feels reasonably close to the Gibson and sounds very close. I have gigged with the modded Epi and would have no qualms using it as my main guitar if that's what I could afford.

 

What was the question again?

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Regarding a tone talking to me and sustain, my 1985 Weimann Blues Bird ES guitar is a benchmark out of reach for next to all guitars of any make. Therefore I have to admit that my expectations are really sick. However, besides this rare item, there is nothing offering a sustain going beyond that of Les Paul guitars to my experiences, including mine.

 

When comparing them thoroughly, this is not a simple question, and in the end it's more about details. So e. g. the high end PRC made Epiphone Tribute LP of mine is closest to my Gibson LP Standard 2012 when set to humbucker series operation either, and the very difference is the increased dynamic reaction of the Gibson. I can't discern them in a double blind test after having recorded them played moderately unless having tried the Epi's dull tone for a longer lasting note.

 

There still are other points which are different between several Les Paul models. Although they are very great and I often use them, I omit the varying switching options here featured by two third of them, and take the series humbucker operations into account only. All of the hardtails are strung with Optima .011" - .050" roundwounds, and apart from three TP-6 finetuning tailpieces all the hardware is stock as well as the pickups.

 

Previous and following descriptions evaluate just the tone as is, i. e. straight from the jack through a cable with 600 pF self capacitance into a 1 MOhms input, no EQ, purely amped up into HiFi speakers or headphones.

 

My Gibson Custom Shop LP Standard has the most compressed, fat and singing tone as well as the most clicking attack and the most distinctive dull note. Then comes the Epiphone LP 1960 Tribute Plus with a slightly more sparkling bite, a bit less compression and a slightly less apparent dull note. Closest to the Epiphone Tribute LP is my Gibson LP Standard 2012 with the more of a dynamic attack mentioned above, a little more edgy upper midrange overtones when pushed hard, and about the same degree of compression. My 2011 Gibson LP Standard Quilt is mainly different from it within the first half of a second after a significantly brighter attack with a virtually "phasy" treble decay following, and a subsequent tone very close to the Standard 2012. The Gibson LP Traditional 2013 of mine is the most different beast of the bunch with a twangy attack, unique upper midrange bite, and an overtone sustain rivalling with that of the fundamentals.

 

Finally, there is my Alex Lifeson LP Axcess, featuring a piezo Floyd Rose and strung with Optima .010" - .046" roundwounds. The magnetic pickup tone is somewhere between the Gibson USA Standards and the Traditional, fat, bright and singing. The sustain keeps up with the heavier strung hardtails, despite of laminated fretboard and vibrato. It also has a fantastic acoustic sound, surpassing that of any hollowbody processed with a compressor, and by far more natural and less pumping.

 

The only consistency seems to be the more percussive tone and upper midrange content due to the harder woods used by Gibson.

 

There is no valid correlation between tone and pickups, so I don't evaluate them here en detail. Ironically, the biggest differences appear between two Gibsons featuring '57 Classics, and the Epi with Gibson '57s is closest to the Gibby Standard with the Burstbuckers Pro.

 

By the way, my SSS configured 1986 Ibanez RG 430 is a tough challenge for every Fender Stratocaster, too.

 

- Quoted from post #2 -

"I some what asked Henry J the CEO of Gibson this question.. here's is answer to me.

 

Quote

In any case, our Epiphone Les Pauls, are real Les Pauls. Our plant manager in China was the plant manager in Nashville for a number of years and all our divisions work together to get the very best product for the price. Most Les Paul's come from our own factories in Quing Dao China and I believe they are superb instruments and great values. They do say Epiphone and our customer know what they are getting for their hard earned money.

 

Are the Epiphones as good as Gibsons? They are not the same. We try to make guitar affordable at Epi so the material and construction is different. The tops are typically laminated and the wood is a specie called Nato. There are other subtle differences. Both are great instruments, but they are not the same. I think they are both great values and both are professional quality.

 

I think what you believe is a lot more important than what I believe.

 

Thanks for taking the time. Henry"

- End of quotations -

 

Epiphone versus Gibson Les Paul guitars - finally I agree that Henry Juskiewicz hit the nail on the head.

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No matter if you choose Epiphone or Gibson ... in both cases it depends on the model and the individual guitar. Let me explain why:

 

I have an Epiphone LP Tribute 1960 and a Gibson LP Signature T and both are great after a professional setup. But the Epi was worse out of the box. But now both are nearly equal, though a bit different. The playability on the Gibby is still a bit better due to the flatter frets. The sound on both is great, because they both have the Gibson 57 Classic pickups. But even their sound is a little bit different, because the SigT has open coils and the Epi covered pups.

 

As long as one doesn't choose the cheapest Epi model, an Epi can be a good choice. But I highly recommend to play it first ... no matter which brand ... quality control on both brands is suboptimal nowadays! At least that's my experience after visiting several shops and trying out several Epis and Gibbys.

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No matter if you choose Epiphone or Gibson ... in both cases it depends on the model and the individual guitar. Let me explain why:

 

I have an Epiphone LP Tribute 1960 and a Gibson LP Signature T and both are great after a professional setup. But the Epi was worse out of the box. But now both are nearly equal, though a bit different. The playability on the Gibby is still a bit better due to the flatter frets. The sound on both is great, because they both have the Gibson 57 Classic pickups. But even their sound is a little bit different, because the SigT has open coils and the Epi covered pups.

 

As long as one doesn't choose the cheapest Epi model, an Epi can be a good choice. But I highly recommend to play it first ... no matter which brand ... quality control on both brands is suboptimal nowadays! At least that's my experience after visiting several shops and trying out several Epis and Gibbys.

Each time I compared them at a retailer, Epiphone LPs easily blew Gibson LPs to my taste. The reason is as plain as it can be changed easily: Epiphones come with very bright sounding strings stock, Gibsons with mellow ones, and bright is matching my taste much better. I use very bright sounding strings on all of my roundwound strung guitars and basses.

 

There is a thing within the Gibson '57s beyond open and covered coils. Since the stray capacitances of the coils to ground are different, their tone also depends on the order of wiring them for conventional series operation. In case the hot wire of the slug coil is fed to the output, the pickup sounds much darker than if the pole screw coil's cold wire is used.

 

I thought I misheard it, and so I recorded the front pickup of one of my Frank Zappa "Roxy" SGs up phase and down phase. Flipping the polarity within the recording system didn't change tone, it's within the pickup. Then I tried my second FZ "Roxy" guitar, with same results.

 

The reason is achieving humbucking coil split operation when both pickups are operational, so the four-conductor wiring of the front pickup's coils is reversed in this guitar. Therefore when split, the rear pickup's screw coil is operational, combined with the front pickup's slug coil in up phase and the front pickup's screw coil in down phase setting. Both the split coil combinations are humbucking this way. The FZ "Roxys" have open coil '57s.

 

Think I should check this out on my Epi Tribute LP to make sure it is wired for the more brilliant circuitry... :rolleyes:

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Each time I compared them at a retailer, Epiphone LPs easily blew Gibson LP guitars to my taste. The reason is as plain as it can be changed easily: Epiphones come with very bright sounding strings stock, Gibsons with mellow ones, and bright is matching my taste much better.

 

It seems, I explained my experience not detailled enough.

 

My sound comparison was done at home and both guitars were strung with a fresh set of .10 Gibson Brite Wires ... and they were already setup by a luthier. BTW, both have coil splitting, but the wiring is different, because on one guitar coil splitting is done with the volume pot, on the other one with the tone pot. Nevertheless the tone is very similar, both being very brilliant. But the open coils have a bit more bite.

 

My comparisons in the shop were regarding craftsmanship and playability, taking into account, that the setup of most guitars wasn't optimal.

 

One last point worth mentioning: My Epi had a classic Tunomatic bridge with a rattling wire, so my luthier exchanged it against a Tonepros wireless model ... that were some bucks well spent! The SigT's bridge is the more modern variant without this horrible rattling wire and was perfect out of the box. BTW ... my Gretsch Black Panther also has this rattling wire bridge ... and that baby is nearly double the price of a SigT. But it's worth mentioning, that Gretsch has a better overall quality control in their US made pro line, than Gibson.

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It seems, I explained my experience not detailled enough.

 

My sound comparison was done at home and both guitars were strung with a fresh set of .10 Gibson Brite Wires ... and they were already setup by a luthier.

...

The experiences I posted above in #87 were done with equally strung and appropriately set up guitars as described there, and so the Gibsons turned out to be the brighter sounding guitars, even with covered pickups. Sorry, no offense, reporting my first impressions was just meant as an illustration how different conditions might affect results. B)

 

Evaluating guitars at a dealer is always compromised somehow. Different strings and deviations in setup foul up valid A/B comparisons. Slightly inferior intonation adjustments will make a nicer guitar sound worse, too. <_<

 

People might think different about checking out solidbody or semi-hollow guitars unplugged in a silent corner, but this will give you an impression of what the strings may deliver to the pickups. They only can transduce what they are offered... [rolleyes]

 

I also experienced that there's nothing beyond a convenient return policy. [thumbup]

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..., and so the Gibsons turned out to be the brighter sounding guitars, even with covered pickups.

 

Didn't you write the opposite in your last post?

 

I think Gibson pickups are better than Epi's. In my experience many Epis can be improved with better pickups and most important, a better bridge. And most El Cheapo Epis need a fret job, which is never needed on a Gibson out of the box.

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Didn't you write the opposite in your last post?

 

I think Gibson pickups are better than Epi's. In my experience many Epis can be improved with better pickups and most important, a better bridge. And most El Cheapo Epis need a fret job, which is never needed on a Gibson out of the box.

Epis are brighter than Gibsons with stock strings, Gibsons when strung with same bright strings as the Epis, as I posted before.

 

My Epi Tribute LP has '57 and '57+ which are great on Epis and Gibsons. However, those with braided wire as e. g. on my Gibson LP Traditional 2013 sound darker.

 

There are several kinds of wiring to be found in Gibson guitars. In case pickups, switch and jack are braided wired, the inner capacitance of the guitar wiring exceeds that of a good guitar cable by far and contributes to a mushy sound. Perhaps I will buy four-conductor pickups and modern wires and rewire all of the five traditionally wired Gibsons of mine in the future. I would use three or four push/pull pots then and hype up the tonal flexibility... [biggrin]

 

There also are four basses which I would like to convert, but there are no modern wired pickups available. Sadly they also don't make the 1970's tarback Super Humbucking pickups anymore, let alone four-conductor wired, so I am tied to stay with the braided wired originals... :(

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I have owned 2 or 3 Epi Les Pauls and about 5 Gibsons (including Standards). Once I change the pickups and set them up perfectly, I could never tell the difference. Not in a thousand years. I also owned a 1960 Gibson 335 for over 30 years, and a newer one for a few years, and an Epiphone Sheraton. The tone was slightly warmer on the Gibsons, but aside from that, I can't honestly say that any one of those 3 was better than the other 2.

 

I love Epiphone. (once I change the pickups to Classic '57s.) :)

 

I even had 2 cheap Epi SGs ($199) and once I put the Classics in them, they were GREAT.

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I love Epiphone. (once I change the pickups to Classic '57s.)

 

 

That's why I chose the Tribute 60 ... it came with 57's out of the box. I love those pups.

 

Regarding the original question ... yes, I chose it over a Studio and would do it again. But if I would have to choose between my Epi Tribute 60 and my Gibby SigT, my choice is the later for sure.

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I'll tell you something guys, if one guitar was better than the other to everyone, for instance, if everyone liked Gibsons more, Epiphone les Pauls would not be so mainstream. Few would know it even exists.

 

But it's clear that there's a huge community for both sides. So yeah, there are pros and cons for each which keep both brands on top of the market.

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  • 4 weeks later...

ummm epiphone les pauls HAVE NEVER had laminated tops

 

in fact i remember when a epiphone chopped up a black custom les paul to show the wood used on epiphone guitars when a fake guitar was making the rounds claiming epiphone was using cardboard as a top on their guitars.

 

take a look for your self the same mahogany and maple

 

LPCstTop1.jpg

 

http://guitar-letter.de/Knowledge/Diverses/EpiStatementPappPaula.htm

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ummm epiphone les pauls HAVE NEVER had laminated tops

 

in fact i remember when a epiphone chopped up a black custom les paul to show the wood used on epiphone guitars when a fake guitar was making the rounds claiming epiphone was using cardboard as a top on their guitars.

 

take a look for your self the same mahogany and maple

 

LPCstTop1.jpg

 

http://guitar-letter.de/Knowledge/Diverses/EpiStatementPappPaula.htm

You are wrong sir, they do have laminate/veneer tops on some models ( the ones that show a wood grain patten). Go to the Epiphone site and see for yourself.

http://www.epiphone.com/Products/Les-Paul/Les-Paul-Standard-Quilt-Top-PRO.aspx

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You are wrong sir, they do have laminate/veneer tops on some models ( the ones that show a wood grain patten). Go to the Epiphone site and see for yourself.

http://www.epiphone.com/Products/Les-Paul/Les-Paul-Standard-Quilt-Top-PRO.aspx

No cardboards, no laminate, no plywood, just a veneer. [thumbup]

 

It's not just for grain but in particular for figuring. [love]

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No cardboards, no laminate, no plywood, just a veneer. [thumbup]

 

It's not just for grain but in particular for figuring. [love]

Laminate gets interchanged with veneer, when it comes to tops. Same thing. Grain, figuring, wood look...same thing. [thumbup]

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I agree with Henry J's comments 100%.

 

IMO an Epiphone will never sound exactly like a Gibson, it is made of different wood. Now, whether one sounds better than the other is certainly a matter of preference. There was a time when I prefered the warm growl of an Epi G400 over the brighter character of the Gibson SG special I compared it with. I've since come to prefer the sound, materials and construction nuances of Gibsons.

 

I can best sum up my feelings with these hypothetical scenarios:

 

- I would rather have an Epiphone made of Honduran Mahogany than a Gibson made of Nato

 

- I would rather have an Epiphone made of Honduran mahogany, a one piece neck and a 17 degree headstock angle than a Gibson of the same materials but with a 14 degree headstock angle (as some years of Gibson LPs feature).

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An Epi will never sound like a Gibby?

 

Yes, but when I compare my Epi Tribute 1960 ( not the Plus) and my Gibson Signature T, the difference is very small ... not very astonishing, because they both have Gibson 57 Classics ... open coil (SigT) versus covered. But the Gibby has a better playability, but even that might be personal taste ... the Epi has thicker frets.

 

What I found out is, that both brands have great guitars and lemons too. So it's not astonishing, that I perfer my Epi over several Gibsons, especially the Studios, as I perfer my SigT over many other Gibbies incl. Standards.

 

Conclusion: Some Epis are really great guitars.

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