Changes in the Masterbilt guitars

[Grandpa Larry]

I started reading and posting to this forum a couple of weeks ago, when I first got my AJ500MVS. Since that time, I've discovered that my guitar differs from older versions of the same model in a couple of respects. Most obvious is that Epi no longer furnishes the nice case that was standard when the Masterbilts were introduced.

 

I also noticed that there's no binding on the headstock as on earlier versions. Someone also mentioned that they're not using bone on the nut and saddle. I don't know if it's true because I can't tell what the ones on my AJ are made of.

 

Does anyone know of other differences? I guess I can't complain too much. I've been playing 40+ years During that span I've had some great guitars: Gibsons, Gurians, Guilds, but I don't believe I've ever owned a better sounding dred.

[Red 333]

You are right about the case, it's no longer provided.

 

Headstock binding (to my knowledge) was never on the AJ500M or DR500M; it was only on rosewood models (AJ500R and DR 500R), and of course the fancier RA models, which are bedecked with abalone.

 

I don't know what the situation is with the nuts and saddles. I've recently seen Masterbilts with both bone nuts and saddles and some that have either nuts or compensated saddles or both that do not look bone. However, it's sometimes hard to tell without getting the nut or saddle off the guitar and looking at the bottom or sanding it.

 

Other changes over the last year or so has been the appearance of the gloss tops. I notice that the headstock inlay in these models does sot seem as irredescent as earlier models, either. The bursts on the gloss tops are also less a teardrop, Gibson stlye burst, but one that follows the outline of the body, like a '60s Epiphone.

 

Red 333

[Red 333]

I went into a Guitar Center yesterday and saw a couple of the new gloss top Masterbilts, an AJ500M and a DR500M. I was extremely disheartened. The rims, neck, and back were of generic quailty, and stained very dark as to obscure the relative lack of grain and figure. In this respect, the Masterbilts looked no different from the $99 AJ100 (or whatever) in the same acoustic room. Previously, Masterbilts had beautifully grained wood, and were finished to show it off its advantage.

 

The bridge and fretboard looked more open grained and less dense than before. Workmanship inside the guitar looked sloppier. As I said above, the stick pin inlay and logo looked lifeless. <SIGH>> I guess more cost cutting is underway to keep the guitars close to their present price point. I could accept the elimination of the case, but now it seems Epiphone is eliminating or cheapening some essential elements that made the Masterbilts such nice guitars in the first place. Overall, they looked very chintzy.

 

I just bought a new 12-fret AJ500RC a few weeks ago, and it's an incredible guitar in both looks and sound. Nothing I know of near its price point can touch it as a finger style instrument. I also have an AJ500M and R and DR500M that are very worthy instruments. Each rivals the tone and playability of my much more expensive guitars, and each is made with really beautiful tonewoods. Unfortunately, the new crop of Masterbilts seems only distantly related to those.

 

I hope what I saw was the exception to the rule. I used to reccomend Masterbilts enthusiasticaly to any one looking for a low to mid-priced guitar. Though the new ones seem to play and sound OK, I would have trouble doing that today.

 

Red 333

[TommyK]

Let your dog smell the nut. If he tries to bite it, it's bone.

 

Seriously, some nuts have a faint grain to them, like wood grain that can be seen on the end of the nut. It takes a sharp eye or magnifying glass and maybe vary the lighting.

 

Might also try shining a light through the saddle and nut, fiberoptic style. A pen light or smaller light source shined into one end and shading the other end may reveal grain. Take it all into a dark room. Maybe shine the light into the top of the nut as well may get enough light into the nut to light up the end(s). If it's one homogenous shade of ivoroid, it's probably plastic or micarta or other man-made material. There's a plethora of super bright LED flashlights on the market that might do the trick. Use black electrical tape to cover the lens, all but a small hole to use.

 

Actually, I have heard of an incidence of a cat finding a bone saddle to be rather tasty. No word on the disposition of the cat, though.

[Grandpa Larry]

Since I've only owned my AJ500MVS a few weeks, and haven't owned any others, it's hard for me to compare my axe with earlier versions. I just received the latest Musicians Friend catalog in the mail yesterday, and it has a full page spread on them. This page describes the guitars as being assembled "using authentic hot hide glue." It also statrs: "The saddle is compensated bone, as is the nut." I'm assuming they got up to date info.

 

I also have to say, in absolute fairness, that my axe sounds astoundingly good. It's a good as anything I've ever owned, and that includes some pretty nice guitars over the past 40 years.

 

BTW, where did you get your AJ500RC? I'd love to buy one of those. The only ones I've seen in stock lately have been scratch n dents at MF and AMS.

[Red 333]

BTW' date=' where did you get your AJ500RC? I'd love to buy one of those. The only ones I've seen in stock lately have been scratch n dents at MF and AMS.[/quote']

 

Zzounds (which is the same as AMS and Same Day Music).

 

I checked the site every day for a couple of months, and lo and behold, one morning there were two in stock. I bought one, and then emailed YerDugliness about the other, since he had been looking for something like a year. Unfortuantely, it was gone before he got my email.

 

As I said, it's extremely well crafted.

 

And LOUD! Man, it puts out a lot of volume. The tone is gorgeous, too. It' a real shame these are discontinued. I consider myself very fortunate to have one.

 

Red 333

[Red 333]

Let your dog smell the nut. If he tries to bite it' date=' it's bone.

 

[/quote']

 

That's funny!

 

The nuts on the two new Masterbilts I saw in the GC were very uniform in color, with no tell-tell transluscent spots or texture at the end of the nut that I could see. No little chips at the fret board edge, which you sometimes see, too. Of course, none of that means anything by itself, as some bone nuts are finished to an exceptional smoothness and are solidly opaque, but it was too dark in the acoustic room to see anything else, which is why I said I wasn't sure.

 

It's interesting that the MF catalog specifies bone nut and saddle, because they modified their description over a year ago, and now don't specify. In fact, I don't think any of the Internet retailers currently say if the nut or saddle is bone.

 

How well the nut is cut and slotted is just as important than what it's made of. Tusq nuts can be excellent. My McCartney Texan has a period correct corrian nut (and a Tusq saddle) and it sounds excellent.

 

Red 333

[YerDugliness]

Let your dog smell the nut. If he tries to bite it' date=' it's bone.

[/quote']

 

Here's an easier way--hold a sewing needle or pin with a pair of hemostats or pliers and heat it till it glows red. Then stick the tip of the hot pin/needle against the nut or saddle--if they are made of bone, the pin won't have a significant effect (maybe a slight odor of burning bone); if they are plastic the pin's point will burn into the piece.

 

I'd suggest you start with the saddle, if it is plastic it needs to be replaced, anyway ! You can decide about the nut later, some believe they have no effect on tone, I do believe they make a difference when playing chords with open strings.....but, as an old friend has told me, opinions are like noses, we all have one! I change out all my guitar's nuts (note how carefully I phrased that?) for bone or ivory for a different reason--constant pressure and movement in the nut slot from our wound strings is like stroking that groove with a file, it eventually wears the plastic away and messes with the action. Bone or Ivory are pretty much an investment that will last a lifetime, they are higher on the Rockwell hardness scale than the metal our strings' windings are made of, so they don't wear down. So, there you have it !

 

Good to see everyone else GASing for one of my beloved AJ500RC's, too--we can all cry on each other's shoulders as the smallest violin in the world plays a sad song for us !

 

Actually, I hate to bring false hope, and there's "hope" that might not happen (not a bad pun, eh?). I sent my SW rep a link to Epi's webpage for the AJ500RC, pointing out the VERY difficult to miss letters that spell out ever so clearly in plain old English "D I S C O N T I N U E D" above the beautiful picture of that gorgeous honey-maple colored cedar top, the sinuous lines of those sloped shoulders, the curvaceous :- ......oh, hey, sorry guys, I got carried away....anyway, I asked him to have SW's buyers contact their Epi reps and bring this new development to their attention, asking for some honesty (I mean, after all, if Washington can "change", why can't Gibson/Epi??) regarding the future for me and my coveted AJ500RC . Here's what he had to say:

 

"Hi Doug,

 

I heard back from Epiphone (thourgh my purchasing manager), they have confirmed

that we will be getting your AJ, although not as soon as we'd like. Since the

date has moved so many times I won't promise it will be here by the end of the

year, but we're still expecting it at the end of December."

 

He's very good about keeping in touch with me, and believe me, I'll post whatever happens either way--if Gibby/Epi follow their historical pattern, I'll be blasting them here, and likewise if I get the call that the AJ500RC has been received , I'll post that good news here so you can all start the feeding frenzy, just keep it a secret among us guys here on this forum, OK?

 

Dugly

[TommyK]

 

...above the beautiful picture of that gorgeous honey-maple colored cedar top' date=' the sinuous lines of those sloped shoulders, the curvaceous ......oh, hey, sorry guys, I got carried away.......

 

's all right, Dugly. Applying female attributes to guit tars a symptom of GAS. Holler bodied guit tars have female spirits and, in deed have a female form. We've all been there... most of us have never left. No apologies necessary here.

[dqami]

I just picked up a 2005 Dr-500RNS and was wondering about the nut & saddle as they felt like plastic to me. I tried the needle test and it stuck. I then tried it on a bone saddle I bought from Sam Ash and it stuck also. Isn't bone not supposed to stick???

[theDeuce]

I just picked up a 2005 Dr-500RNS and was wondering about the nut & saddle as they felt like plastic to me. I tried the needle test and it stuck. I then tried it on a bone saddle I bought from Sam Ash and it stuck also. Isn't bone not supposed to stick???

 

The hot tipped needle would melt plastic and make a hole, much like the cliche "hot knife through butter". Bone wouldn't melt and the pin would stick it rather than melt it.

 

I don't think in 2005 there was much question as to MBs having bone or plastic saddles. I think 2007 and later has been questioned. So if you bought a new '05 guitar it is most likely to have bone.

 

Someone mentioned letting a dog smell it, and see if he wanted to chew it. Frankly, when I sanded down my bone saddle I could smell that it was bone. Never noticed that while sanding plastic saddles. (no, I didn't want to chew it!) :)

[dubstar]

my dog chews everything, including rocks and plastic, so the sniff test wouldn't help me LOL

[CedarTopFan]

Red....

 

From two of your posts....

 

>>>>>I just bought a new 12-fret AJ500RC a few weeks ago, and it's an incredible guitar in both looks and sound. Nothing I know of near its price point can touch it as a finger style instrument.<<<<<

 

>>>>>I checked the site every day for a couple of months, and lo and behold, one morning there were two in stock. I bought one, and then emailed YerDugliness about the other, since he had been looking for something like a year. Unfortuantely, it was gone before he got my email.

 

As I said, it's extremely well crafted.

 

And LOUD! Man, it puts out a lot of volume. The tone is gorgeous, too. It' a real shame these are discontinued. I consider myself very fortunate to have one.<<<<<

 

 

 

I agree 100% about the 12 fret AJ500RC. I picked one up about a year or so ago. I was literally STUNNED when I played it in the guitar shop. Absolutely FLOORED by both the volume and the tone. BY FAR AND AWAY the most guitar I have ever seen at that price point.

 

I am completely baffled as to why they would discontinue it.

 

CTF

[curlyq]

I a new aj-500m owner...wow!

 

Anyway, can I get one of the masterbilt hard gigbags anywhere? I saw advertisements for a case for the dread models on Sweetwater and I'm thinking it's a different case, but maybe not.

 

I'll test the nut and saddle but they look very opaque, white and plastic to me. Any chance I can get the bone replacements Epi?

 

Thanks

 

L.

 

Martin 00016-sgt

Alvarez aj60s-12

Epiphone aj500m

Hohner hg-04

Guild starfireII bass

[YerDugliness]

 

Anyway' date=' can I get one of the masterbilt hard gigbags anywhere? I saw advertisements for a case for the dread models on Sweetwater and I'm thinking it's a different case, but maybe not.

[/quote']

 

I recently saw an EF500R and it came with the hard gigbag with "Masterbilt" clearly on the outside of the case, a nice hard gigbag with a hygrometer on the inside, a nice touch! The owner said she had purchased it at a B&M, perhaps it was NOS and had originally included the gigbag...she did say she did not have to purchase it separately. Sometimes the B&M's will give away a case in celebration of wrestling your business away from the internet sellers.

 

My AJ500RC shipped yesterday from Sweeetwater and I had to purchase a case for it, don't know if it will be specifically the one with the Masterbilt logo on it or not. The AJ500RC is a "12-fretter" which means the body is extended all the way up to the 12th fret rather than joining the neck at the 14th fret, so my case might well have needed to be from a different manufacturer. I'll let you know when it gets here next week.

 

I already have one guitar with a hard gigbag.....I don't really like it, it was the "case" in which my $3,500 handmade Darren Hippner classical guitar was shipped and the USPS gorillas managed to stack enough on top of the box to create a 6" long crack in the mastergrade redwood top, right next to the trebble end of the bridge. It's at the luthier right now, getting repaired, but I believe a hard-shell case might well have prevented the damage, and an arch-top case would most assuredly have done so.

 

Dugly

[Red 333]

I went into a Guitar Center yesterday and saw a couple of the new gloss top Masterbilts' date=' an AJ500M and a DR500M. I was extremely disheartened. The rims, neck, and back were of generic quailty, and stained very dark as to obscure the relative lack of grain and figure. In this respect, the Masterbilts looked no different from the $99 AJ100 (or whatever) in the same acoustic room. Previously, Masterbilts had beautifully grained wood, and were finished to show it off its advantage.

 

The bridge and fretboard looked more open grained and less dense than before. Workmanship inside the guitar looked sloppier. As I said above, the stick pin inlay and logo looked lifeless. <SIGH>> I guess more cost cutting is underway to keep the guitars close to their present price point. I could accept the elimination of the case, but now it seems Epiphone is eliminating or cheapening some essential elements that made the Masterbilts such nice guitars in the first place. Overall, they looked very chintzy.

 

I just bought a new 12-fret AJ500RC a few weeks ago, and it's an incredible guitar in both looks and sound. Nothing I know of near its price point can touch it as a finger style instrument. I also have an AJ500M and R and DR500M that are very worthy instruments. Each rivals the tone and playability of my much more expensive guitars, and each is made with really beautiful tonewoods. Unfortunately, the new crop of Masterbilts seems only distantly related to those.

 

I hope what I saw was the exception to the rule. I used to reccomend Masterbilts enthusiasticaly to any one looking for a low to mid-priced guitar. Though the new ones seem to play and sound OK, I would have trouble doing that today.

 

Red 333

 

[/quote']

 

Update to my own post: I was in Guitar Center yesterday, and they had two new satin-finished Masterbilts in stock: and AJ500RE and a DR500M. Both, fortunately, looked, played, and sounded like previous years' models. Either these were old stock, or maybe just the gloss models (or a batch of them) seem sub-par to me.

 

The AJ500RC continues to impress. It's a lovely instrument. The slots in the headstock aren't sanded as smoothly as I would have liked, but that's really the only place I wish the workmandship was better. Otherwise it's very well put together. Most important, the sound is killer, and it's probably my easiest playing acoustic (out of 13).

 

I didn't mention this before, but the one I have has different binding than my other Masterbilts. It has lines on it that run lengthwise, maybe to simulate a wood grain pattern. The Eastman archtops I saw at the Arington Guitar show last weekend use what looks like the very same binding. Eastmans are very highly regarded, and are aslo made in China.

 

I do wish the Masterbilts still came with a case, as that was an outstanding feature. My AJ500RC did come with a soundhole humidifier, and using that seems to have elimiated the little squeak I was hearing below the soundhole, from the top flexing so much (I wrote about that in some other post, I think).

 

Anyway, here's hoping that Epiphone continues to maintain the quality of the Masterbilt line. I am not impressed with the Profecy or Slash models I've seen. While it seems that EEpiphone is trying to offer a lot for the money with these models, workmanship is just NOT up to par (and certainly not to Elitist standards, and they aren't much more than a Slash, and some models were even cheaper).

 

Red 333

 

 

 

 

 

Red 333

[wooglins]

I just got a new 2008 AJ-500M and mine for sure has bone nut and saddle. It was easy to tell by shining a led light through it. You can see the grain. It is of decent quality. The inside of the body is messy, but I dont think it affects the longevity or the sound, and you cannot see it without getting a pen light and looking inside at crazy angles.

[Rich]

I also recently bought a new (gloss top) AJ500M. It came with a bone saddle, however I had an issue with it.

 

The top of the saddle goes straight across and has no curve to it, like the curve of the frets and fret board. Even though the guitar top was not dried out or sunken, and the neck relief seemed good, it still had buzzing on the D and G strings on the first three frets.

 

I replaced the original saddle with a graph tech tusq Gibson saddle which has a curve to it and now the guitar plays and sounds great with no buzz.

[lucille64]

My DR500MNA built in November of 2007 at the GR (GREE) Farida plant in China and definitely has a bone saddle and nut.

 

The nut is shaped and slotted to absolute perfection

 

The saddle is compensated and the radius is perfectly shaped. Checked with an accurate radius gauge.

 

The kerfeling is precision cut and glued as well as the thin scalloped bracing and both show absolutely no signs of glue anywhere.

 

The grain of the Mahogany back and sides is tight, straight with no runout. The top has a very tight straight grain and is bookmatched flawlessly.

 

The headstock inlays are very color luminous and it has a gloss finish as well.

 

The fret work is flawless as well.

 

I added the "Gibson style" pickguard and bone string bins

 

In conclusion, I suppose maybe depending on where each particular instrument was built may determine how good the construction was done.

 

I had the same guitar back in 2004 only it had an all satin finish verses my current one with a gloss top and satin back and sides. It also was beautifully constructed as well and I sold it almost right away because

 

I was a fool who thought headstock vanity was important, That was a huge mistake but luckily I found this one that I WILL NEVER part ways with.

 

I know that Farida makes some very nice instruments with their name on the headstock.

 

 

 

[cliffenstein]

Beauteeeeful!

[dReit1]

Since I've only owned my AJ500MVS a few weeks, and haven't owned any others, it's hard for me to compare my axe with earlier versions. I just received the latest Musicians Friend catalog in the mail yesterday, and it has a full page spread on them. This page describes the guitars as being assembled "using authentic hot hide glue." It also statrs: "The saddle is compensated bone, as is the nut." I'm assuming they got up to date info.

 

 

A year or so ago I ASSUMED that Epiphone was accurate when they said my new EPI Nighthawk RI would have a ebony fret board. That's what they advertised.

 

But it arrived with a rosewood board. And not a very nice one either!

[milod]

I note that the op filed this initially in 2008 - a long time ago in terms of changes in guitar specs.

 

m

[Red 333]

Those early Masterbilts were very remarkable guitars.

 

Red 333

[lucille64]

Beauteeeeful!

 

 

Thanks JW it sounds and plays just as beautiful as well except I can no longer really play it as you know.

 

I'm looking to obtain a certain DR500RNS that is one of the very first built "loss Leader" models that has it's original soft case and is absolutely mint. I know a guy that has one. It's production date is March of 2004.

 

I also bought that original 60's Texan and gave it to my grandson. I hope he understands what he has in that instrument.

[cliffenstein]

Thanks JW it sounds and plays just as beautiful as well except I can no longer really play it as you know.

 

I'm looking to obtain a certain DR500RNS that is one of the very first built "loss Leader" models that has it's original soft case and is absolutely mint. I know a guy that has one. It's production date is March of 2004.

 

I also bought that original 60's Texan and gave it to my grandson. I hope he understands what he has in that instrument.

 

Way to go, man!