More Epiphone in April's Guitar World

[Vic Flick]

Two more Epiphone articles in April's Guitar World, a review of the Les Paul Ultra II and an article about the Qingdao factory.

 

The Ultra II is "...affordable ...revolutionary acoustic tones ...superb quality." "The NanoMag acoustic pickup, specifically, is a marvel ...I'd like to see it as a standard option on all Les Pauls."

 

Thank goodness, I just ordered one yesterday.

 

The Qingdao factory "...sets the bar for China's musical standards, and the proof is in the products. If you want to see how good a Chinese-made guitar can get, check out some of the latest Epiphone Les Paul models." Some cool photos as well, including a photo of Jim Rosenberg.

 

This issue is quite a feather in the cap for Epi!!! Check it out!!!

[daneman]

I know I'm totally blown away by my Qingdoa G-400,just hard to believe how nice of a job they've done!

And jerrymac's gettin a Ultra II..Sweet!!!Congrats jerry!!!

Now we'll get an unbiased review!!

[copper1281734000]

That NanoMag pickup sounds like it's going to be really cool on this guitar. Post pics when it comes!

[Guest]

Two more Epiphone articles in April's Guitar World' date=' a review of the Les Paul Ultra II and an article about the Qingdao factory.

........

 

This issue is quite a feather in the cap for Epi!!! Check it out!!!

 

/quote']

 

C'mon Jerry, you can't possibly be *that* naive at your age. You know how that game works. Guitar rags make their money by selling advertising to guitar makers. All those manufacturer profile articles are adjuncts directly related to the advertising contracts. What do you think they're going to say about a cash cow like Gibson/Epiphone? That the company is in with the oppressive, totalitarian, Chinese Communist government to hire and exploit Chinese citizens (many of them kids) and pay them twenty dollars a week to make guitars in some hideous factory in a country where there's little concern about ethical, environmental or human rights concerns ? Sure, the photos of the factories make them look very nice. I've seen propaganda photos of the Auschwitz and Dachau "relocation camps" from World War two that made them look like summer camps too. Guitar rag reviews and company profiles are worthless as far as any accurate, objective representation of the products go. It's all about money the companies throw the way of the magazine in the form of advertising revenue. Oh wow! A photo of Jim Rosenberg-be still my fluttering heart. Enjoy the guitar photos and take everything else you read in any guitar magazine as paid advertising because that's exactly what it is. That is not saying the products advertized are crap-that's saying don't believe everything you read in a guitar magazine or at least take it with a few grains of salt. Geez.

 

...and Al's your uncle.

[Vic Flick]

Two more Epiphone articles in April's Guitar World' date=' a review of the Les Paul Ultra II and an article about the Qingdao factory.

........

 

This issue is quite a feather in the cap for Epi!!! Check it out!!!

 

/quote']

 

C'mon Jerry, you can't possibly be *that* naive at your age. You know how that game works. Guitar rags make their money by selling advertising to guitar makers. All those manufacturer profile articles are adjuncts directly related to the advertising contracts. What do you think they're going to say about a cash cow like Gibson/Epiphone? That the company is in with the oppressive, totalitarian, Chinese Communist government to hire and exploit Chinese citizens (many of them kids) and pay them twenty dollars a week to make guitars in some hideous factory in a country where there's little concern about ethical, environmental or human rights concerns ? Sure, the photos of the factories make them look very nice. I've seen propaganda photos of the Auschwitz and Dachau "relocation camps" from World War two that made them look like summer camps too. Guitar rag reviews and company profiles are worthless as far as any accurate, objective representation of the products go. It's all about money the companies throw the way of the magazine in the form of advertising revenue. Oh wow! A photo of Jim Rosenberg-be still my fluttering heart. Enjoy the guitar photos and take everythThe feather ing else you read in any guitar magazine as paid advertising because that's exactly what it is. That is not saying the products advertized are crap-that's saying don't believe everything you read in a guitar magazine or at least take it with a few grains of salt. Geez.

 

...and Al's your uncle.

 

 

 

 

 

Geez back. Epiphone got 3 big articles in one issue, that's the feather in their cap. Not small blurbs. A multi-page history of the Company, a two page review & two pages about the factory. I am fairly certain that they're quite happy at the Epiphone office.

 

And anyone who compares photos of a factory to photos of a Nazi concentration camps doesn't have a freakin' clue. And you know what, if I was given the choice of being naive and being a cynical old fart, I'd pick naive every time.

[Notes_Norton]

<...> What do you think they're going to say about a cash cow like Gibson/Epiphone? That the company is in with the oppressive' date=' totalitarian, Chinese Communist government to hire and exploit Chinese citizens (many of them kids) and pay them twenty dollars a week to make guitars in some hideous factory in a country where there's little concern about ethical, environmental or human rights concerns ? <...>

[/quote']

 

I spent a month in China. Before going I heard US Propaganda about how terrible the country was, and I found it not quite like it is described.

 

The worst thing about China is air pollution. The entire eastern half of the country (and perhaps the west, but I went from the Great Wall to Hong Kong) is as polluted as the Ohio River Valley (from coal plants).

 

While China may not exercise proper human rights for its criminals (although I don't think they are any worse than we are at Gitmo and other "war on terror" facilities), it seems to be pretty good for the non-criminals. You can walk in public parks in huge multi-million population cities (similar to Central Park in NY) without fear of being robbed and/or molested. In fact, on a stroll through a park in Beijing, I came across elderly couples ballroom dancing to a boom box on a concrete slab in a very dimly lit area of a park. To me that is human rights, the right to be on the street without being fearful -- in fact -- that is the definition of civilization -- and that makes Chinese society more civilized than ours.

 

I didn't see beggars or homeless people anywhere. And I did a lot of walking. I saw clean streets and no graffiti - I understand that if you can't get a job, the government will give you one instead of welfare, even if the job is sweeping the sidewalks and streets.

 

And although China is officially communist, I saw a lot of capitalism there, from privately run stores to street markets. People talked about the Chinese stock market and how their investments were doing at the time. It is not communism as Mao planned, but a hybrid between socialism and capitalism.

 

I visited a few factories, and I did find hard working people, many of them young, but I would say post-school age, working very hard. The Chinese seem to have a very strong work ethic - much like we did in the US in the golden age of US civilization. You probably don't hear a Chinese equivalent of "Take it slow" and "Take it easy" like you do here in the US.

 

I went to the equivalent of an elementary school in the US and heard very young students playing Mozart on the piano and classics on other musical instruments. Like the way the Chinese work, they study very hard.

 

Of course, if there are "slave factories" I wouldn't have been allowed to see them.

 

I came away from China very impressed with the people. Of course, where ever I have visited in the world, I have found the people pretty much the same. Most people want to live in peace, bring up a family, and make things a little better for their children than they had it.

 

What gets in the way of this is mostly government and huge, greedy people/corporations.

 

Their government is different, and with the differences, some things are better there and some things are worse there. But that's the way it is with different governments and different economic systems.

 

I don't want to sound like I am dissing the USA. I choose to live here because I like it here. But there are definitely things I would change about the USA if I could, and I go to the ballot box to try to pick the people that I think will help change things for the better (unfortunately, the people I pick hardly ever win).

 

Sorry if I got on a rant here, but I get a little disturbed when I hear what seems to me to be nationalism. Rampant nationalism was the root of two world wars. I agree with patriotism (and believe I am a patriot) but I am very cautious about extreme nationalism.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

[Guest]

 

 

Geez back. Epiphone got 3 big articles in one issue' date=' that's the feather in their cap. Not small blurbs. A multi-page history of the Company, a two page review & two pages about the factory. I am fairly certain that they're quite happy at the Epiphone office.

 

And anyone who compares photos of a factory to photos of a Nazi concentration camps doesn't have a freakin' clue. And you know what, if I was given the choice of being naive and being a cynical old fart, I'd pick naive every time.

[/quote']

 

My point exactly...3 big articles..now watch the Epiphone advertising increase in the coming months. I don't know if they're happy at Epiphone but I'll sure bet they're hoping it works for the money they put into it. Magazines make their money selling advertising. If you don't think there isn't a package deal that includes feature articles then you are in deed naive. Being aware of life's little scams isn't being cynical. I guess you also missed the point in that the comparison wasn't about concentration camps to factories but rather how perceptions can be manipulated with rosy pictures of not so rosy places so I guess it was you who didn't grab that clue. Happy trails.

 

...and Al's your uncle.

[sexygibson]

Not picking sides here but I havent bought a guitar magazine in years because of all the questionable advertizing practices.

[Vic Flick]

Not picking sides here but I havent bought a guitar magazine in years because of all the questionable advertizing practices.

 

 

My nephew gave me a subscription for Christmas, I got the first issue Tuesday and the April issue today. At this rate, my year subscription will run out next week.

[sexygibson]

Quite a present , huh Jerry !

[Guest]

 

I spent a month in China. Before going I heard US Propaganda about how terrible the country was' date=' and I found it not quite like it is described.

 

The worst thing about China is air pollution. The entire eastern half of the country (and perhaps the west, but I went from the Great Wall to Hong Kong) is as polluted as the Ohio River Valley (from coal plants).

 

While China may not exercise proper human rights for its criminals (although I don't think they are any worse than we are at Gitmo and other "war on terror" facilities), it seems to be pretty good for the non-criminals. You can walk in public parks in huge multi-million population cities (similar to Central Park in NY) without fear of being robbed and/or molested. In fact, on a stroll through a park in Beijing, I came across elderly couples ballroom dancing to a boom box on a concrete slab in a very dimly lit area of a park. To me that is human rights, the right to be on the street without being fearful -- in fact -- that is the definition of civilization -- and that makes Chinese society more civilized than ours.

 

I didn't see beggars or homeless people anywhere. And I did a lot of walking. I saw clean streets and no graffiti - I understand that if you can't get a job, the government will give you one instead of welfare, even if the job is sweeping the sidewalks and streets.

 

And although China is officially communist, I saw a lot of capitalism there, from privately run stores to street markets. People talked about the Chinese stock market and how their investments were doing at the time. It is not communism as Mao planned, but a hybrid between socialism and capitalism.

 

I visited a few factories, and I did find hard working people, many of them young, but I would say post-school age, working very hard. The Chinese seem to have a very strong work ethic - much like we did in the US in the golden age of US civilization. You probably don't hear a Chinese equivalent of "Take it slow" and "Take it easy" like you do here in the US.

 

I went to the equivalent of an elementary school in the US and heard very young students playing Mozart on the piano and classics on other musical instruments. Like the way the Chinese work, they study very hard.

 

Of course, if there are "slave factories" I wouldn't have been allowed to see them.

 

I came away from China very impressed with the people. Of course, where ever I have visited in the world, I have found the people pretty much the same. Most people want to live in peace, bring up a family, and make things a little better for their children than they had it.

 

What gets in the way of this is mostly government and huge, greedy people/corporations.

 

Their government is different, and with the differences, some things are better there and some things are worse there. But that's the way it is with different governments and different economic systems.

 

I don't want to sound like I am dissing the USA. I choose to live here because I like it here. But there are definitely things I would change about the USA if I could, and I go to the ballot box to try to pick the people that I think will help change things for the better (unfortunately, the people I pick hardly ever win).

 

Sorry if I got on a rant here, but I get a little disturbed when I hear what seems to me to be [i']nationalism[/i]. Rampant nationalism was the root of two world wars. I agree with patriotism (and believe I am a patriot) but I am very cautious about extreme nationalism.

 

Insights and incites by Notes

 

My brother is currently the Manager of Asian Financial Operations for one of the big three auto makers and deals with China daily and visits every few months. The neighbor behind me spent ten years in China as a lawyer specializing in Chinese industrial/corporate law for another of the big three auto makers, my son in law was a buyer for a company that makes and supplies the leather for seats to the big three and regularly visited China so I've discussed the situation in China with some pretty knowledgeable people concerning the labor/working conditions situation there.. Not that I don't think you gained some insight in your month-long vacation. But they've all said the same thing, horrible place to live or work.

 

It's too bad they didn't take you off the tourist track. You would have seen the twelve year olds doing manual labor for ten hours a day with two fifteen minute breaks and a common bucket at the work stations so their bladder and bowel needs don't interrupt their work ...all so that we're able to buy cheap stuff at Wal*Mart. You would have seen where habeas corpus is non-existent in the legal system. You would have seen where women are hired over men in some jobs because they're said to be more easily controlled by physical force... since in many places physical confrontations between labor and management do occur quite frequently. You would have seen where these labor disputes are resolved by taking the offenders to other factories where they then work for nothing and live there...for years... rather than receiving their usual pittance and are usually joined there by those who also think that the official version of Communism is open to interpretation and free enterprise. Though the government does ignore that same "free" enterprise when it involves ripping us off by counterfeiting every thing from Gucci bags to Gibson guitars... I read that one fourth of the Viagra sold in the US is actually sub-standard counterfeit crap made in China..and this even gets into the wholesale pharmacy systems and is unknowingly sold as genuine by places like Rite Aid and Walgreens. It's one thing to maybe mess with your sex life but what happens when it becomes possible and profitable to counterfeit and sell ineffective, substandard and probably dangerous AIDS or cancer meds?... You also would have seen that the concepts of safety-conscious work places and workers compensation... and humane working conditions rarely exist beyond "model" factories that are open to scrutiny solely for propaganda purposes .

 

I guess people feel a lot better spending their American pay checks for Chinese crap if they think the workers are at least being treated OK...Without further mention of lead paint in children's toys, poisoned pet food...or that pesky and bothersome global air pollution and ozone depletion that comes courtesy of China, I'll just say that I'm no fan of what the U.S. has become in the world view but Gitmo and our use of torture, as horrendous as that is and as ashamed as I am of America for using that methodology, is minuscule when compared to the legal system status quo in China. I'm certain where you were allowed to be it was quite secure and free of crime...but the concept of civilization isn't based upon fear or the absence of fear...it's based upon freedom...and freedom of personal expression...if you are truly free then you are not in fear...if you think there's no fear or or crime or even the slightest semblance of true freedom in China then you may need to cut back a bit on whatever it is you're inhaling... and yes, I also use that ballot box. and I'm as far removed as possibly from that Fox Nut Channel -watching, flag waving, right wing element as possible but still consider myself a patriot...and yes, I also consider myself a socialist..or perhaps more a social humanist.. and no, you're right, it doesn't always seem like the actual winner wins... you talked about the youth labor...guess you didn't totally grasp that situation either...you see, when they're not the gifted children of high ranking party members taking violin and piano lessons and performing for the tourists then they're making big screen TVs and toasters for fifty cents a day...

 

You practically repeated my entire indictment of China and then disputed it? . I don't quite get that...I never said it was about the Chinese people...it's their government, it's our government, it's Wal*Mart. It's any corporation...and that includes Gibson, without enough social conscience to avoid profit at the expense of human rights and global environmental impact... or one that doesn't grasp that without a solid domestic economic base there's going to be no one to buy the products they've found a way to make cheaply elsewhere because no one here will have any jobs so finding the cheapest labor and materials isn't always conducive to good business in the long run...

 

It's not necessarily a call to blind nationalism but if you or anyone else doesn't have some sense of national concern and caring then you really do need to move elsewhere because as much of a left wing, liberal nut job I am, if you or anyone else doesn't have enough TRUE patriotism to at least be supportive of the social and economic interests of this country you need to find somewhere you do feel strongly enough to care and I'm not talking about patriotism as blindly following the policies of our government but rather supporting the social and economic interests and values of our people first and then in turn supporting those interests of all people everywhere.

 

oh, and by the way, the two world wars were also won by utilizing and instilling a sense of extreme nationalism so it isn't necessarily always a negative and can play both ways.

 

All this because I wanted to point out that you perhaps should understand that what's written in guitar magazines (and any product advertising-based magazine) is slanted and influenced by advertising revenue and before you gush too much you should know that essentially it's all advertising. Ever see any product "show down" where any of the participants' products were truly criticized and torn apart? There's always some positive in everything and never a "this is a piece of junk and you're an idiot if you spend your money for it". That's because the subscribers of the magazine may own one of those products and pissing off the subscribers or potential future advertisers isn't good business either. Rant and ramble over. Wanna buy a dog?

 

...and Al's your uncle.

[rented]

Pay no attention to Uncle, he's just upset they put "baby hit me one more time" back in the hospital. Once she gets back out and the Vegas bookies start taking action, he'll be back to himself.

 

This message brought to you by...

 

[rented]

Now if this was April and this guitar was in fact an Epiphone...

 

 

This thread might have some meaning... Just sayin.

[Guest]

Pay no attention to Uncle, he's just upset they put "baby hit me one more time" back in the hospital. Once she gets back out and the Vegas bookies start taking action, he'll be back to himself.

 

say wha'?..I thought I just read where they let her out...not that I don't think she shouldn't be kept in six point restraints whilst heavily sedated for like.. forever and not allowed near her womb droppings ever again.. Left to her own devices though I'd say she has about as much time left as a Valium at Amy Winehouse's place....now *that's* a piece of work--<long drawn-out whistle sound>----Like Courtney Love meets Wendy O. Wiliams.... I also read where there was this Svengali-like figure involved with Brit doing mind control on her which is like what? one switch and an off button? ...sh!t...why do I even care? Heidi Fleiss got busted for drugs...now once upon a time she was...ermm...ummm interesting... back when she first hit the news and I expressed interest and noted that she had a certain *something*..my ex would say "what a sleaze! how can you find someone who's been involved in what she has even slightly appealing... and I'd say"Dear, I think you answered your own question"....Well, it's almost time for E's Hollywood news---------Gotta run..

 

...and Al's your uncle.

[rented]

Well, I kind of let that post go since I discovered April (Didn't want to shoot for post overkill there) but since you caught it, ok Brit Brit it shall be...

 

Yeah man, she's back in the padded room. Her lawyer was living with her for the last year or so. Dominating her and yelling at her and brainwashing her. Her folks took out a restraining order on the bum, this is what they say at least. I caught it all on TMZ...thats the new CNN.

 

Haven't you heard?

[thunderstruck507]

I'm sure epiphone sends the magazines plenty of press/news releases, its a simple thing really. If the magazine needs content or finds something interesting enough they run the article. Not saying there's not a chance someone might slip someone something to get a story in...but a lot of the time its a matter of choice on the part of the editor.

 

The Ultra II with its new pickup is a decently big news story for the guitar world, so I'm not suprised there are stories. How much stuff is there really to write about? Honestly?

 

just take anything in any magazine with a grain of salt...they won't badmouth potential advertisers even if its the biggest garbage on the planet...just like where I work selling car audio I am not allowed to tell customers Jensen and Sony car audio and TomToms are crap even if they are.

[Vic Flick]

 

My point exactly...3 big articles..now watch the Epiphone advertising increase in the coming months. I don't know if they're happy at Epiphone but I'll sure bet they're hoping it works for the money they put into it. Magazines make their money selling advertising. If you don't think there isn't a package deal that includes feature articles then you are in deed naive. Being aware of life's little scams isn't being cynical. I guess you also missed the point in that the comparison wasn't about concentration camps to factories but rather how perceptions can be manipulated with rosy pictures of not so rosy places so I guess it was you who didn't grab that clue. Happy trails.

 

...and Al's your uncle.

 

 

Not much of a point' date=' Icon. Guitar manufactures advertise in magazines about guitars. It's a scam!!! And magazines are reluctant to trash their advertisers. Stop the presses!!!

 

We're not talking Consumers Report which does not accept advertising so that they can remain unbiased. We are talking about a magazine designed for entertainment. Ads in the magazine are like commercials on TV. You wouldn't expect a TV host to tell the audience that his sponsor's products are crap, would you???

 

 

Now look at what you said about the concentration camps:

 

What do you think they're going to say about a cash cow like Gibson/Epiphone? That the company is in with the oppressive, totalitarian, Chinese Communist government to hire and exploit Chinese citizens (many of them kids) and pay them twenty dollars a week to make guitars in some hideous factory in a country where there's little concern about ethical, environmental or human rights concerns ? Sure, the photos of the factories make them look very nice. I've seen propaganda photos of the Auschwitz and Dachau "relocation camps" from World War two that made them look like summer camps too.

 

You flat out claim that Gibson/Epiphone is an accomplice with the Chinese Communist government exploiting Chinese workers, kids, violating their human rights... You then mention the "hideous factory" they're forced to work in... The violation of "...ethical, environmental or human rights concerns'... Then you say "...the photos of the factories make them look very nice. I've seen propaganda photos of the Auschwitz and Dachau "relocation camps" from World War two that made them look like summer camps too." Clearly, you charge Gibson with unethical practices, and covering it up with propaganda photos like the Germans did with the relocation camps.

 

First of all, you made some very serious allegations. Back up what you claim with evidence that Gibson utilizes child labor, pays slave wages and forces workers to work in hideous factory conditions. That is outrageous, and I'm calling you out. Show us evidence that Gibson is involved in those activities. And not anecdotal BS, real proof.

 

To suggest that there is some sort of moral equivalance between the photos of the Gibson factory and German concentration camps is appalling. Gibson makes guitars in that factory, Hitler killed millions in those camps. It is an insult to those who died in those camps to imply that Gibson is creating propaganda just like the Nazis did during WWII.

[Vic Flick]

 

My brother is currently the Manager of Asian Financial Operations for one of the big three auto makers and deals with China daily and visits every few months. The neighbor behind me spent ten years in China as a lawyer specializing in Chinese industrial/corporate law for another of the big three auto makers' date=' my son in law was a buyer for a company that makes and supplies the leather for seats to the big three and regularly visited China so I've discussed the situation in China with some pretty knowledgeable people concerning the labor/working conditions situation there.. [/quote']

 

 

Your brother deals with the oppressive, totalitarian, Chinese Communist government that hires and exploits Chinese citizens. Your neighbor spent ten years in China as a lawyer??? Your son-in-law regularly visited China??? Do all you live on a commune??? Aren't they guilty of the same thing you charge Gibson with doing???

 

You know, this was a thread about some articles that some people on the Epiphone forum might find interesting. But you can't resist injecting you're negative opinions and your xenophobia and your political propaganda. Why are you always preaching and speaking down to people??? What a drag.

[Vic Flick]

Quite a present ' date=' huh Jerry ![/quote']

 

 

Not really, I got him a Springsteen ticket for April's concert in LA. The good part about it is I'm going with him.

[tvyellow]

Yeah, but what's better? An Epiphone or a Gibson? lol

[smokestack]

Nobody's going to win the ethical arguments above [and we've had them around here before] but one thing is for sure.

A large number of the folks around here buy Epiphone Guitars because they can't afford Gibsons...or the luxury of taking the high moral ground with regard to these issues.

I agree with much of the stuff quoted about China.

I also believe that eventually they'll be dragged kicking and screaming into line with the greater freedoms and rights that we take for granted in the west. China's subscription to the capitalist economy will drive it.

Workers in China and other blossoming world economies are exploited...just like workers in the Western world were as recently as 75 or 100 years ago !

We have to careful that we don't behave a bit like the self righteous ex-smoker who only gave up last week... and is now a clean air Nazi !

 

Some folks worry about the Eastern world's steady and enevitible move to towards dominance of the global economy and how it's killing our industries and traditions.

We all hark back with some sadness to the days of seeing "Made in the USA" or "Made in the UK" on routine everyday objects ... but it's all part of a natural cycle.

There will come a time soon when the typical Chinese is better off... and able to start buying for himself all the goods he manufactures so cheaply for the Western market.

There are a lot of him !

Once domestic demand starts to snowball , China won't be wanting to sell stuff quite so cheaply to us.

We'll eventually have to start making it all ourselves again !

[Vic Flick]

Yeah' date=' but what's better? An Epiphone or a Gibson? lol[/quote']

 

 

Ok, I'll bite this one time. Whichever does the job for you.

[smokestack]

...and as for magazines.

Yes , they're driven by advertising revenue and many of the folks writing and reviewing within their pages are journalists first and guitarists second.

But the mags are great for telling us what's out there.

Enjoy the pictures, enjoy the read.

Then go and trust your own opinions when you play the guitar. Simple

[Vic Flick]

...and as for magazines.

Yes ' date=' they're driven by advertising revenue and many of the folks writing and reviewing within their pages are journalists first and guitarists second.

But the mags are great for telling us what's out there.

Enjoy the pictures, enjoy the read.

Then go and trust your [i']own [/i]opinions when you play the guitar. Simple

 

 

Simple, yet elegantly stated.

[Guest]

 

You flat out claim that Gibson/Epiphone is an accomplice with the Chinese Communist government exploiting Chinese workers' date=' kids, violating their human rights... You then mention the "hideous factory" they're forced to work in... The violation of "...ethical, environmental or human rights concerns'... Then you say "...the photos of the factories make them look very nice. I've seen propaganda photos of the Auschwitz and Dachau "relocation camps" from World War two that made them look like summer camps too." Clearly, you charge Gibson with unethical practices, and covering it up with propaganda photos like the Germans did with the relocation camps.

 

First of all, you made some very serious allegations. Back up what you claim with evidence that Gibson utilizes child labor, pays slave wages and forces workers to work in hideous factory conditions. That is outrageous, and I'm calling you out. Show us evidence that Gibson is involved in those activities. And not anecdotal BS, real proof.

 

To suggest that there is some sort of moral equivalance between the photos of the Gibson factory and German concentration camps is appalling. Gibson makes guitars in that factory, Hitler killed millions in those camps. It is an insult to those who died in those camps to imply that Gibson is creating propaganda just like the Nazis did during WWII.

 

[/quote']

I guess I can understand how you would have an affinity for things Asian but you seem to purposely be being obtuse and missing my point. You gushed over some guitar rag suck up job on Epiphones, I called you on it... Those are BS but you don't want to address that preferring to mis-state what I said- which was nothing about Gibson specifically using child labor but why don't you state categorically that child labor isn't used and exploited in Communist China? Why? because you can't and ever be taken seriously again because you know it is used...But where are Epiphones made...wouldn't want to lose any standing 'round here by saying perhaps Chinese products aren't the best thing to ever happen to the world but that's not even my original point. My point is that guitar magazine guitar reviews are nothing more than ad copy hyperbole and are not accurate assessments of any instruments-please feel free to dispute that. Once again, and I know at your obviously advanced age staying with a single idea is difficult but do try- I never compared the factories to the camps-you did. I said the manipulation of perception by showing that the camps were humane places was much the same kind of tactic as the photos I've seem of the joint venture-which I would say is the same as being in league with- between the Communist Chinese government and Gibson where the factory is clean and the workers all smiling and happy. This is that same kind of mis-perception and manipulation given what is known about the actual conditions in China-again, some want to eat the steak but not think about the cow getting slaughtered so be in denial since it puts your personal choices perhaps in question but please don't insult my intelligence by suggesting that the human rights/labor/working conditions/wages in China are anything but deplorable. Now, again- should anyone read any guitar review in a magazine without considering that the magazine receives most of its revenue from the manufacturers of those reviewed instruments through sales of advertising? One other question, have you hung up Jim Rosenberg's photo in your little music room yet?

 

 

 

...and Al's your uncle.