mr.twistyneck Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Yo - Iconoclast - A few things: Yes, Epiphone had scrap. It got sold to a certain company that refurbed it. All guitars that went thru that company at the time I worked there were stamped "USED" on the back of the headstock, and were relabeled with "new" serial numbers (generated by a program I wrote). This was to satisfy the agreement with the manufacturer. You are correct, there was no factory warranty on the guitars once they had been stamped "USED" and re-numbered. The guitars were refurbed (ie: run through a shop) and graded on appearance, Clean for the nicer items, Boneyard for the slightly scuffed ones, and Woodpile for the playable but ugly ones. These were marketed mostly to used music stores, consignment shops and pawn shops. For a time, the company did business on eBay, but no longer deals directly with the public. This company not only dealt with Epiphone, but with just about every other company that ever imported guitars into the USA. At the time, there was no USA made scrap coming from Gibson, Fender or any other *major* US manufacturer. Every now and then, a slew of 2nd's would come through, and these were marked "2nd" and still carried a factory warranty and were sold as such, commanding a higher price. When I left that company, I started my own, named after my eBay selling id - "mr.twistyneck". However you are wrong about dumpster diving at Gibson. That was done by a fellow who used to work at Gibson, and ended up running a company for awhile that made unique little folk-acoustic type instruments out of scrap parts. No doubt about it - he was sneaking in under the tarp and grabbing the guitars that were being sawn into four and five parts. He would then meticulously glue them back together, however they were true Frankensteins. Also, it was a big no-no to try and fetch scrap out behind Gibson, and they eventually shut him down. What I did was different. I bought everything that the refurb company was throwing in the dumpster, from the company, and resold it on eBay, starting each auction at a dollar. I represented it as utter crap, made no claim that it could be fixed, and told my customers that they would be better off making clocks or folk art out of it. What surprised me was that I ended up with about 53% repeat business, mostly from hobbyists and members of Global church organizations who were wealthy and bored. They would buy up the firewood, spend their time fixing it, then ship it out of the country and give it to poor kids who had nothing. I had a great time doing this, and have no regrets. Unfortunately, my price from my sole supplier was based on the items being trash, and were priced accordingly. When my supplier saw the margins that I made on the eBay auctions, he got greedy and started his own eBay division, and jacked my prices, and after selling items at a loss for a year or so (and going bankrupt in the process) I gave it up and left the salvage business altogether. I guess it didn't work out well for my supplier either, because he eventually walked his entire eBay department out of the building, handcuffed, with police escort when he found out they were stealing good instruments and selling them behind his back right out of his own building - on eBay no less. Somewhere out there is a ton of really great crap for hobbyists to play with, but I don't know where it goes, nor do I have any interest in pursuing any opportunities in the salvage instrument business ever again. But I re-iterate: I am not the cat who dumpster dived at *GIBSON*. Not me. I *bought* my scrap fair and square and re-sold it, and I'm proud of it. thanks - mr.twistyneck Re: check out this guitar (Iconoclast) Posted: 10:06:50 am on 12/12/2007 Modified: Never I think this has been discussed here before but with Epiphone there are: Seconds- Guitars with cosmetic flaws that don't affect performance or playability sold through the authorized dealer network at a discount. Refurbs or "R"- Guitars that were returned for easy finish repairs from being damaged in shipping or shop wear or for hardware or electronic repairs and replacement. These are sold through authorized dealers with warranties . ...and there are Used- These are guitars with serious issues which may or may not be repairable but instruments Epiphone has withdrawn warranty coverage for. These are sold at auctions as is to whoever and are then repaired and re-sold such as on E Bay-Not the best bet for buying a guitar but sometimes it's possible to get lucky. A few years back there was a guy on E Bay who became known as the "Nashville Dumpster Diver"- or his user name on E Bay- "Mr twistyneck". This guy had this fantastic story of finding all these unfinished Gibsons in a barn outside of Nashville that had been there "since maybe the late 50's" but again there wasn't any Nashville Gibson factory in the late 50's so the story was a crock. Anyway, this guy would retrieve these cut up guitars from the Gibson dumpsters,glue them back together, slap on hardware (that he probably got from the same dumpsters) and sell them on E Bay. Now the standard Gibson cut job was neck at the headstock, neck at the body and body into two pieces so there was a lot of gluing involved but he did sell a few of them before Gibson finally shut him down. Uncle Al- Your friendly neighbourhood iconoclast. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphs1978 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 blah blah blah.. i made it to about the 2nd line befor i got lost ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brad1 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Lost? It was long. But it sure wasn't hard to follow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphs1978 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Lost? It was long. But it sure wasn't hard to follow. just got tired of reading his bantering thats all Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I may have confused the crap you were selling with the crap that someone else was selling on E Bay-If it wasn't you that was piecing together the cut up Gibsons and selling them on E Bay with the story of them being found in a barn in Tennessee then I stand corrected and you have my apology for this confusion on my part. Upon further recollection I do recall your auctions as being humorous and honest-so much so that the user name stuck in my head though the other association was apparently erroneous. Again, my apology for the mistake. I do though have a problem with factory rejects being labeled "used" when in fact they were factory rejected and deemed unsuitable for sale. Doing cursory repair and cosmetic refurbishment and then re-selling these guitars is a great dis-service to the buying public and ultimately the guitar maker. Cosmetic seconds and guitars requiring minor repair are one thing, guitars with "twisted necks", improper neck sets, incorrect bridge sets and other serious structural issues shouldn't be allowed to be sold without the defect being stipulated. A few years back I helped out during Christmas season at a friend's shop (Gibson/Epiphone dealer) doing quick set ups and unpacking the arriving stock. Of 36 Epiphone guitars that arrived in one batch 11 of them had serious enough issues to require being returned. I also happened to be there when the rep came to get them. I made the joke-"I guess Mars(still in business at the time) will be getting a new shipment in now" and the rep replied, "no, a lot of these will probably end up on E Bay" as "used" guitars." These guitars, at all levels of the spectrum from LP-100's to Sheratons were junk with bad necks and neck sets. To be fair, this particular shipment wasn't indicative of usual Epiphone quality but there were usually a few in every shipment that had to go back and this was true of all the manufacturers. When this crap makes it to E Bay and someone is going to spend their money on it expecting a "used" guitar without any serious issues well, then I have a problem and that is not to insinuate this is what you were doing. Again, my apologies for the confusion. and Al's your uncle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 blah blah blah.. i made it to about the 2nd line befor i got lost ... Maybe should get that attention problem looked at huh? They do have meds for that. Now if you were who the post was directed then there might be a problem but I took care of it. Thanx for looking though. ...and Al's your uncle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Memphs1978 Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 I may have confused the crap you were selling with the crap that someone else was selling on E Bay-If it wasn't you that was piecing together the cut up Gibsons and selling them on E Bay with the story of them being found in a barn in Tennessee then I stand corrected and you have my apology for this confusion on my part. Upon further recollection I do recall your auctions as being humorous and honest-so much so that the user name stuck in my head though the other association was apparently erroneous. Again' date=' my apology for the mistake. I do though have a problem with factory rejects being labeled "used" when in fact they were factory rejected and deemed unsuitable for sale. Doing cursory repair and cosmetic refurbishment and then re-selling these guitars is a great dis-service to the buying public and ultimately the guitar maker. Cosmetic seconds and guitars requiring minor repair are one thing, guitars with "twisted necks", improper neck sets, incorrect bridge sets and other serious structural issues shouldn't be allowed to be sold without the defect being stipulated. A few years back I helped out during Christmas season at a friend's shop (Gibson/Epiphone dealer) doing quick set ups and unpacking the arriving stock. Of 36 Epiphone guitars that arrived in one batch 11 of them had serious enough issues to require being returned. I also happened to be there when the rep came to get them. I made the joke-"I guess Mars(still in business at the time) will be getting a new shipment in now" and the rep replied, "no, a lot of these will probably end up on E Bay" as "used" guitars." These guitars, at all levels of the spectrum from LP-100's to Sheratons were junk with bad necks and neck sets. To be fair, this particular shipment wasn't indicative of usual Epiphone quality but there were usually a few in every shipment that had to go back and this was true of all the manufacturers. When this crap makes it to E Bay and someone is going to spend their money on it expecting a "used" guitar without any serious issues well, then I have a problem and that is not to insinuate this is what you were doing. Again, my apologies for the confusion. and Al's your uncle.[/quote'] no need for an apologie.. if hes selling junk then shame on him for tryin to make a few bucks on someones else's expence Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 no need for an apologie.. if hes selling junk then shame on him for tryin to make a few bucks on someones else's expence To be completely fair I did confuse his E Bay user name with someone else doing much more unscrupulous business there. "Mr. Twisty Neck" did sell total garbage but as I now recall, he never represented it as being anything else and it was stuff someone could possibly have made use of. It was unfair of me to label him as a culprit and hence, my apology to him for the confusion. ...and Al's your uncle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vic Flick Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 What surprised me was that I ended up with about 53% repeat business... I was one of them back around 2002, bought a few items from you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sexygibson Posted February 6, 2008 Share Posted February 6, 2008 Okay folks , the shows over; move along. Al apologized, end of story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mr.twistyneck Posted February 7, 2008 Author Share Posted February 7, 2008 Al - thanks, I figured it was just a mix up. The "USED" stamp was something that was devised so there could be no mixup between the refurbs and the 2nds. In fact, it worked well enough that Epiphone actually started stamping them "USED" before they were picked up at the warehouse in Nashville. Not sure what they do nowadays. At any rate, for whatever reason the subpar stuff was piling up at Epiphone (and every other company that imported), and it is against human nature to throw away potential dollars, so.... it's good to be there with a ton of cash and a big truck. I used to rant about Gibson not letting anything but a first out - but in hindsight I understand why they took that position. No argument there. Also, apologies for the length of the original post. Sheesh. jerrymac - nice to hear from you. I'm outta here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 interesting thread... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daneman Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Hey Uncle Al,did you kidnap Paris Hilton's dog? Been wondering since I 1st saw your avatar LOL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Hey Uncle Al' date='did you kidnap Paris Hilton's dog? Been wondering since I 1st saw your avatar LOL.[/quote']Actually the dog is the first product out of my "Uncle Al's Custom Dog Shop"-I figured since people like distressed furniture and leather jackets and they pay stupid money for guitars that look like they're fifty years old why not come up with a process to make a dog look fifty years old?...the dogs aren't real keen about the coffee grounds treatment or the high UV exposure..which doesn't do a lot for their nice shiny coats.. and microwaving them does tend to cause strange malignant growths as you can see. but people do seem to be interested in having an "Anti-Foo Foo" dog...those cutesy little mutts are so last decade..now, having one like "Apocalypto" here will make you the envy of your neighbourhood right into the coming nuclear holocaust where you can proudly say your mutant mutt was an original...send me you dogs and I'll gladly relic them for you...be the first on your block to have the Keith Richards of dogs. ...and Al's your uncle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcwillow777 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Very funny Al! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rented Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 microwaving ...and Al's your uncle. All of a sudden, I seem to be in the mood for a Hot Pocket Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daneman Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 I really dig the stress cracks around the neck too!! Do they get the custom shop car drag too? Just figured that living with Paris would relic a foo foo dog in like a week.My dog doesn't like dryer rides.lol Oh Suplex have you seen or heard Jim Gaffeny's hot pocket comedy routine?Cracks my neck stress w laughter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst1281733995 Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 Custom Dog Shop! I love it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daneman Posted February 7, 2008 Share Posted February 7, 2008 "Honey, what are you doing?" "I'm relicing the dog" Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha That kills me uncle Al !! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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