mhillier Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Hi, I have a chance to buy a Riviera & 5210TE for £270 each. Both are in good condition. I wanted to know if anyone here has either models and could tell me what they thought of them. Does £275 each sound like a good deal? Are either of these guitars at all collectable? I allready have a 1997 Riviera that I like very much but dont know what a 70's one would be like, I dont have any info on the 5210TE at all. If anyone can help that would be great! Many thanks, Oh I forgot to say both guitars are from the 70's but I dont know what year. Matt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Hi' date=' I have a chance to buy a Riviera & 5210TE for £270 each. Both are in good condition. I wanted to know if anyone here has either models and could tell me what they thought of them. Does £275 each sound like a good deal? Are either of these guitars at all collectable? I allready have a 1997 Riviera that I like very much but dont know what a 70's one would be like, I dont have any info on the 5210TE at all. If anyone can help that would be great! Many thanks, Oh I forgot to say both guitars are from the 70's but I dont know what year. Matt. [/quote'] The model number is actually 5102TE and that's a bolt on neck piece of rubbish from 1971-the only year Epiphone used that model number which happens to be an Aria model with some cosmetic changes made and it's been re-branded 'Epiphone'.. If The Riviera is a Japanese set neck from that period it's one story. If it's just a later version of the 5102TE called an EA-255 "Riviera" it too is a piece of rubbish and £275 for both of them is still high. If the Riviera is a 70's/80's set neck model then you might well be on to something. There were some Epiphones made during that period that are quite good guitars and could very well be worth £275. The other models I would pass on. If the Riviera has a set neck it's head and shoulders above the other model and certainly a consideration at that price. If you can post a photo or even a serial number someone here I'm certain can help you further identify what you're dealing with. Good luck. ...and Al's your uncle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mhillier Posted February 15, 2008 Author Share Posted February 15, 2008 Does anyone know in what ways the 5102TE is a piece of rubbish? Im interested to know. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted February 15, 2008 Share Posted February 15, 2008 Does anyone know in what ways the 5102TE is a piece of rubbish?Im interested to know. Thanks. The 5102TE was part of the first wave of imported Japanese Epiphones in 1971. These were low-end models that as I said, were actually re-labeled, Matsumoku-made Aria guitars. They had bolt-on necks, extremely cheap hardware and electronics and only resembled an Epiphone from any other era in name only. These were some of the guitars that gave "made in Japan" its negative connotation. These guitars were re-named the EA-250 a year later but without any improvements. They were cheap Japanese guitars-end of story. Another year or two later a deluxe model of this guitar came about with the "deluxe part being chintzy gold-plated hardware. This was the EA-255, also at various times called a Casino and a Riviera though having no resemblance or relationship to any Epiphone Casinos or Riviera before or since. Flash forward thirty odd years and there's a guitar culture that desires the vintage and collectible. Since there is a finite number of actual collectible instruments this results in their prices continuing to rise precluding a lot of would be "collectors" from getting in the game so the bar is dropped as far as what defines a "collectible instrument". This creates "niche collectors". Those who collect not necessarily the best examples of and hence expensive, special guitars but say 1950's models from Harmony or Kay or other guitars that in their time may not have been the most expensive but still were adequate instruments. Pretty soon even these become pricey and that bar gets dropped lower to where truly low grade instruments such as these early 70's Epiphone are being sold for a premium and are touted as being collectible so that everyone has access to the game. The problem is that these guitar from the 70's aren't really worthy of any premium. The 5102TE list sold for around $125 in 1971. By my guesstimation £275 is somewhere in the neighbourhood of about $550 USD. For $550 you can nearly buy a new Epiphone Sheraton or Casino and buy a new Dot (a far superior guitar to the 5102TE) for a great deal less so why would you buy a guitar like the 5102TE for such a premium? It has no true collector value except to sucker those who want to pretend to be collectors. To find that level of quality today you'd have to find something maybe made in Ethiopia. It just doesn't make any sense to spend what you've stated for these guitars and the EA-255 "Riviera" isn't any better. Yeah, if you come across one of these for less than £100 ($175 USD) and want to have some fun with it maybe...but £275 gets you a pretty good guitar these days, far exceeding the 5102TE. Do what you wish but unless there's a personal nostalgic reason or if the price is proportionate to its value I can see no reason why anyone would buy these models. As I previously mentioned there were some Japanese Epiphones that were pretty good values from this era (actually a bit later- 1975-1986) but these have set necks, quality materials and hardware adequate electronics and are actually worth £275. If you want a 70's Japanese guitar with some collectibility and can spend £275 I'd strongly suggest you seek out one of these models and leave that other crap alone. ...and Al's your uncle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereohigh Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 If you do a check on UK (US PRICES ARE FAR LOWER THAN OURS) actual sales for these models, and the sa-250 they go for a lot more than £270 and collectors do buy them http://www.rare-guitars.co.uk/rare-guitars.html and think a lot of them its well made and sounds much better than a modern dot, believe ne I have had elite sheratons, modern dots, and this guitar blows them away. I have even been told one was on sale on demark for 725 now that is overpriced,theres a few around on gumtree etc for over £400 £270 is a good price I found one on youtube - sa-250 though http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=wpXmuHy4gbc mine has kalamazoo stamped inside,I think its a pretty early one. and theres no mention of japan on it at all,but I t=hink it is japanese,matsumoku though,is a very respected guitar maker. I know the uk pays more for its vintage guitars than the usa,but these are nice guitars, not cheap rubbish,thats what the guitar stores say about the korean and chinese epiphone models of today, and i think some of them are very nice. "An archtop electric guitar manufactured by Matsumoku and sold 1970 to 1974 or '75 in the United States under the Epiphone brand. Gibson, the owner of Epiphone since the late 1950s, abandoned manufacturing of Epiphone-branded instruments in 1969 and started importing Epiphone-branded instruments from the Matsumoku company in 1970. These instruments were not based on previous Epiphone or Gibson designs.[1] The 5102T was among these first imported Epiphone instruments. It came in one color--redburst, had a maple laminate body (nearly hollow: just a 3/4" square block from top to bottom below the bridge), maple bolt-on neck, two doublecoil pickups with black plastic covers and "staple" poles alongside screw poles, and a vibrato operating similarly to a Bigsby vibrato. In subsequent years changes were made: the pickups became more like Gibson pickups and gained chrome covers, a trapeze tailpiece became available, the "pitchfork" Epiphone logo was added to the pickguard, and in 1972 the model designation was changed to EA-250. There was during the same years also a companion short-scale bass, the 5120 / EA-260. In 1975 or '76 the guitar was replaced by the ET-255.[2]" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereohigh Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 http://www.gumtree.com/london/92/32596092.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereohigh Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220335423901 BOTH LINKS ARE RECENT AND BOTH FOR AROUND £450 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.Nelson Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=220335423901 BOTH LINKS ARE RECENT AND BOTH FOR AROUND £450 Total 70's Japanese crap..not even worthy of consideration.. Mr. Nelson Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereohigh Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 I disagree totally. if the guy has the chance to get one for £270 and can haggle its a good deal, even better if he then sells it on for £450, or if a store in denmark street is selling them for £750 then who knows. Oh and I bought mine from ireland, and when I got it, after being bashed around by delivery guys, it was still in perfect tuning, I was stunned, and it plays and sounds better than a good few modern epiphones I have owned, japanese build is good. so put that in yer roll up and smoke it, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bender 4 Life Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 Nelson, out of curiousity.......what is your opinion on a late 60's Univox Coiley MIJ? I had one years ago, and except for the cheap vibrato system seemed to be a good "cheap guitar". It stayed in tune, and had really good tone thru my 105w 4 channel Univox concert stack. I still have that amp, needing rebuild, and it's plated as ser # 235 made in UK. It was dated by "the amp dr" of San Diego (?) as a 1965 model hybrid. anyhow......this photo is exactly like the 1 I had. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereohigh Posted January 12, 2009 Share Posted January 12, 2009 do you know I am trying to sell mine, but some idiot just accused me of selling chinese fakes as epiphones. probably becasue it doesnt have the giibson inspired headstock that didnt even come into being until much later. really ticked me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
unreal77 Posted January 13, 2009 Share Posted January 13, 2009 I have an EA 250 and love it. The p90s were replaced by humbuckers when I got it but love it. It needs a lot of repairing now, but I'm willing to pay for it. The point is, if the guitars are in good condition and you like them, buy now. If I had the money, I would produce ea 250s with better materials, but hey that's me. my 2 cents. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stereohigh Posted January 14, 2009 Share Posted January 14, 2009 I just got back from rehearsal and used mine, i have a few more expensive guitars, but its a really great guitar. I am now torn about selling it, I have it on ebay and have an offer over £400, but I have had some real ignorant emails. one person saying I am selling chinese guitars, i sent them the links and they then said if it was from that time it should be worth more, just ignorant badly informed people. the guitar on the other hand is a proper beauty, i was only selling to get a les paul type guitar again, after stupidly selling a Gibson and a Tokai, and now missing them badly, my jaguar is nice, but I miss the les paul sound Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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