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Surprised !! Masterbilt matte to full-gloss: not too much effort


iam2afungi

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I wasn't pleased with the matte finish on my DR-500R - though I love the guitar. In defense of matte finishes: I like them generally -- but the one on my masterbilt was really dull and lifeless, particuarly on the side.

 

I read a lot about people who buffed theirs out with T-Cut or someother polish/mild abrasive. Most disscussions highlighted a lot of rubbing effort over many hours or days.

 

I decided to take the plunge and tackle the back on sides (I like the spruce top as it is).

 

I used something called KIT Scratch out from an autobody store. I put a lot on an old cloth diaper and polished the guitar in three sections: the whole back - the top side and the bottom side. I polished with little effort about 15 minutes for each section, keeping the rag well saturated with the compound. I did not apply any effort or use tools.

 

I have to say -- I'm very pleased the results. I'll try to add some pictures -- but in person the gloss looks better. I might give it one more pass to really shine her up.

 

As you would expect -- there is no difference in tone or playbility -- with the exception that brushing a hand or arm across the finish is now "soundless"

 

If anyone has any further suggestions or comments -- I'd love to hear them. For thos os you that are interested in doing this -- but might be afraid of the amount of effort: I'll tell you it wasn't bad -- took less than an hour and I couldn't be more pleased

 

Good luck

 

Dan

 

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did you make sure the remover didnt contain silacone. thats a no no. i know scratch x from maguires works great, but hear recently they added silacone to it. but looks great. i am going to do my sides and back too on my aj500r

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Nice job on the polish.

 

What's wrong with silicone? I mean... I hate the stuff being a painter..it never dries fast enough and paint doesn't like sticking to it...

But.. I was just curious why it's a no-no for guitars?

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Nice job on the polish.

 

What's wrong with silicone? I mean... I hate the stuff being a painter..it never dries fast enough and paint doesn't like sticking to it...

But.. I was just curious why it's a no-no for guitars?

 

Some are saying that if you ever need to repair anything, Re-glue/finish your guitar, it'll be very difficult due to the properties of silicone.

 

I don't know what all the hoopla is either. There are solvents one could use to break it down if needed in the rare case of a repair/refinish.

 

I think all the hype started over on the Acoustic Guitar Forum:

 

http://franksemails.com/pics/brilliant%5Fmath%5Fanswers/

 

 

Anyhoo... I use Mother's on mine with no ill-effects what so ever.....:- 8-[ 8-[

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Nice job on the polish.

 

What's wrong with silicone? I mean... I hate the stuff being a painter..it never dries fast enough and paint doesn't like sticking to it...

But.. I was just curious why it's a no-no for guitars?

 

Silicon is thought to break down and seep through nitrocellulose laquer, which means it could permeate the wood itself, making later refinishing more difficult. As pointed out, a solvent could remove the silicon from the surface laquer, but the concern is that it might not remove all the residual that leeched into the wood itself. Any resprayed laquer could lift or discolor on that spot.

 

I don't know how silicon penetrates or reacts to the poly finish on a Masterbilt guitar, so I'm not sure how much of an issue it is. Maybe there's a chemist among us who knows? I don't think you're quite as likely to have a polyurethane finished guitar refinished, anyway (though you might if the top cracked, or something), as removing the original finish is fairly difficult. Poly is also less prone to scratching and wear than nitro, so there's probably be less need. And, relative to the original price of the guitar, it's proabably not worth it to most (though maybe to a Masterbilt owner!).

 

One of the beauties of the more expensive nitro finishes is that refinsihing and repairing them is relatively easy for an experienced repair person.

 

Red 333

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I wasn't pleased with the matte finish on my DR-500R - though I love the guitar. In defense of matte finishes: I like them generally -- but the one on my masterbilt was really dull and lifeless' date=' particuarly on the side.

 

I read a lot about people who buffed theirs out with T-Cut or someother polish/mild abrasive. Most disscussions highlighted a lot of rubbing effort over many hours or days.

 

I decided to take the plunge and tackle the back on sides (I like the spruce top as it is).

 

I used something called KIT Scratch out from an autobody store. I put a lot on an old cloth diaper and polished the guitar in three sections: the whole back - the top side and the bottom side. I polished with little effort about 15 minutes for each section, keeping the rag well saturated with the compound. I did not apply any effort or use tools.

 

I have to say -- I'm very pleased the results. I'll try to add some pictures -- but in person the gloss looks better. I might give it one more pass to really shine her up.

 

As you would expect -- there is no difference in tone or playbility -- with the exception that brushing a hand or arm across the finish is now "soundless"

 

If anyone has any further suggestions or comments -- I'd love to hear them. For thos os you that are interested in doing this -- but might be afraid of the amount of effort: I'll tell you it wasn't bad -- took less than an hour and I couldn't be more pleased

 

Good luck

 

Dan

 

[/quote']

 

Congratulations. You've managed to remove probably half, if not more of the protective finish on your guitar to achieve a temporary gloss finish. I say "temporary" because it is now only a matter of time before your guitar will dull out again as what's left of the original finish is worn away through use and environmental exposure and what now looks like a nice even gloss will in time reveal itself to be a very splotchy, uneven wearing away of the finish. The matte finishes on these guitars are extremely thin and were not intended to be rubbed out to gloss. They are not the usual 1/4" thick (yes, I exaggerate) polyurethane/polyester finishes used on a lot of cheaper guitars. It's a thin, catalyzed lacquer-type finish that's used because it is protective while being economical and cost-effective since the usual buff out processes and the issues that come with gloss finishes have been eliminated. I can't say for Epiphone but on lower end Martins and Taylors that use a similar finish you can kiss your warranty goodbye by buffing away the finish...which is what you're doing. I hate the matte finishes used on the Masterbilts (and other brands as well) and it's probably one of the greatest hurdles (that and the fact they're made in China) that have kept me from having any interest in them but they are what they are and the matte finishes were not intended to be buffed to a gloss. You are of course free to do whatever you wish with your guitars but rubbing away the protective finish for a temporary shine when it was never intended doesn't seem to me to be the brightest of moves. I am curious what these guitars that have been buffed out will look like in a few years but I don't think it's going to be pleasant. The reason silicon shouldn't be used is, as it's already been stated, that it doesn't dry but gets absorbed into the wood which makes any future refinishing or repairs to the finish impossible since the finish will never take where the silicon is present. Good luck, kids.

 

...and Al's your uncle.

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Congratulations. You've managed to remove probably half' date=' if not more of the protective finish on your guitar to achieve a temporary gloss finish. I say "temporary" because it is now only a matter of time before your guitar will dull out again as what's left of the original finish is worn away through use and environmental exposure and what now looks like a nice even gloss will in time reveal itself to be a very splotchy, uneven wearing away of the finish. The matte finishes on these guitars are extremely thin and were not intended to be rubbed out to gloss. They are not the usual 1/4" thick (yes, I exaggerate) polyurethane/polyester finishes used on a lot of cheaper guitars. It's a thin, catalyzed lacquer-type finish that's used because it is protective while being economical and cost-effective since the usual buff out processes and the issues that come with gloss finishes have been eliminated. I can't say for Epiphone but on lower end Martins and Taylors that use a similar finish you can kiss your warranty goodbye by buffing away the finish...which is what you're doing. I hate the matte finishes used on the Masterbilts (and other brands as well) and it's probably one of the greatest hurdles (that and the fact they're made in China) that have kept me from having any interest in them but they are what they are and the matte finishes were not intended to be buffed to a gloss. You are of course free to do whatever you wish with your guitars but rubbing away the protective finish for a temporary shine when it was never intended doesn't seem to me to be the brightest of moves. I am curious what these guitars that have been buffed out will look like in a few years but I don't think it's going to be pleasant. The reason silicon shouldn't be used is, as it's already been stated, that it doesn't dry but gets absorbed into the wood which makes any future refinishing or repairs to the finish impossible since the finish will never take where the silicon is present. Good luck, kids.

 

...and Al's your uncle.[/quote']

 

Could it be your blowing smoke? You said you don't know anything about these. You do, however know about the Martins....These aren't Martins....They're Chinese Epi's I doubt they used anything but Poly on these, matter of fact I know without a doubt its a poly finish...I could smell it when I bored out my tail block to make way for a transducer.

Yes I actually sanded the little area around the hole, it ain't lacquer or a derivative, its POLY.

 

I say, polish away.... go ahead kids, have fun, make 'em shine!!! Again, these are "ONLY" Chinese Epis...who cares what they're gonna be like 3,4,5 years on.... ??!?!? These aren't 'heirloom' guitars anyway.

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I say' date=' polish away.... go ahead kids, have fun, make 'em shine!!! Again, these are "ONLY" Chinese Epis...who cares what they're gonna be like 3,4,5 years on.... ??!?!? These aren't 'heirloom' guitars anyway.

[/quote']

 

I don't know, I think my EF-500RVS sounds incredibly good regardless the price I paid for it and its Chinese origin. And the tone is getting better with time.

I personally want to to take good care of my guitar.

I was tempted to polish the guitar. Even though I find the satin top to look great, it's the back and sides which bother me a little. I contacted two sources:

- Epiphone Service in Europe: they advised me not to do it (but that's expected, they couldn't do otherwise)

- a local luthier who actually confirmed that by polishing the guitar I would have made the finishing thinner, although he just mentioned it would be more exposed to scratches and not that the look would deteriorate in time.

I decided to leave as it is.

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I don't know' date=' I think my EF-500RVS sounds incredibly good regardless the price I paid for it and its Chinese origin. And the tone is getting better with time.

I personally want to to take good care of my guitar.

I was tempted to polish the guitar. Even though I find the satin top to look great, it's the back and sides which bother me a little. I contacted two sources:

- Epiphone Service in Europe: they advised me not to do it (but that's expected, they couldn't do otherwise)

- a local luthier who actually confirmed that by polishing the guitar I would have made the finishing thinner, although he just mentioned it would be more exposed to scratches and not that the look would deteriorate in time.

I decided to leave as it is. [/quote']

 

Well yeah right.

Don't get me wrong, I love my MasterBilt. One of the "Smartest" buys I've ever made and I'll buy another one here before the year is out.

 

I treat all my "GITS" with the utmost care.

 

But it IS what it IS!! A chinese made box of wood!!

 

As far as polishing, when you do, you're taking off such a tiny fractional portion of the layer, especially if done by hand.

 

I've polished the sides and back of my AJ500RC. I love seeing the Rosewood through a clear finish, not matte. I didn't touch the top, however, those of you that don't polish, you will soon see a 'natural' polishing effect on the 'wear' spots. On the back and where your arm comes up over the top of the body...I'm already seeing it on mine.

 

At the end of the day, To each his own.... if you want to polish, go for it. It won't hurt a thing!!

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Could it be your blowing smoke? You said you don't know anything about these. You do' date=' however know about the Martins....These aren't Martins....They're Chinese Epi's I doubt they used anything but Poly on these, matter of fact I know without a doubt its a poly finish...I could smell it when I bored out my tail block to make way for a transducer.

Yes I actually sanded the little area around the hole, it ain't lacquer or a derivative, its POLY.

 

I say, polish away.... go ahead kids, have fun, make 'em shine!!! Again, these are "ONLY" Chinese Epis...who cares what they're gonna be like 3,4,5 years on.... ??!?!? These aren't 'heirloom' guitars anyway.

[/quote']

 

Well then, by all means shine that finish right away. It doesn't matter one iota to me. I actually thought I was offering some valid advice but if you think you know more than I do then have at it. But when did I say I didn't know anything about these guitars? Do you even know what a catalyzed lacquer finish is? Didn't think so. Have fun and good luck. ....and whether they used poly or whatever, the finish is very thin. Do you think it makes any sense to buff away what little finish there is regardless where the guitar is made just to pretend that you have a gloss finish when it was never intended to be a gloss finish? Did your parents have any kids that survived?

...and Al's your uncle.

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Well then' date=' by all means shine that finish right away. It doesn't matter one iota to me. I actually thought I was offering some valid advice but if you think you know more than I do then have at it. But when did I say I didn't know anything about these guitars? Do you even know what a catalyzed lacquer finish is? Didn't think so. Have fun and good luck. ....and whether they used poly or whatever, the finish is very thin. Do you think it makes any sense to buff away what little finish there is regardless where the guitar is made just to pretend that you have a gloss finish when it was never intended to be a gloss finish? Did your parents have any kids that survived?

...and Al's your uncle.[/quote']

 

Yup, Al is my uncle.

 

And no need to get personal....but since you went there.

 

Its HACKS like you that cause all this unfounded "STIR" and "Hype" about buffing out a finish.

 

The only reason, the ONLY Reason they don't buff these in the factory is cost......plain and simple.

 

Just because some AMERICAN built guitar with a Matte finish means its a thinner finish doesn't mean these are. Yes, you are right......in regards to American made guitars and if we were talking Higher End "Handbuilt" guitars I would agree with you 100 percent, but we're not.

 

 

The Chinese workers don't give a crap how Martins/S.Cruz/Taylor/Breedlove's are made here in the states. They get their spray guns going and they lay it on. They don't care....they just spray as many as they can in a given day or working shift. They probably get paid by the number of guitars they can process during the day/week of their given workstations.

 

Again, don't get me wrong. I love the MB line, for many reasons mainly sound, afford ability and bang for the buck value. What I don't like are that they're Chinese made....but what in this world isn't anymore?

 

 

Like I said... To each his own, and if you prove me wrong down the road in few years....oh-well.

I still don't think anyone's doing harm by polishing their MB's. <Shrug>

 

and yeah, AL is my uncle and he can beat up your uncle......#-o :- :- :- :- :-

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Congratulations. You've managed to remove probably half' date=' if not more of the protective finish on your guitar to achieve a temporary gloss finish. I say "temporary" because it is now only a matter of time before your guitar will dull out again as what's left of the original finish is worn away through use and environmental exposure and what now looks like a nice even gloss will in time reveal itself to be a very splotchy, uneven wearing away of the finish. The matte finishes on these guitars are extremely thin and were not intended to be rubbed out to gloss. They are not the usual 1/4" thick (yes, I exaggerate) polyurethane/polyester finishes used on a lot of cheaper guitars. It's a thin, catalyzed lacquer-type finish that's used because it is protective while being economical and cost-effective since the usual buff out processes and the issues that come with gloss finishes have been eliminated. I can't say for Epiphone but on lower end Martins and Taylors that use a similar finish you can kiss your warranty goodbye by buffing away the finish...which is what you're doing. I hate the matte finishes used on the Masterbilts (and other brands as well) and it's probably one of the greatest hurdles (that and the fact they're made in China) that have kept me from having any interest in them but they are what they are and the matte finishes were not intended to be buffed to a gloss. You are of course free to do whatever you wish with your guitars but rubbing away the protective finish for a temporary shine when it was never intended doesn't seem to me to be the brightest of moves. I am curious what these guitars that have been buffed out will look like in a few years but I don't think it's going to be pleasant. The reason silicon shouldn't be used is, as it's already been stated, that it doesn't dry but gets absorbed into the wood which makes any future refinishing or repairs to the finish impossible since the finish will never take where the silicon is present. Good luck, kids.

 

...and Al's your uncle.[/quote'] this guy doesnt have a idea what he is talking about. taylor, mratin,larrivee all will tell you privately that glossing does not harm anything. nice try thou.lol satin is very thin. but as long as you dont go thru the finish[and without electric polisher not going to do it] the finish wont wear out.

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this guy doesnt have a idea what he is talking about. taylor' date=' mratin,larrivee all will tell you privately that glossing does not harm anything. nice try thou.lol satin is very thin. but as long as you dont go thru the finish[and without electric polisher not going to do it'] the finish wont wear out.

 

Knock yourself out, sport, shine that baby raw and I'm certain we'll come to see who knows what he's talking about... and please tell me why will these companies would tell you something privately that they quite public reject as having a negative effect on the finish and the guitar? ... and I can tell you what Martin's response would be if you were to ask their customer service for an opinion on buffing out thin matte finishes. I know these aren't Martins but what do you think Epiphone would say about it...or Taylor or Larrivee? I know what I think they'd say, in fact I more than think, I know what they would say. That they adamantly do not recommend it because it's not a finish that's intended to be polished to a gloss shine...and that's probably almost verbatim... You know what else I think? I think you did a really stupid move polishing that finish and you know it was a dumb move and now this is the best you can do to try and validate your moment of idiocy but don't let it bother you too much, according to your pal they're just cheap, Chinese, toss away junk anyway so polish away...sheesh...that was quite a response..You two can't really believe you've done anything beneficial by removing a layer of already very thin finish can you? Astonishing...Whatever...I have an idea. Why don't we ask Epiphone customer service for their official position regarding the rubbing out of those matte finishes on the Masterbilt guitars? Do you want to guess what they're going to say?

 

...and Al's your uncle.

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I polished my AJ500R to a high shine and loved the look of it. I really don't think that much, if any finish is being removed, certainly not enough to cause alarm.

 

Here's some pics of mine (although it's no longer in my possession)...

 

Masterbilt017333x500.jpgMasterbilt024500x333.jpg

 

Masterbilt023500x333.jpgMasterbilt020500x333.jpg

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