whammerjammer Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 I'm new to the forum. I just picked up a MIC Nat Casino at GC. I had 2 to chose from, so I picked the one with the better finish and nicer fretboard grain and finish. It was also missing a buzzing that was prominent on the other. Anyway, are their any expert suggestions for removing the black paint that trims out the inside of the 2 f-holes? The finish of this particular guitar is rather good, but that black detail cheapens it a little I think. The Elitist model has the natural finish inside the f-holes. I assume the Lennon nat does too. Any suggestions and techniques are appreciated. The only other pet peeve is that that neck made up of two pieces of wood sandwiched together. On mine they are not stained equally. Is the Elitist two pieces as well, just finished better? Anyway... I'm modding it to look close to a Lennon: black tubing under the (removed) neck-end pickguard screw, gold Grovers on the way, f-holes back to natural (hopefully)... but does anyone have a source for that funky black toggle plate. I'm going to try a r/t plate and reverse it or remove the lettering. For now I fashioned one out a thin piece of black plastic I cut down. Looks legit. Any other Lennon considerations? Overall, despite the MIC part it looks and plays and sounds great. It should, it's twice of what you normally expect to pay for an Indo guitar. Don't hammer me for modding a cheapie. It's just for fun and I can hang it next to my modded Hofner Icon Beatle and my real 4001c64s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst1281733995 Posted March 25, 2008 Share Posted March 25, 2008 1) Anyway' date=' are their any expert suggestions for removing the black paint that trims out the inside of the 2 f-holes? 2) but does anyone have a source for that funky black toggle plate. 3)Overall, despite the MIC part it looks and plays and sounds great. It should, it's twice of what you normally expect to pay for an Indo guitar. 4) Don't hammer me for modding a cheapie. 5) It's just for fun and I can hang it next to my modded Hofner Icon Beatle and my real 4001c64s.[/quote'] 1) Sandpaper 2) Hardware store... After you get the sandpaper. 3) They're not Indonesian, they're made in mainland China at Epiphone's new facility there.. 4) No one would hammer you for modding a "Cheapie", that's what they're for... But I own an excellent MIK Casino that is no cheapie in my estimation.. 5) Do you play, or are these just for decoration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whammerjammer Posted March 25, 2008 Author Share Posted March 25, 2008 Thanks LERXST! Bass is my passion. I'm not an accomplished guitar player by any means but I strummastrumma a little. I will say the Casino is just a blast to play and hold. Very friendly. I thought about sandpaper, but was worried about debris falling inside. Should I do it upside down? I don't want to take the whole thing apart (yet). Also, I don't know what grit to start with. I want to be careful not to over sand and ruin some finish on the edges or alter the holes too much. Did the MIK Casinos have black trimmed sound holes? Why do they do this? It's the least "finished" look on the guitar. I DID go to the hardware store. Couldn't find the black plate or washer that would work. Challenging situation because there is not very much thread exposed on the switch, so a washer or plate that has any thickness at all won't fit. Maybe I'll try an electronic supply store next. My fabricated one looks pretty good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Start off with a good 220 grit and finish smooth with 400. I would recommend a good cloth back sandpaper that doesn't disintegrate like the cheap paper types. As far as getting the sanding dust out of the guitar, remove the bridge pickup and use a vacumn hose attachment with a plastic tube taped to it. The black switch washer can be bought at most guitar parts stores. Stew-Mac sell them for 1.52 but the cost of shipping and handling will probably be a lot more. How badly do you need that Rythmn/Treble printing on it? "Up" is Neck and "down" is Bridge. I find that those switch plates kinda cheesy with the printing, and have covered mine up with a black ebony ring of my own design, which protects the switch and looks a bit like the rubber switch mounts on the Broadway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RotcanX Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Eeeesh.... I dunno, man. That's end grain, pal, which means the black paint may have soaked in pretty far. I'm worried that you'll have to sand down a lot of wood to make it disappear, which would not be a good thing. If I were you I'd live with it; chances are you're just going to end up making it look a lot worse than it does now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Eeeesh.... I dunno' date=' man. That's [i']end grain[/i], pal, which means the black paint may have soaked in pretty far. I'm worried that you'll have to sand down a lot of wood to make it disappear, which would not be a good thing. If I were you I'd live with it; chances are you're just going to end up making it look a lot worse than it does now. Yes, it's endgrain, but more than likely a plywood endgrain. I would think that the entire guitar is finished in Natural then the inside of the f-holes painted after. If it were me and it bothered me that much, I'd still go for it and if I couldn't get all of the black paint off completely, I mix up some acrylic paints (ie: raw sienna, and some white ) and come up with a colour combo that closely resembles the shade of the top. Worth a try. You can always paint it black!...wait..isn't that a Stones's hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whammerjammer Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 All good stuff to consider! I'll test and inconspicuous area before I go crazy. I read somewhere recently ("Beatles Gear" I think) that one of the Beatles "sanded" guitars had some residual blue paint in the f-holes, so maybe there is something to the end grain thing. I'll report back... happy or in tears! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 All good stuff to consider! I'll test and inconspicuous area before I go crazy. I read somewhere recently ("Beatles Gear" I think) that one of the Beatles "sanded" guitars had some residual blue paint in the f-holes' date=' so maybe there is something to the end grain thing. I'll report back... happy or in tears![/quote'] The "blue residual paint" was in the sound hole of Lennon's Gibson J-160E which at one point had a blue psychedelic paint job by the Dutch (scam) artists "The Fool" that Lennon later had sanded off c.1968. I'm not certain what result sanding the "F" hole paint off will have. Remember, it was put there for a reason and the plywood used for the Asian versions is different from the plywood that was used for the Kalamazoo versions so there's probably some aesthetic issues that will arise. The scarf-joined neck is one of the reason your Casino was only $600. One piece necks are a premium feature reserved for higher end guitars. Good luck ...and Al's your uncle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whammerjammer Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 Good point, Icono. I think I'll just sit back and enjoy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 hi uncle al... "The scarf-joined neck is one of the reason your Casino was only $600. One piece necks are a premium feature reserved for higher end guitars." my MIK LH casino appears to have a one piece neck, no visible scarf joints either below or within the headstock...what do you think? is that possible? also, whammerjammer, for a more practical mod, some have gone with the longer 6 inch trapeze tailpiece...apparently the MIC / MIK have cheaper 5.5" versions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 hi uncle al... "The scarf-joined neck is one of the reason your Casino was only $600. One piece necks are a premium feature reserved for higher end guitars." my MIK LH casino appears to have a one piece neck' date=' no visible scarf joints either below or within the headstock...what do you think? is that possible? also, whammerjammer, for a more practical mod, some have gone with the longer 6 inch trapeze tailpiece...apparently the MIC / MIK have cheaper 5.5" versions[/quote'] I have seen current Casinos without the headstock scarf and a very well-concealed scarf joint at the heel so yours could be one of these. I also seem to recall someone saying (here or elsewhere? ) that the Casinos with maple necks are one piece and the mahogany-necked ones are multi-piece but I don't know that for certain...it's just something I have in my head without any clue of where it came from. Strangely, I was always under the impression that the Terada-made Casinos (1987-1997) had maple necks but I have an early 90's Terada-made Casino with a one piece mahogany neck so I'm not sure anything is carved in stone with these guitars. ...and Al's your uncle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whammerjammer Posted March 26, 2008 Author Share Posted March 26, 2008 Looks like 2-piece mahogany to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst1281733995 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 I have seen current Casinos without the headstock scarf and a very well-concealed scarf joint at the heel so yours could be one of these. I also seem to recall someone saying (here or elsewhere? ) that the Casinos with maple necks are one piece and the mahogany-necked ones are multi-piece but I don't know that for certain...it's just something I have in my head without any clue of where it came from. Strangely' date=' I was always under the impression that the Terada-made Casinos (1987-1997) had maple necks but I have an early 90's Terada-made Casino with a one piece mahogany neck so I'm not sure anything is carved in stone with these guitars. ...and Al's your uncle.[/quote'] This subject came up in another thread a while back, which made me take a closer look at the neck on my Casino, ('06 Saein) and if there's a scarf joint, I sure as hell can't find it... The grain is completely continuous the entire length of the neck.. Now it doesn't make any sense that mine should not have a scarf joint, but just the same... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 mine is also Saein from 05...grain of the wood can be traced all the way from the top of the headstock to the end of the fretboard...no visible scarf joints, I really think it is one piece...there is a small 1/4" thick piece of wood on the heel of the neck (where the strap button is) which is exactly the same width as the binding (matches up perfectly)...but the neck itself continues past this into the body and along the fret board with no visible joints...on the slender side, with nice binding, fretboard, and frets Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 This subject came up in another thread a while back' date=' which made me take a closer look at the neck on my Casino, ('06 Saein) and if there's a scarf joint, I sure as hell can't find it... The grain is completely continuous the entire length of the neck.. Now it doesn't make any sense that mine should [i']not[/i] have a scarf joint, but just the same... Which really doesn't surprise me because as I previously stated, the maple necks they use on the Casinos are one piece and your neck appears to be maple. It makes sense because it's probably as cost effective to use a one piece maple neck rather than a multi-piece mystery mahogany neck and ultimately the single piece maple will possibly be a bit superior in some qualities. There could be a well-hidden joint at the heel but being that it's a maple neck it's probably one piece. ...and Al's your uncle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dubstar Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 so uncle al, considering mine is probably maple as well, what are the differences between maple and mahagony and what did / do the originals and lennon / elitists have? (as I go look for my books and catalogs...but your answer will be more interesting) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bluelake07 Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 Did the MIK Casinos have black trimmed sound holes? Why do they do this? It's the least "finished" look on the guitar. My 2003 Korean-made Casino does have the black trimmed sound holes. Why, I dunno. I'd rather have it natural, too, but not enough to spend time messin' with it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2008 Share Posted March 26, 2008 so uncle al' date=' considering mine is probably maple as well, what are the differences between maple and mahagony and what did / do the originals and lennon / elitists have? (as I go look for my books and catalogs...but your answer will be more interesting)[/quote'] The originals (and the Lennon reissue) had one piece Honduras mahogany (Swietenia macrophylla) necks. The Elitists as far as I know have one piece "African mahogany" necks. African mahogany (Khaya ivorensis) really isn't a mahogany but it's close enough in density and appearance to mahogany to be close enough. Maple makes for a nice stable neck and the wood is still available and is still economical where the Honduras mahogany has become rare and quite pricey. The mahogany used in the Elitists is usually the African variety and mahogany used in the standard Epiphone can be any one of a number of species of non-mahogany family woods often to referred to as "Asian" or "Philippine" mahogany or a similar wood species such as nato or sapele. Sonically the maple is going to have a brighter resonance and sonic transference where the mahogany will be warmer sounding. How much of this sonic difference is perceptible is debatable. It does though stand to reason that a one piece neck is going to be more resonant because each glue layer is going to impede that resonance so whatever might be gained from mahogany will be lost by the glue joints. Highly figured maple is susceptible to twists and warps but for the most part maple is very durable and stable. ...and Al's your uncle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carverman Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 The originals (and the Lennon reissue) had one piece Honduras mahogany (Swietenia macrophylla) necks. The Elitists as far as I know have one piece "African mahogany" necks. African mahogany (Khaya ivorensis) really isn't a mahogany but it's close enough in density and appearance to mahogany to be close enough. ...and Al's your uncle. Nice inclusion of latin names there Uncle AL! I have a $2500 classic with a Honduras Mahogany neck, but Honduras Mahogany is rainforest protected now, but still available. It is a very stable wood compared to the African variety, which can have that ribbon stripped grain on plywood (or backs of guitars). I have a piece of African 2x2 and was planning on using it for something, but it bowed/warped on me, so other than carving something out of it eventually,...... it's not too stable unless you know which part of the tree it came from and how it was seasoned. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
claydots Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Lots of Q-Tips and some laquer thinner. Use sparingly and it works quick. My concern would be paint leaching into the grain of the wood. The sandpaper route may be the best way to go. Slow and with patience. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whammerjammer Posted March 27, 2008 Author Share Posted March 27, 2008 Now... I'm thinking of RETURNING my Casino. The 2-piece neck is starting to really bother me. Especially with the two pieces of wood stained to different shades. If there are one-piece necks on MIC Casinos out there... I will find one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lerxst1281733995 Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Which really doesn't surprise me because as I previously stated' date=' the maple necks they use on the Casinos are one piece and your neck appears to be maple. It makes sense because it's probably as cost effective to use a one piece maple neck rather than a multi-piece mystery mahogany neck and ultimately the single piece maple will possibly be a bit superior in some qualities. There could be a well-hidden joint at the heel but being that it's a maple neck it's probably one piece. ...and Al's your uncle.[/quote'] Hmmm.. I made the off hand assumption that the neck was mahogany.. Partly due to Epiphone specs, and partly due to the color (it's actually darker than it looks in that picture)... But now that you mention it, the grain does look pretty tight for mahogany... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 27, 2008 Share Posted March 27, 2008 Hmmm.. I made the off hand assumption that the neck was mahogany.. Partly due to Epiphone specs' date=' and partly due to the color (it's actually darker than it looks in that picture)... But now that you mention it, the grain [i']does[/i] look pretty tight for mahogany... Your neck is definitely maple and you can't go just on color because I'm certain they're staining them to have the same expected (maple) body to(mahogany) neck color contrast regardless whether they use maple or mahogany for the neck. There's also the common misconception that mahogany is red...it can be reddish but it also can be quite blond in color. What's being used and called "mahogany" in the case of the standard Epiphone necks is probably more like nato which can also seem to be more reddish in color when contrasted against a stained maple neck so the color issue between the two woods could be quite confusing. The grain pattern on your neck though is without a doubt maple. ...and Al's your uncle Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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