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Epiphone Casino

wildwood

By wildwood
in Epiphone Electrics

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Hi

 

 

I have spotted an Epiphone Casino on ebay that looks really nice. It says it's a 1983 model and was wondering if anyone had any idea of it's value as I don't no much about Epiphone History.

 

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=170191405961&_trksid=p3907.m32&_trkparms=tab%3DWatching

 

 

Thanks for reading

Well, since I took part in the thread the auction referenced I guess i can take part in this one. For the most part the information stated in the auction is somewhat accurate though I might take exception with the statement about later Japanese reissues being inferior. The guitars made at the Terada factory in Japan are most certainly equal if not superior to the Matsumoku-made Epiphones. The Matsumoku instruments are good instruments but in my opinion they lack the vintage vibe and style of the originals and recent reissues. The colors are nothing that were ever available in the original Kalamazoo- made or the current and recent reissues and the body shape is slightly different... these are of course cosmetic differences and have no impact on the sound or playability of the instruments.

 

For some quick history the original Casino was made in Kalamazoo, Michigan (yes, there's really a town named Kalamazoo and it's about two and a half hours drive west from me though Gibson/Epiphone hasn't been there since 1984) starting in 1961. For the first two years the headstock was a shorter version and the pick up covers and knobs were black. In mid 1963 this changed to nickel-plated pick up covers and hardware and gold knobs and the headstock became more elongated and has remained essentially that shape since then. USA production of the Casino stopped in 1970 but the Japanese line the auction instrument is a part of began in 1975 as a way for Gibson to sell guitars to the domestic Japanese market. Tariffs and importation taxes priced the USA-made Gibson product out of that market so Gibson contracted with Matsumoku which is the parent company of Aria Guitars to product a relatively high end line of instruments to sell in Japan. One of the models in this line as I've said is the Casino model offered in the auction. These were made starting in 1975 and the market was pretty much exclusively Japanese but by 1980 the marketing had become more widespread and they made it to many parts of the world including The US and the UK. As I said, they called these models Casinos but they were more an updated version and lacked the nitro-cellulose finish of the original and if there was a weak point it was the P-90 pickups but even they aren't horrid-they just don't have quite the same tonal articulation as the original and later Gibson-made P-90's. They're quite good guitars on their own, they just aren't real Casino-y in my view compared to the originals and reissues. I also haven't been that enamored with the finishes but other people love them so it is horses for courses. Matsumoku continued to make instruments until 1986 when Epiphone shifted gears and went with the Korean Samick-made models. The Casino wasn't included in this initial product line but at this same time Casinos were being made at Terada exclusively for the Japanese market. It was about 1994 before the first Korean-made Casino appeared and it was made by Peerless, a Korean contract factory. It's pretty much subjective but I've always felt the Matsumoku-made Casinos fell in between the Japanese exclusive Teradas and the Korean-made Peerless Casinos in terms of quality, fit and finish. The Casino as a guitar isn't a very complex instrument to reproduce and an accurate version should able to be created for a reasonable price. I've always thought the Korean-made Peerless instruments were pretty good guitars for the money but I haven't been as impressed with the current Chinese-made Casinos which to me seem much cheaper in feel and lacking a lot of attention to detail. The guitars still both have the various cost cutting issues such as the scarf jointed necks and less than stellar electronics but the Chinese versions I've actually held feel...cheaper or something. Mean while starting in 1987 Terada was making some awesome Epiphone models for the Japanese market including some special editions. Terada also makes the current line of Gretsch models. One of these special Epiphone editions, the Epiphone "'65 Casino" model later became the John Lennon Casino reissue with the moving forward of the neck/body joint and the use of nitro cellulose lacquer for the finish. It then returned to the 17th fret neck joint, received a polyester finish and different machine heads and became the Epiphone Elite series changing its name to Elitist a few years later. These guitars are fun and easy to play and have a lot of sonic versatility. They aren't heavy rock/metal instruments but they most certainly can wail. Playing live venues at high stage levels can be a challenge because these Lil darlings Will screech and cry out like a banshee if you don't remain mindful of the proximity of guitar and amp. There is an art and talent to playing the guitars at loud stage volume but it isn't difficult to master.

The value of the Matsumoku Casinos is right around $600 USD but they can be had for less than that and they get offered for considerably more though the greatest share of them go for around $600. A used Peerless Casino will go for around $450-$500, a used Terada standard Casino can be had for around $800 with a special model such as a "Casino '65" fetching $1000 and more. The standard Elitist Casinos usually go for around $800 to $900 and a second hand Lennon Casino Reissue can go from $1200 to $1600 depending on whether someone REALLY wants it. Vintage Casinos can range from $1800 for a single pick up version to $6.5K for a pristine 1964-1965 two pick up Casino in sunburst- $2K less across the board for Cherry finished examples and $3K less for 1969/1970 models with the neck joining at the 19th fret ($2.5K). As with the similar Gibson ES-330 models that also had the 19th fret neck body joining there isn't the same collectible value as the guitars are considerably different and have very little interest in the collector's world so either the ES-330 or Casino with the 19th fret body joint are going to go for under $3K.

 

As far as your auction goes, it appears that the guitar is what the seller has represented it as which leaves you to determine its value to you. $600 USD could be used as a bench mark but consider the auction guitar doesn't have a hard shell case so knock off $75 and call it a $525 as the starting point from which to go either way as you weigh the differences and and check with your desires for it. If you can get it $550 or less I think you'll do well. Now you have to decide if this is the guitar you want to buy and how much you're going to be willing to bid on it. If it were me there'd most certainly be a cap at $650 if your desire is there and you have bidding competition. Guess you'll just have to jump into the fray and find out. Good luck.

 

...and Al's your uncle.

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frenchie1281734003

frenchie1281734003

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Hi,Wildwood,i take on board all that Iconclast has to say about the Matsumoku Casino`s,with one difference,and that is i think they are better than the Elite/Elitist`s,and unlike the First Terada`s,the Matsumoku`s have a 16 fret neck/body joint(and i feel that adds a difference to the sound).They also in my opinion feel better than the Terada`s. i`ve owned an Elite Casino,i`ve played a" Revolution "Casino,i have had access to a friends 64 Gibson ES330,i`ve also tried several vintage 60`s Kalamazoo originals(mainly in London`s Denmark street,and they do vary in quality).Also i can find no problems with these pickups,they can be very raunchy,and quite subtle,think John Lennons LIVE PEACE IN TORONTO,and you get the idea.Both myself and JerryMac are big fans of the Matsumoku Casino`s,and both of us sold on, our Elite/Elitist`s,and i now own three Matsumoku`s!!(see my first post for pics).Things i like about the Matsumoku`s are the 3 piece laminated neck(i know it`s not an original spec,but it looks good on the blondes,plus Gibson did it on their guitars in the 70/s-early 80`s).The 2 screw TRC,the,5 ply(Burl)Maple used for the bodies,looks better than the bland stuff used on the current ones.I know the colours on these Casino`s aren`t original,but i like the Wine red,the Natural,and the Antique Sunburst.I also like the body shape,it is more Gretch like,but it`s very comfortable.I like the fact that these guitars were 60% hand built,and you can feel that in their necks.I also like the shielded pots that come as standard,with a smooth taper,and haven`t caused me any problems over the years.But most of all i like the fact that they don`t cost a bomb,and i have no desire to own a 65 or Revolution reissue!!!.And i`m pretty sure if you get one you`ll be just as happy.P.S check out Billy Jenkins of the Blues Collective,he is mad but brilliant!(YouTube)and has played a Matsumoku Casino for the last 20 years,also Luther Dickinson of the North Mississippi Allstars,uses one from time to time.

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