No set up on new guitars

[Lerxst1281733995]

Sadly, the hometown, mom and pop guitar shop is becoming a thing of the past... Just as Wal Mart has squeezed out a lot of local retailers and smaller chains, GC and online music dealers are doing the same to guitar shops.. This month, one of the last real guitar shops in my town has closed it doors for the last time after 35 years in business.. There's still a couple of other music stores nearby, but they cater mostly to "student clientel" and carry "student grade" guitars (Stagg, Lauren, Dean Playmate, etc...) as well as flutes and oboes and sheet music to the latest top 40 and Broadway hits...

 

They're not the kind of shops where you can go on a Saturday afternoon and kill some time talking to the old-timers and the other local gear-heads.. Or checking out some cool and/or unusual new acquisition that some guy traded in for the old Gretsch that had been hanging in the shop for a year and a half... The kind of shop where the owner is always there, and happy to share his wealth of knowlege and information... And you have NO IDEA how he stays in business.... Until he's not in business anymore...

[Stewie]

We are lucky up here in Cannuckland to still have original independant stores. We have one conglomerate store, Long and Mcquade. They have the same typical mega store mentality when it comes to staffing. There are few full time employees and most are young high school or college students who know how to take your money but don't know one end of the guitar from another. Their prices are usually higher and they will not bargain.

The store that gets all my business is always busy. I was there on thursday during the day and you could hardly move, and it was 10 minutes after it opened. I looked at a couple of used guitars in their used room, and when I dropped back an hour later to drop of a guitar for a set up both of the guitars I was interested in had sold. A Gary Moore LP and a 50s Reissue Strat in Daphne blue. They are a Fender Custom Shop dealer and a Fulltone dealer, and they sell Gibson as well, They have an equipment rental side as well and they are in no danger of closing. Plus they have one of the best techs in the country.

[Notes_Norton]

My local guitar shop will set up guitars before hanging them on the wall. Unfortunately they handle neither Gibson nor Fender because the BigBox stores have those franchises tied up. They sell Hagstrom, Turser and other "off brands" and occasionally have a used brand name guitar in.

 

So I ended up getting my Casino at GC. Fortunately the former owner had it set up quite nicely.

 

Notes

[TheX]

We have 2 GC's in Austin and they both rock. I gladly spend my money in there. I never, ever pay the stickered (online) price either. That Epi dot that runs $399.99 online is easily had for 330.

[pohatu771]

I went to Guitar Center looking at acoustics today. Talk about some dumb people. There was one woman who was incredibly helpful, but because she was pregnant, wasn't allowed to climb ladders. So she had to call someone over to pick a guitar off the wall. This was probably the dumbest person I've ever seen. He was wheeling the ladder over, and hit a stand with a Les Paul on it. It started to fall, so I caught it. Of course, I also cut my finger on a string-end (since I caught the headstock), so for the rest of the time, I walked around with my finger in my mouth so it wouldn't bleed all over the guitars.

[Blueshound9]

I went to Guitar Center looking at acoustics today. Talk about some dumb people. There was one woman who was incredibly helpful' date=' but because she was pregnant, wasn't allowed to climb ladders. So she had to call someone over to pick a guitar off the wall. This was probably the dumbest person I've ever seen. He was wheeling the ladder over, and hit a stand with a Les Paul on it. It started to fall, so I caught it. Of course, I also cut my finger on a string-end (since I caught the headstock), so for the rest of the time, I walked around with my finger in my mouth so it wouldn't bleed all over the guitars.[/quote']Did they at least offer a napkin or band aid? You did after all possibly save one of their guitars from serious damage with little or no regard to your own welfare.

[Lerxst1281733995]

Human mouths are septic, guy! (yes, even yours..) You should have never exposed an open cut to that much bacteria! Now it'll probably get infected and cause you to lose time outta work.. Forget about playing the guitar! And if you earn part or all of your income playing music, think of all those lost wages! I think Guitar Center is gonna have to think beyond a 20% discount on this one, when they find out what an actionable position you're in right now... Litigiously speaking, that is... ;)/

 

It's a shame, really... All they had to do was address your needs and treat you with a little human decency! But no... They don't care.. All they care about is keeping your blood off their precious guitars! Now look at you... Crippled and disfigured! What about your pain and suffering?? Your emotional trauma! How can you carry on after this?? Your life will never be the same again! Damn it!! Someone's gotta pay!

[pohatu771]

I should have let it bleed... then raised my bloody hand toward that 70s Tele...

 

And I don't mean the reissue.

[brad1]

pohatu, they should have at least given you a bloody discount! (lol)

[pohatu771]

I didn't buy a bloody thing. They did have a nice Fender 12-string, though... If I wrap my hand up, and get a doctor's note... and maybe add a crutch for good measure...

[sexygibson]

Not trying to run to the defense of the retailer, but, it would really be a waste of their time to do a set-up on all the guitars in the store because each player may desire a different set-up.

My local will do a set-up for free on any guitar purchased there.

[smokestack]

This topic has been one of the buzzy-est bees in my bonnet over many years.

The fact that so many guitars go through years of use without ever playing or performing to their potential.

It's a bigger issue than ever in today's world of internet shopping and mail order...and for a further and rather ironic reason.

With a little very basic attention, today's budget guitar from a reputable source is capable of playing just as beautifully as its more prestigious cousins at the other end of the store. Sadly, they seldom get that attention.

How many guitars do we see, which after years of love and use, still have the same unevenly cut nut... and enough relief to drive a bus under !

It happens with budget and mid priced guitars not just because they [quite understandably] don't get the same care and attention in final assembly and set up as expensive instruments... but also because the players that buy them tend to be inexperienced. In many cases they simply don't know enough about guitars to realise how much better it could and should be !

The guy buying the Gibson Les Paul or Music Man Axis knows exactly how that guitar should perform...and if it's not bang on he'll have the experience either to sort it himself or at least to know what needs looking at.

The young chap buying his first decent budget instrument doesn't often have this savvy.

So what's the answer ?

There isn't one. At least not until the sole arbiter in the market ceases to be who sells it the cheapest ! ..which won't happen.

The smaller independent dealers who do take pride in making sure their instruments are ready to fly are also disappearing fast. It's quite depressing really.

[wedgeSG]

I just wanted to echo what Amino Moore said about some of our local outlets. I agree that the Nashville Sam Ash and the Knoxville GuitarCenter are generally better all around than some other locations of the same retailers. True both do have some younger employees... but they do somehow seem more knowledgeable about both sales technique, and the products they're attempting to move. Knoxville in particular I feel strives to hire individuals that know the instrument, (even in the drums department). Knoxville's on-site tech, Jim Harrison, is on top of his game and will not only go out of his way to give you the set-up or repairs you need, he never makes even the greeenest beginner feel alienated. Jim doesn't just sit around when the walk-ins slow down either.... he's pulling stuff off the walls or floor for quick tune-ups. There should be more Jim's in GC's. The Guitar Center in Chattanooga, however, is a different story. It seems to somehow have every lacking trait ever mentioned about GC's in this forum. I dealt with one guy there that finally left because he simply could no longer take the grind of both the employees AND the deadbeats that hung out there. The place has never been the same since, but really who could blame him for leaving? He went out of his way to insure every thing I ever bought there from cabs, to heads, to used gear was 100% satisfactory before it ever left the door. Nobody there since has shown a hint of that level of dedication. What stunned me the most was how much this guy cared about the stock. You could see his blood boil if some goof bumped a headstock against something or if somebody leaned a guitar against an amp where it was likely to fall. It was as if he was responsible for the protection of the instruments on hand. Most of these guys couldn't care less about a floor model. Speaking of, I recently asked about a obviously abused floor Epi at a discount, the youth "helping" me said he'd check with manager and I never saw him again. This was duing a slow afternnon, mid-week. You'd think they'ed jump at the chance of moving some scratch'n'dents. All in all, Tennessee is great place to shop, lotsa outlets, lotsa competition, due to lotsa music made here, keeps folks pretty much on their toes. Wedgie

[Notes_Norton]

The GC in West Palm is pretty good, but it depends on the salesperson you get. Some know, some don't.

 

I try to support my local mom-and-pop shop as much as I can though, and always use them for strings and other consumables. Plus if I need anything that they carry, I'll go there before going to the big box stores or to the mail-order outlets.

 

Sure, I pay a bit more, but not that much. And if I need extra service, they are there for me because they know me.

 

I remember the time I was curious about a BBE Sonic Maximizer. It sounded good on the PA in the store, but I wondered what it would do for me. The salesman checked with the owner (who knows me from my previous business) and told me, take it home, put it in the rack (with plastic washers), and try it on the gig. As long as you don't scratch it and bring back like you found it, there will be no charge. They didn't even ask for a deposit or credit card number to secure it.

 

Try getting that kind of service out of a big box store.

 

BTW, it sounded so good I went back on Monday and handed them my credit card.

 

I've also been loaned saxophones while my main sax was getting overhauled (something that needs to be done every few years).

 

Try getting that kind of service out of a big box store.

 

So what you pay a little extra for in a locally owned store can pay you back in the long run.

 

Plus it feeds the local economy which in turn feeds your gigging opportunities in a small way.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[daneman]

Our local music store was bought out by the Reiman's music chain.They still have many of the employees since I was a kid.Back in the old days they did in house repairs.A few years ago I bought 3 accoustics from them,including a nice 12 string Fender.After a few months the bridge began pulling up from the soundboard.

Me "Do you still do repairs here?

Them "no we send it to Des Moines and they do it"

Me "Well do you still have a clamp for bridge I could borrow,you've known me for 30 yrs or more,I'll bring it back in a day or two"

Them "no we sent all those tools to the Des Moines stores"

So reluctantly I turned over my hand picked guitar to them.

2 months later,they issued me a full refund for the guitar.Seems the model has been discontinued.

Ok I still like the store,they'll beat or match MF when possible.

But like most everywhere else,good old fashioned service,Like my sweet guitar,has vanished or is getting close to it.

I would rather have kept my guitar and gotten it fixed than to try to find one that was as good.

D-

[Suho]

I don't want to mimic too much of what has been said, so I will try to be brief.

 

Samash in Philly is the pitts. Ignorant kids. The GCs are not bad. Not great, just not bad.

 

I come from Albany, NY. The best place was the Mars Music for the few years it was there. Those guys really, truly, cared about the music and the instruments, and the customers. Most of them were not kids, either, which may have a lot to do with it. What a loss that was.

 

In high school, I hung out at the local store that sold the mostly Asian import brands. According to the owner, who liked me and told me I reminded him of his nephew, he couldn't sell Fender or Gibson because of the bigger store in town that had the exclusive distributing rights. He still gave me pretty good deals on my guitars. Things were good, except when the owner was away the day I came to pick up my mandolin I had just finished paying for (weekly installments). Some numbnuts jumped up to tap it off the hook it was on (rather than get a stepladder or a chair) and thought he would be cool and catch it as it fell off. You can guess what happened. The thing I had been paying off slowly, eyeing and playing every week, waiting to take home, came crashing down on the floor! I got a replacement eventually, and it is probably a better one than I lost, but it took a long time.

 

About ten years later I went back. The owner was changed. He was not so eager to make a deal, kind of bitter at life, and even offered to sell me his business. I don't go there anymore.

[Lerxst1281733995]

I agree with you about Mars Music... For a "big box" music store, it was pretty good... I only ever saw those stores when I lived in the midwest for a couple of years, then they went out of business, or got absorbed by GC or something.. It would seen that the experience we all have of these stores varies from place to place.. The GC in my area is terrible.. Kinda small too, for a GC..

 

 

It's a shame to hear about the local guy in your town... Those stores can't make a buck anymore unless they fill a particular niche. The big name makers don't care about them, because they can't move product like the chain stores, so all these store owners can do is carry off-brand product and hope they sell enough instruments to local students to keep afloat.

[Suho]

Yeah, it was a shame.

 

But on the positive side, I found a bass teacher at Mars. I had been playing for about 12 years already, but hadn't had lessons in years. The bass guy there, Calvin, is a professional player in his own right. He does a lot of shows and Motown reviews when they perform. He was fantabulistically great!!!!

 

I was trying to trade in a bass I had in order to buy a Jazz bass. I didn't want to sell it, but I couldn't have bought the other bass outright. Calvin and this other guy, George, told me they thought it was very nice, but couldn't give me what it was worth and that I should keep it, or try and sell it myself. Calvin then said that he had to test it out, since I had already brought it into the store. (He was joking, but wanted to try it.) He floored me. During that mini performance, he told me that if I sold it to them he would take it home with him that night. I still have the bass today, thanks to him. He "sold" me on the bass I already had! How about that!?

 

I then had to hound him to take lessons. I took them for about 6 months before moving away to Philly for law school. During the lessons at his house, he charged me for 45minutes or an hour, then we would spend at least twice that much time, sometimes 2 hours just playing and talking. Cool guy... Mars Music.

 

[Just another story about Calvin...I brought him my Primus tape, cued it to "Tommy the Cat," and asked for his help playing it. I had had the tab for years, but if you know Primus, you understand how hard it is to emulate. Calvin listened to it once, and before the song was over, he was basically just slamming out the tune exactly as it was (or close enough you wouldn't know the difference. That man is a TRUE bassist. He wasn't even into that style of music.]

[Lerxst1281733995]

Yeesh! That's impressive! I've never even attempted Les Claypool... I just said: "Nah... ferget it... I don't even have a Carl Thompson bass anyway.."

[MI_Canuck]

well i just had my Epi LP set up w/ fresh strings at one of the local independent shops around here... (the used guitar store i've bought all my stuff so far - Epi G400 Goth, Fender Hot Rod DLX, and now Epi LP are not in the repair business - so i don't even ask or expect them to set it up, even though maybe they can)... so the shop i took it too... run by some decently nice guys - set up with same-day turnaround, only cost me $29.50 - and that included the strings! (Ernie Ball Slinkys)... i like supporting the small guys any way I can... i take lessons at that same place...

 

truth be told this Epi LP seemed to me in really good shape (except for the garbage strings) so probably didn't need much in terms of setup... but in any case - when i got it back home... and me thinking it played decent with even the old rock hard strings that were on it ..... just completely BLEW me away!! holy crap does this thing sound good.... the sustain and tone just floor me... and this is just with a good little setup and fresh new strings...

 

truly worth the $29.50 it cost me! (i'm not saying it's the best setup in the world, but for the price and the noticeable difference it made me, is all the counts.... for those paying $75+ for a setup, i sure hope that they are getting a complete cleaning and detailing, electronics tested, tuners cleaned, nut adjusted... the works for that kind of price....)... another place in town here that i considered was Motor City Guitars (up in far northwest 'burbs of Detroit) charges $50 - but does all the items I described, however they need to keep it for like 4-5 days... and charge for strings on top of that... surely a more thorough job that what i got, but honestly... i'll be replacing my own pickups and wiring eventually, and it didn't seem worth the $50 plus the 4-5 days i'd be without it (call it separation anxiety, lol!!! - but since my LP is so new to me... i couldn't let it be away for that long... plus i need the practice)

 

but i'm a believer in a setup... even if the guitar isn't that far off... makes such a nice difference (and i find makes it easier to tune as well)....

 

 

great thread

[tvyellow]

Wow, a lot of discussion came out of that!

The bottom line for me is that I'll be avoiding that nation-wide chain like the plague, even their president was mediocre in his email back to me on it.

I've gotta to say I'm really impressed with the willingness of members here to pass on what they know, it's a GREAT community! Thanks!

And yes, I'll be throwing money at my local people!

[TWANG]

Being new at guitar' date=' I have a question for the veteran players out there. When did it become acceptable for shops to take new guitars straight from the cardboard box out onto the showroom floor without so much as a peek at the action or the intonation?

I know of one major chain in Canada that sold me, an admitted newbie, an acoustic with what I later found out was a bowed neck and awful action. Happily, they did let me return the thing after a musician had seen what I'd been told -but it was not in sellable condition and shouldn't have made it on the floor according to my friend. When I went back to return it, I looked at another brand, several hundred dollars more expensive, and brought the axe up to the counter. They wouldn't so much as look at it and told me that there'd be a two week wait to get it set up....I left the $600 guitar in the "capable" hands of the 4 clerks behind the counter and walked away. Contrast that with the results I had at another shop in my city who wanted" my business. The salesguy actually played the thing and adjusted the neck, assuring me, a guy who knew nothing about guitars, that it was a good buy. Needless to say, that same salesclerk later sold me my EPI LP Classic Gold Top, he made the effort to get one from the storeroom that hadn't been played by the entire city, made all the adjustments for me, PLAYED IT and sold me a guitar that, according to the musician friend, plays as well as any Gibson. [/quote']

 

Yesterday I went to GC. I mentioned to the guy working there that a certain Epi acoustic needed it's truss rod adjusted before it got worse.

I build guitars.. I know what I was looking at.

When you leave a guitar with a big bow in the neck.. most likely NO tension on the rod at all.. you risk messing it up so that it wont adjust out evenly at all.

It's hard on the frets, it's hard on the neck, it's hard on the rod.

He didn't even look at me, he just walked away.

 

I constantly worry over action when I build a guitar, or adjust one. I want to be sure the custome has the full range of adjustment for lowest or higher action, because often I ship the guitars and without knowing the persons true preference, in person, that range is all I've got to use to make him happy.

 

so while I was in there I checked the action on, oh probably fifteen guitars and a few basses.

None were properly adjusted except a used Daisy Rock.

 

Some were way out of whack.. inviting more serious problems.

they sounded bad, they played bad, and they looked sad and lonely.

 

I've been told GC guys are warned to not adjust any guitar until after the sale.

Heh.. easy to figure the why out on that, isn't it?

 

This GC had a luthier doing a fret level crown and polish on an acoustic right in the store. I watched him. Pretty good work, nice tools.

They should have put him to work protecting their customers from manufacture error.

No store should sell you a guitar without at least a free adjustment of intonation and action.

It's like buying a new car with loose lug nuts.

Sure you can drive it a few blocks... but then.

 

The sad thing is that the epis need so very little to start with.

Even my own humble lp studio, which I bought just to see what it was like.. took very little time and effort to make better, easily acceptable.

And to see the continuance of the 1960s music store ethos, which I grew up with, and which pretty much says, here it is, here's what it costs, now go away.. well, it's just sad. and especially so since there is such a boom in guitars.

 

And not to focus on GC. I go there, I have the card, I buy stuff. A lot of stores are like this.

I blame incest, since so many of the stores have identical genethics.

 

TWANG